The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: BAC on June 15, 2011, 07:59:00 PM
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I took my Gen4 G22 out again today. It's shooting well, but I had one instance of the slide locking open before the magazine was empty (so much for perfection :)). Anyway, I noticed this while cleaning up the brass:
(http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp244/bchiaravalle/2011-06-15185507.jpg)
Is this a normal primer strike for a Glock, or should I be worried? With my recent string of bad luck with firearms, I wouldn't be surprised if something was wrong.
Thanks!
P.S. It is shooting well, and the trigger is smoothing out (or maybe I'm getting used to it).
Here's my target after the first 40 rounds (10 yards, off-hand):
(http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp244/bchiaravalle/2011-06-15183937.jpg)
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See? You should'a gotten a Sig!!!
What? glock-o-PHILES??? Oh, sorry, thought he said glock-o-PHOBES!!!!
Other than that, it sure does not look normal. I'd get it checked out.
And then trade it for a Sig . . . .
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I thought they were called "Glock n Spielers"?
looks like the slide is unlocking early and the firing pin is wiping the primer
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I'd be worried. I've never seen primer strikes that look like that, ever!
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Though this is 9mm, (I didn't feel like digging through the .40 bucket) The one on the left is a Springfied XD and on the right a G17. The rectangular pattern is normal for Glock.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Tr2Kz3py5gc/TflckJSAaDI/AAAAAAAAk9A/h002P_ubfEA/s640/PrimerStrikes-XDvsGlock.jpg)
Do note that both of these were loaded down somewhat from factory ammo. (About 130 PF (grains-1000fps) ) Factory loads may have a more pronounced indentation.
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Alf,
So then I shouldn't worry?
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Alf, what causes this? Does the case push back against the breech face?
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All glocks make primer strikes like that. It's normal for them.
The nice thing about it is that you can identify brass that has been "glocked". Glocks will ruin your brass and you will not get as many reloads out of them.
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The rectangular pattern is normal for Glock.
Yes, it is.
BAC, you are seeing normal Glock firing pin marks.
Look at the firing pin hole - it and the firing pin are NOT round, they are rectangular.
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Indeed. They are nice and deep and even as well (in the sample shown). The gun (FP at least), seems fine. As to the slide locking open? I haave no clue. Did you accidently hit the mag release? Did the round fire before this happened? Was there a partial feed? I've had a RARE FTF, but never had the slide lock. Thats just weird. ???
FQ13
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Indeed. They are nice and deep and even as well (in the sample shown). The gun (FP at least), seems fine. As to the slide locking open? I haave no clue. Did you accidently hit the mag release? Did the round fire before this happened? Was there a partial feed? I've had a RARE FTF, but never had the slide lock. Thats just weird. ???
FQ13
I may have pressed the mag release by accident. I'd like to move it to the other side, being a lefty and all. The round before fired and it was fine afterward. Not going to freak out about it.
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Yes, it is.
BAC, you are seeing normal Glock firing pin marks.
Look at the firing pin hole - it and the firing pin are NOT round, they are rectangular.
Comparing the photos that BAC and Alf provided, it appears that BAC's have more "smearing" of the primer hit, where the hit is not uniform. Alf's single example shows a very uniform hit. In BAC's pictures, one end of the hit appears to pull the primer metal.
Does that fall within the range of "normal" for a Glock?
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Looking at the back of the magazine, there is a protrusion of the follower at the left front of the magazine. It is what operates the Slide Stop Lever when the magazine is empty.
It is very close to the feed ramp, so it does not seem that a round being extracted would be able to yaw enough to operate it. I guess a round being ejected might somehow bounce that way, but that doesn't see likely at all.
It also does not appear that the next round rising in the magazine could get so misaligned that it could operate the lever.
I guess some kind of "inertial recoil" might have cause it, but it would likely be occurring more often if that was the case.
My guess would be that one of your thumbs put pressure on the lever as the gun was recoiling and raised the lever.
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Comparing the photos that BAC and Alf provided, it appears that BAC's have more "smearing" of the primer hit, where the hit is not uniform. Alf's single example shows a very uniform hit. In BAC's pictures, one end of the hit appears to pull the primer metal.
Does that fall within the range of "normal" for a Glock?
It is normal. The striker is a rectangle but it has a high point in the center.
