The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on June 14, 2011, 10:24:15 PM
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I'm staying at a hotel on the NW corner of the Twin Cities tonight. This is a place I have stayed at about ten times this year, but there is something new:
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/m58/IMG00001-20110614-2149.jpg)
And this is my standard travel pack:
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/m58/IMG00002-20110614-2152.jpg)
Please excuse the quality, but it is my phone camera.
I asked when I checked in "What's up with the no guns and stuff signs?" Their reply was "We're afraid of violence and shootings." I quietly finished the check in and went about my evening. Wouldn't be bad coming and going to move in and for a supper meeting, but every door has these big blue and white signs held to the glass with silicone (I checked to see how tight they are).
Many are now asking why I stayed? It was a cut rate reservation with a no refund policy, and I would rather carry past the sign than make a scene and lose my $64. However, tomorrow morning there will be a discussion when I check out, and they will understand that for all the times I've been here, the value of quality and price and their service that this is my last visit until those signs come down.
I encourage everyone to pay attention to hotels and online reservation services for this type of thing. I reserve rooms online mostly, and I use a variety of ways. I go direct to the hotel web site, chain site, group sites, and services like Price Line and Travelocity. I have never seen anything about weapons on these sites. I am now making a list of places I need to contact and checking them off as I make it clear they need to include firearms and other weapons along with pets, smoking and sluts! OK, I made the sluts up, but it seemed to fit.
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You ain't going to win. Its a CYA thing. "My sweet little kid (the drug dealer) got shot here and they didn't have a no guns sign. If they did, the murder wouldn't have happened! Can I have 10 million please?" >:( ::) Its just the way it works. A company's lawyer tells them that they aren't doing "due diligence" if they don't have boiler plate signs banning all dangerous objects from large dogs to lighters to guns. Its only if state legislatures say that publicly licenced premises CAN'T exclude guns anymore than they can exclude minorities that motels will acquiesce. And they will do it with a smile. They WANT to be told to accept your business, they just fear suits if they choose to do so. >:(
FQ13
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What they don't know won't hurt you..... ;)
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You ain't going to win. Its a CYA thing. "My sweet little kid (the drug dealer) got shot here and they didn't have a no guns sign. If they did, the murder wouldn't have happened! Can I have 10 million please?" >:( ::) Its just the way it works. A company's lawyer tells them that they aren't doing "due diligence" if they don't have boiler plate signs banning all dangerous objects from large dogs to lighters to guns. Its only if state legislatures say that publicly licenced premises CAN'T exclude guns anymore than they can exclude minorities that motels will acquiesce. And they will do it with a smile. They WANT to be told to accept your business, they just fear suits if they choose to do so. >:(
FQ13
You're missing his point, FQ. He's not so much demanding that the signs come down as telling them that, while he respects their right to post any sign they want, they'll need to respect his right to spend his money elsewhere.
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Here in Ohio, when our CCW law was passed and provided for merchants to post their place of business as "gun free", the Buckeye Firearms Association (http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/) created and made available business type cards telling merchants of the business they were losing due to the posting. Gun owners did a good job of handing them out and many businesses removed the signs after receiving the cards. Don't come across many places other than banks posted any more.
Here is a link to the card
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/publicfiles/pdf/NGNM-card.pdf
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I also ask that you post the name/address of the place so that I know which one you are talking about. I travel there frequently too, and I want to know. I have not seen those signs at any of the places I have stayed of late.
-Bidah
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I also ask that you post the name/address of the place so that I know which one you are talking about. I travel there frequently too, and I want to know. I have not seen those signs at any of the places I have stayed of late.
-Bidah
Ramada
6900 Lakeland Avenue North
Brooklyn Park, MN 55428
http://www.ramada.com/Ramada/control/Booking/check_avail?areaCode=&brandCode=RA,DI,BU,MT,HJ,SE,KG,TL,WG,WY,BH&searchWithinMiles=50&areaType=3&destination=Brooklyn%20Park,%20Minnesota,%20UNITED%20STATES&state=Minnesota&country=UNITED%20STATES&checkInDate=04/23&numberAdults=1&numberRooms=1&checkOutDate=04/24&numberChildren=0&numberBigChildren=0&rate=000&useWRPoints=false&corporateCode=&variant=&id=13026&propBrandId=RA&force_nostay=false&tab=tab1 (http://www.ramada.com/Ramada/control/Booking/check_avail?areaCode=&brandCode=RA,DI,BU,MT,HJ,SE,KG,TL,WG,WY,BH&searchWithinMiles=50&areaType=3&destination=Brooklyn%20Park,%20Minnesota,%20UNITED%20STATES&state=Minnesota&country=UNITED%20STATES&checkInDate=04/23&numberAdults=1&numberRooms=1&checkOutDate=04/24&numberChildren=0&numberBigChildren=0&rate=000&useWRPoints=false&corporateCode=&variant=&id=13026&propBrandId=RA&force_nostay=false&tab=tab1)
NO! I do not pay those rates they post. I've been averaging $45 a night here, but that is no more.