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No expert, but Brian's looking normal to me. Then I'mNOT an expert. He's firing higher pressure, factory .40S&W ammo, while mine was a 9mm that's lower pressure than .40 and then dlownloaded slightly from that. One would expect deeper indentations from the higher pressure round.
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A nice explaination of primer wipe.
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2011/01/dear-lawdog.html
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All 6 of my Glocks give primer strikes that look just like that. It is perfectly normal for a Glock pistol, regardless of caliber or model. Bill T.
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All 6 of my Glocks give primer strikes that look just like that. It is perfectly normal for a Glock pistol, regardless of caliber or model. Bill T.
6 Glocks? 1 for each day of the week, eh? ;D
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My brother's Taurus PT111 has the same type of primer strikes.
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6 Glocks? 1 for each day of the week, eh? ;D
Yes, because glocks are not appropriate for Sunday or church carry. ;D
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The signature is correct for a Glock, however the primers are flowing too much back into the breechface, especially the winchester case appears to have unlocked a little early and wiped the nickel off of the primer and exposed the brass. I would say the ammo is a little hot for the application. This does happen a lot with the .40, high pressure and as much as I love Glocks, I no longer own a .40 except for a Kahr that just shoots too good. My Glock 20 in 10mm does not do this, except with my reloads that are well above saami spec.
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The signature is correct for a Glock, however the primers are flowing too much back into the breechface, especially the winchester case appears to have unlocked a little early and wiped the nickel off of the primer and exposed the brass. I would say the ammo is a little hot for the application. This does happen a lot with the .40, high pressure and as much as I love Glocks, I no longer own a .40 except for a Kahr that just shoots too good. My Glock 20 in 10mm does not do this, except with my reloads that are well above saami spec.
Not to worry, though, right? :-\
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Probably not, but I might try some different ammo, I don't like how much the primer flows into the hole, but chances are your fine with new production, factory ammo. If it were reloads I would definitely back off on the powder charge.
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Probably not, but I might try some different ammo, I don't like how much the primer flows into the hole, but chances are your fine with new production, factory ammo. If it were reloads I would definitely back off on the powder charge.
And "MASTER" Gaston says not to use reloads. Normally, I pay these warnings about as much attention as I do a no gun zone, Yet and still, I've never fed my Glocks a reload and 20 odd years later, I can count my failures with both shoes still on. The Glock is designed for one purpose and one pupose only. It will kill a man from three feet to to thirty yards. Point, click, repeat as necessary. It is not a sporting, artistic or hunting pistol. Its an ugly bit of plastic designed to do an ugly job. My advice BAC, is to practice enough that you can empty a mag into two dessert plates at seven yards inside of ten seconds. Good luck.
FQ13
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Probably not, but I might try some different ammo, I don't like how much the primer flows into the hole, but chances are your fine with new production, factory ammo. If it were reloads I would definitely back off on the powder charge.
It was Federal 180 gr. FMJ FN and Remington HD 180 gr. BJHP. The Federal was bought for a great price. I don't reload but have been saving brass in hopes that one day I will.
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It was Federal 180 gr. FMJ FN and Remington HD 180 gr. BJHP. The Federal was bought for a great price. I don't reload but have been saving brass in hopes that one day I will.
Do not reload for your Glock! Gaston asks two things of you. One, not to use lead bullets., Two, not to use reloads. In return, you get an indestructible minute of bad guy pistol that needs to be cleaned every other year and one that won't break even if you want it to. Its not a match gun, and you need to shoot factory JHPs or hard ball out of it. Accept these two limitations and you have perfection (perfection defined as always going bang and putting 5 in a 4" circle inside of 25 yards). Just my .02.
Seriously BAC, I've been running Glocks for twenty years. They are boringly reliable. They aren't a match grade 1911 by any stretch, but they always go bang and will always put a mag inside of the the ugly bits of a silhouette as fast as I can pull the trigger. No Kool Aide, just a good solid tool that has yet to fail me (and for a reasonable price).
FQ13
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FQ, I don't mean to pick...
"MASTER" Gaston says not to use reloads.
As does any firearm manufacturer. Check out your owners manual for virtually any gun you own.
Its not a match gun
There are many Glock shooters that will take your money if you believe that. Bullseye...yeah, probably. Unless it's been tweaked, then all bets are off.
Run and gun? Not if you shoot Glocks a lot.
The best way to get really good at shooting Glocks? Shoot only Glocks.
Get married to that trigger and you can shoot very, very well.
Yes, I dearly love my 1911s, Smith & Wessons and my Sigs...I carry my Glock. ;)
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As does any firearm manufacturer. Check out your owners manual for virtually any gun you own.
Yep.
But how many of us ever read the manual? ;D ;D ;D
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Yep.
But how many of us ever read the manual? ;D ;D ;D
Ok, I reached down, found that my wedding tackle was still intact, and so I can confidently say that I will read the manual right after I ask for directions while driving. :-[ ;D
FQ12
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Yep.
But how many of us ever read the manual? ;D ;D ;D
I read them but as FQ said, the don't reload part goes out the window.
The first box out of a new rifle will be factory just in case it goes kaboom in the wrong way, but after that all rifles get a steady diet of reloads.
I don't reload for my Glocks. Neither of my Glocks bulge the case on firing that my calipers can find but I don't have 40 dies. I am saving all those cases though.
40 ammo is so easy to fnd and I'm too lazy to reload anything but large magnum handgun ammo.
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Neither of my Glocks bulge the case on firing that my calipers can find
Glocks have an unsupported chamber. The cases will bulge. It's a cumulative effect. You can usually get 2 or 3 reloads (depending on the load) before they become too bad.
A lot of the shooters take the brass that has already been loaded a few times to shoot at matches. That way they can leave it lay and they really aren't losing anything. Gives brass scroungers like me a headache. ;D
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Glocks have an unsupported chamber. The cases will bulge. It's a cumulative effect. You can usually get 2 or 3 reloads (depending on the load) before they become too bad.
A lot of the shooters take the brass that has already been loaded a few times to shoot at matches. That way they can leave it lay and they really aren't losing anything. Gives brass scroungers like me a headache. ;D
Many aftermarket replacement barrels for Glock pistols eliminate that problem. They also deal with lead fouling better than the factory barrel.
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Many aftermarket replacement barrels for Glock pistols eliminate that problem. They also deal with lead fouling better than the factory barrel.
That's one of the things that bothers me about glocks. Just about everyone I know has replaced the barrel. Why don't they just make them with conventional rifling or make it available as an option from the factory?
I pick on glocks but don't have any real problem with them. They are a decent bargain until you factor in the cost of a $70-200 replacement barrel and new trigger.
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Why would you want to replace either? Five and a half pounds with a two stage break so you know exactly when its going to go bang seems about right on an SD gun. As far as the barrel? What is wrong with it? The bullet comes out, goes where I want it to, and has done so thousands of times on three different 9mm Glocks. To me, a guy who modifies a Glock's trigger or barrel is either running in rarefied circles of competition, or is just flat bored with more money than sense. Leave the damn thing alone, it will shoot just fine. If you must fiddle with it, put some tritium sights on it or replace the guide rod with a laser. Beyond that, its just fine out of the box. If you want to buy a gun that you have to mess with five minutes after you take it home, buy a rust bucket. ;D
FQ13
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BAC, m25operator is correct. I also have switched out my .40's and went completely .45 with my Glocks. Next one I buy will be in 9mm.
If you have any further questions, have a certified armorer break it down for you and take a look.
There was a warning that went out on some Federal ammo that was too hot but I believe it was in .45 ACP?
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FQ, I don't mean to pick...
As does any firearm manufacturer. Check out your owners manual for virtually any gun you own.
There are many Glock shooters that will take your money if you believe that. Bullseye...yeah, probably. Unless it's been tweaked, then all bets are off.
Run and gun? Not if you shoot Glocks a lot.
The best way to get really good at shooting Glocks? Shoot only Glocks.
Get married to that trigger and you can shoot very, very well.
Yes, I dearly love my 1911s, Smith & Wessons and my Sigs...I carry my Glock. ;)
+1
I do shoot reloads (thousands) through my Glocks and have not experienced any problems. The Lee dies I have fully size the case and I don't run hot loads either.
Why would you want to replace either? Five and a half pounds with a two stage break so you know exactly when its going to go bang seems about right on an SD gun. As far as the barrel? What is wrong with it? The bullet comes out, goes where I want it to, and has done so thousands of times on three different 9mm Glocks.....