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You ain't going to win. Its a CYA thing. "My sweet little kid (the drug dealer) got shot here and they didn't have a no guns sign. If they did, the murder wouldn't have happened! Can I have 10 million please?" >:( ::) Its just the way it works. A company's lawyer tells them that they aren't doing "due diligence" if they don't have boiler plate signs banning all dangerous objects from large dogs to lighters to guns. Its only if state legislatures say that publicly licenced premises CAN'T exclude guns anymore than they can exclude minorities that motels will acquiesce. And they will do it with a smile. They WANT to be told to accept your business, they just fear suits if they choose to do so. >:(
FQ13
FQ,
This is about the right to make business decisions by both parties:
They have the right to tell me that I can not be armed;
I have the right to not patronize them;
I have the responsibility to live up to the terms of agreement I sign when I register;
They have the responsibility to fully disclose the terms.
They did not fully disclose their terms, and gun free is not just an understood like not participating in drug trafficing or prostitution, so I was deceived as I entered a contract to do business with them.
Phone calls almost complete, so it is off to take care of a couple tasks in the office and then International Falls (Frostbite Falls if you are a Rocky and Bullwinkle fan) for tonight.
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I'm all in favor of giving them hell about it. I also regard no gun signs as a waste of perfectly good ink unless they come with a metal detector or a potential jail term (like schools say). Still, my point is simply that corporate bean counters are likely to make the call that the lack of 2A business is offset by potential lawsuits. That's not universally the case obviously as lots of motels make their money from hunters and shooters. Al I was saying is that we need legislation that protects 2A rights wherever you find yourself.
FQ13
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I'm all in favor of giving them hell about it. I also regard no gun signs as a waste of perfectly good ink unless they come with a metal detector or a potential jail term (like schools say). Still, my point is simply that corporate bean counters are likely to make the call that the lack of 2A business is offset by potential lawsuits. That's not universally the case obviously as lots of motels make their money from hunters and shooters. Al I was saying is that we need legislation that protects 2A rights wherever you find yourself.
FQ13
And there we have it. The primary difference between FQ and TAB. ;D
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Well, you've got breaking the rules on that sign pretty well covered... Did you take you take a dog, remove your shirt and shoes and walk barefoot through the lobby to? ;D
If you ever speak with business owners or even their managment IN PRIVATE, you'll hear most of these signs we see are absolutely needed as legal CYA. If some crack head has a shootout in their hotel and kills a little kid, they need to be able to say. "We made it VERY clear nobody is supposed to bring ANY guns here! You can't sue us!"
The signs may well even be an insurance requirement for the hotel to keep their policy or reduced rates! And I wouldn't necessarily blame the insurance agencies on that one either. :-\ People are just to "Sue Happy!", and will blame anyone for anything if they stand to make a nickle off it. :(
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In Ohio, the law made it clear that the owner was not to be liable for damages for posting or not posting the No Gun sigh.
When this was made clear many of the signs came down.
The Anti's had used the liability fear in it's ads.
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In litigation the signs mean nothing. I have a few friends that own banks, and for them it is insurance companies that require it. Insurance companies drank the Gun Free Zone Kool Aide >:(
This hotel is located in North Minneapolis which is just slightly less dangerous than Afghanistan. They have had several community meetings on cleaning things up, and sure they came out of that.
Guy at the desk this morning listened, was very polite, and said he wasn't pleased when the signs went up. I'm not sure if that is true or he was being polite, but he listened and responded. I tried to keep it low because there was another gal checking out beside me and a gentleman sitting about fifteen feet away working on his lap top. However, when I turned to leave the older guy was looking at me ... staring at me.
I will be following up with the manager through either a letter or email.
Solus,
Thanks for the link to the card! I used to have some, but I ran out and have never replaced them.
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In litigation the signs mean nothing. I have a few friends that own banks, and for them it is insurance companies that require it. Insurance companies drank the Gun Free Zone Kool Aide >:(
This hotel is located in North Minneapolis which is just slightly less dangerous than Afghanistan. They have had several community meetings on cleaning things up, and sure they came out of that.
Guy at the desk this morning listened, was very polite, and said he wasn't pleased when the signs went up. I'm not sure if that is true or he was being polite, but he listened and responded. I tried to keep it low because there was another gal checking out beside me and a gentleman sitting about fifteen feet away working on his lap top. However, when I turned to leave the older guy was looking at me ... staring at me.
I will be following up with the manager through either a letter or email.
Solus,
Thanks for the link to the card! I used to have some, but I ran out and have never replaced them.
;D ;D Keep an eye out for guys screaming "ALLALLALALALALALALALA!!!!!" and those roadside bombs! Hate to loose you!
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No kool aid, its simple numbers. Its cheaper to say no guns then it is not too. Something as simple as a ND that hits some one in th leg can cost several hundred thousnad easy. That just in workmens comp, let alone replacing that person/ other bad things that can happen.
How many of you have 1 mil liquid? If you have a ND in a public place you could blow thru that in litterly a matter of a couple days.