FQ13
Pretty much agree with you here, except I would say the Glock platform makes it easy and less expensive to tinker....BTW, just picked up a G35 and a G34 in the past few weeks for USPSA/IDPA.
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Why would you want to replace either?
Oh I don't know, maybe I don't want to be limited in the type of ammo I shoot or like the crappy stock trigger? In case you haven't noticed, lead bullets are a lot cheaper than jacketed. Buying and reloading lead bullets equals more shooting. Not having to scrap my brass after 2 or 3 reloads equals more shooting.
The bullet comes out, goes where I want it to, and has done so thousands of times on three different 9mm Glocks.
Wow, thousands of times? What did you do the second weekend you had it? ;) ;D
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Why would you want to replace either? Five and a half pounds with a two stage break so you know exactly when its going to go bang seems about right on an SD gun. As far as the barrel? What is wrong with it? The bullet comes out, goes where I want it to, and has done so thousands of times on three different 9mm Glocks. To me, a guy who modifies a Glock's trigger or barrel is either running in rarefied circles of competition, or is just flat bored with more money than sense. Leave the damn thing alone, it will shoot just fine. If you must fiddle with it, put some tritium sights on it or replace the guide rod with a laser. Beyond that, its just fine out of the box. If you want to buy a gun that you have to mess with five minutes after you take it home, buy a rust bucket. ;D
FQ13
All my Glock barrels are stock, but if you want to shoot lead bullets and keep the fouling to a less totally unacceptable level (any level of lead fouling is unacceptable to me..don't touch lead bullets) or want to reload the 40S&W extensively, you would be interested in a replacement barrel.
My triggers are OEM, but I have stoned the burrs and rough surfaces and have a much smoother trigger pull. Swapping connectors, I can go from the standard trigger pull to a 2.5 lb pull and back in a few minutes.
It would be nice if Glock did offer the replacement barrels as an option. Would consider one if it was tennifer treated.
Another reason to equip an aftermarket barrel is that bullets shot through an aftermarket barrel can not be traced to your gun with the OEM barrel with matching serial numbers installed. If your lifestyle might include a need for that.
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Lead or plated bullets ??? OK ! I have shot thousand of lead bullets through my Glocks with not one problem. As with most shooters I did it for the $ factor. Last year I discovered Montana Gold Bullets. Cost for 1000 rounds 9mm 115gr. jhp $ 107 delivered. I can't buy lead for that price from a manufacturer three miles away. Rant Off
http://www.montanagoldbullet.com/index.html (http://www.montanagoldbullet.com/index.html)
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I shoot my Glocks more than anything else and didn't immediately understand what you were asking because they looked like good solid primer strikes. So yeah that is completely normal.
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What is the SF on Glock Models? Short Frame ? Please enlighten me. :-\
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What is the SF on Glock Models? Short Frame ? Please enlighten me. :-\
I'm not sure of the exact terminology the factory had in mind, but the term slim frame comes to mind pretty descriptively. The SF models have a thinner grip. It was first brought out in the Glock 21 which a lot of people with small hands had trouble with because of it's large, thick grip frame. The SF was thinner in the grip area in hoping to correct this problem, making the pistol appeal to more shooters. Bill T.
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Ok that is helpful, I only had a sip of the kool-aid, been thinking about buying a Glock 20. ;D
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billt is correct the 21SF designation is for a "slimmer frame" than the standard 21, which I own, and affectionately call the the railroad tie with a grip.
Previous generations of "G" guns had no grip adjustments...it was as it is...
Now it seems they jumped on the M+P bandwagon, of which I also own,....and went small, med, large.... ::)
All is good, keep the price of 10mm in perspective if you plan on shooting alot.
If it's not an issue, I believe m25 also has a G20.
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Ok that is helpful, I only had a sip of the kool-aid, been thinking about buying a Glock 20. ;D
I'm with you ;D
Do they make a G-20 SF ?
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I'm with you ;D
Do they make a G-20 SF ?
Not sure about the G20 SF, but if they make a Gen4 G20, the smallest grip configuration will be the same size as an SF grip.
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talkin bout...
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=PF20502-03&index=2&mfg=All&mdl=All&cat=All&type=Semi-Automatic+Pistol&cal=10MM&fin=&sit=&pid=&inv= (http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=PF20502-03&index=2&mfg=All&mdl=All&cat=All&type=Semi-Automatic+Pistol&cal=10MM&fin=&sit=&pid=&inv=)
10 in stock:
http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/glock-20sf-10mm-fixed-sight-15rd-glock-rail-p-1687.html (http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/glock-20sf-10mm-fixed-sight-15rd-glock-rail-p-1687.html)
I'd rather have the gen 3 than the gen 4. The interchangable grips are to "Chinese trinkety" IMO.
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I'm with Badger here. I think Glock is screwing up by putting on bells and whistles and adjustable grips and finger grooves and the like. Look, what made a Glock a Glock was not its ergonomics. That wasn't even a selling point. It sold on four criteria:
It held a lot of bullets
It always went bang
It was idiot proof
They were completly interchangeable as far as mags in same caliber went.
And it did all four of these things a a reasonable price.
The whole adjustability thing seems to add unecessary expense and under cut the whole "idiot proof" because there is nothing to screw up selling point. Not to mention interchangeability for department sales. If you want a gun you can mess with get an M@P or a 1911. If you want to open the box and shoot it, and clean it twice a year, get a Glock.
FQ13
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(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/2r53w9y.jpg)
Come on in boys, the Tenifer flavored Kool Aids fine! ;D
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Speaking of $5 off, for any of you Glockaholics out there. Midway has 17 round Glock 9 MM magazines, as well as the original factory Glock 33 rounders on sale. $22.49 for the 17 round, and $31.99 for the 33 rounder. They have a limit of 2 per customer for the 33 rounder, but that is as good of a price as I've ever seen on original Glock 33 round magazines. It is cheaper than what Cabela's charges for the 33 round Korean knock off models. Lenny Magill over at The Glock Store charges $49.95 for the same magazine.
It's all over the news Hussein is planning some sweeping gun control measures. Maybe he will, or maybe he won't. The point is even if he's just bluffing, it will send people into much the same frenzy it did after he was elected. If he bans Hi-Cap magazines by Executive order, which he could, these will be gone forever. It's a chance to pick up a couple of original Glock Hi-Caps for little more than a tank of gas. If you're worried about shipping, these are small and light enough to go USPS Priority Mail direct to your mailbox cheaper than UPS. I've got 2 of each on the way. They should be here Monday. Bill T.
http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip/3_Mags+%26amp%3B+Extensions/7272_High+Capacity+Glock+Factory+Magazines/?return=%3ftpl%3Dindex%26category_id%3D3%26_Mags%2B%26amp%3B%2BExtensions%2F
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=538434
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=116453
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Speaking of $5 off, for any of you Glockaholics out there. Midway has 17 round Glock 9 MM magazines, as well as the original factory Glock 33 rounders on sale. $22.49 for the 17 round, and $31.99 for the 33 rounder. They have a limit of 2 per customer for the 33 rounder, but that is as good of a price as I've ever seen on original Glock 33 round magazines. It is cheaper than what Cabela's charges for the 33 round Korean knock off models. Lenny Magill over at The Glock Store charges $49.95 for the same magazine.
It's all over the news Hussein is planning some sweeping gun control measures. Maybe he will, or maybe he won't. The point is even if he's just bluffing, it will send people into much the same frenzy it did after he was elected. If he bans Hi-Cap magazines by Executive order, which he could, these will be gone forever. It's a chance to pick up a couple of original Glock Hi-Caps for little more than a tank of gas. If you're worried about shipping, these are small and light enough to go USPS Priority Mail direct to your mailbox cheaper than UPS. I've got 2 of each on the way. They should be here Monday. Bill T.
http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip/3_Mags+%26amp%3B+Extensions/7272_High+Capacity+Glock+Factory+Magazines/?return=%3ftpl%3Dindex%26category_id%3D3%26_Mags%2B%26amp%3B%2BExtensions%2F
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=538434
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=116453
Why I'm savin my pennies to buy an 35 round MPA Defender before some stupid max capacity law goes into effect. Come on bama, just give me two more weeks! ;) A year into a ban on high cap mags, imagine what an "near new" 35 round 9mm will go for! CHA CHING! ;D And I'll get to play with it in the meantime! ;D ;D ;D