The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Paraguy on June 30, 2011, 09:56:06 AM
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My self defense ammo (Rem Golden Sabre 9mm +P) is about 3 years old and fortunately has not been needed. Should I plan to use at the range and buy new at this point or is this good for another three years or more?
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If stored properly ammunition should not have an expiration date.
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People every day are using ammo that is 50+ years old. I have some 30-06 ammo from the Korean War era (remember to wash guns thoroughly after use, as it is corrosive ammo). I have fired handgun ammo that was over 20 years old with no problems.
HOWEVER, my above statements are related to 'practice' ammo.......when betting your life on a particular SD ammo, why take chances? I replace carry ammo every 6-12 months........... Not really that economically detrimental because it only takes 2 boxes of SD ammo to load out my carry guns and spare mags.
JMHO, FWIW
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Maybe around five years I'd think about replacing it, definitely get more serious about it after ten. No real rational behind it, just 'cause.
Do be very watchful of the stuff you actually carry. Chambering a round several time can push the bullet back into the casing (setback) which may be problematic. It can increase firing pressure by reducing the size of the combustion chamber and may cause feeding problems. I always shoot my carry gun when I go to the range so I'm re-chambering the SD ammo often - but not as often as I'd like. I make sure the same round that came out of the chamber goes back in (to prevent feeding issues) and once I can see a visible setback (when compared to the other SD rounds) I replace it and use it at the range.
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If kept in a steady temp with no big swings, preferably cool. It will last a long time. Just look at the WW2 ammo still being shot
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I am enlightened by what Ichiban said, there is a difference between ammo in a box in a safe and ammo that you carry that might get unchambered and reloaded at times. I do, for safety purposes, unload the gun fully and re-load with the same rounds in the same order and never thought about how that activity might impact the longevity and capability of the round.
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The only time I ever ran across noticeable "setback" was with a Winchester Mod 94 left loaded .
YMMV YMWPV
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The problem is typically seen with automatic pistols when the same round hits the feed ramp many times. It seems to be a bigger issue with some reloads than factory ammo. If you are talking about a revolver then ... [Emiliy Litella voice] Never mind. [/Emiliy Litella voice]
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As long as the ammo has not been exposed to extremes of temperature, particularly heat, and has not been exposed to environmental issues like being under water or in oil or a corrosive atmosphere, it should last many many years.
Canisters of powder for reloading, on the other hand, DO have a much shorter shelf life, perhaps a couple or 3 years. They become more volatile as they age and should not be used for reloading. Use it to start your fireplace, bbq charcoal or camp fires.
Spread it on a sheet of news paper on the fire grate and put your kindling/logs/charcoal on top of it and light a corner of the paper....and stand back a foot or two...no explosion, but a nice flare up.
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I have read several articles by folks like John Taffin where he used 50+ year old powder to reload for testing. He claimed to have no problems.....BUT, I agree with Solus and probably wouldn't do it....powder ain't that expensive.
I would be more concerned with solvent/oil contamination to primers/powder. I have heard of folks using penetrating type oil, such as Kroil or PB B'Laster, and it could (if not removed from the internals of the weapon properly) contaminate ammo.....rare, I know, but possible.
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Put on your hard hats guys. War story time:
In olden days when I was fighting in Vietnam, before the M16 trash, we were even using some pre WWII ammo. I have a .45 case I am still reloading head-stamped FA25. That I shot in the 1965-66 time frame. Most of the M1 Garand & 1903 Springfield ammo was WWII vintage.
I just now am shooting the last of the .357 ammo that I bought in the PX in 1963.
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I have read several articles by folks like John Taffin where he used 50+ year old powder to reload for testing. He claimed to have no problems.....BUT, I agree with Solus and probably wouldn't do it....powder ain't that expensive.
I would be more concerned with solvent/oil contamination to primers/powder. I have heard of folks using penetrating type oil, such as Kroil or PB B'Laster, and it could (if not removed from the internals of the weapon properly) contaminate ammo.....rare, I know, but possible.
So leaving ammo in the auto pistol could impact the integrity of the round. Sounds like I need to go the range more often and shoot out my SD ammo. BTW, the range near me has Rem .40 Golden Sabres for $159.99/500, might be the excuse I was looking for to "invest" in some.
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So leaving ammo in the auto pistol could impact the integrity of the round. Sounds like I need to go the range more often and shoot out my SD ammo. BTW, the range near me has Rem .40 Golden Sabres for $159.99/500, might be the excuse I was looking for to "invest" in some.
Not leaving it in but chambering the same round time after time can cause the bullet to work its way down further in the case causing pressures to build higher than spec when shot causing a catastrophic event. KABOOM. If you clear you gun daily just rotate the rounds and shoot up those that may cause you trouble after a good inspection.
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I have read several articles by folks like John Taffin where he used 50+ year old powder to reload for testing. He claimed to have no problems.....BUT, I agree with Solus and probably wouldn't do it....powder ain't that expensive.
I would be more concerned with solvent/oil contamination to primers/powder. I have heard of folks using penetrating type oil, such as Kroil or PB B'Laster, and it could (if not removed from the internals of the weapon properly) contaminate ammo.....rare, I know, but possible.
Might depend upon whether the can of powder has been opened or not. I've been applying that "rule" to opened cans.
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I'm not a loader, just a shooter but when I qualified and re-qualified back in the '70's, the ball ammo was nearly thirty years old. My last qualifying score was 289 or 290 out 300 and I physical saw one round leave the muzzle of the Colt 1911 (tweaked a bit) I'd borrowed from my supervisor. I had no problems with three decade old ammo...
Would I trust my life to it? Doubtful...
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I use up my self defense ammo usually every six months but will not go over a year. This is just my personal preference.
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I have gotten into the practice of dropping the first round into the chamber when I do an "Administrative" reload and then releasing the slide by pulling it back and letting go.
I have heard there could be a problem with this procedure, maybe something like the extractor may not engage with the round chambered or perhaps the extractor/case will be stressed by this process.
I have never had a problem with extraction after using this procedure. It does avoid the setback that may be caused by repeatedly chambering a round.
Any one have any information on this?
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I have gotten into the practice of dropping the first round into the chamber when I do an "Administrative" reload and then releasing the slide by pulling it back and letting go.
I have heard there could be a problem with this procedure, maybe something like the extractor may not engage with the round chambered or perhaps the extractor/case will be stressed by this process.
I have never had a problem with extraction after using this procedure. It does avoid the setback that may be caused by repeatedly chambering a round.
Any one have any information on this?
Done it both ways for years, never had a problem.....however, I can see where it may potentially be an issue with some pistols more than others. Like 1911's that use a solid extractor, with tension built into the extractor itself, versus a pistol with a coil spring powered extractor. The main problem that I could see happening is excessive wear on the case rim if the extractor keeps hitting the same spot each time. Close inspection of the cases and good rotation of ammo would solve this.
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So leaving ammo in the auto pistol could impact the integrity of the round. Sounds like I need to go the range more often and shoot out my SD ammo. BTW, the range near me has Rem .40 Golden Sabres for $159.99/500, might be the excuse I was looking for to "invest" in some.
I don't think it is a major concern, just something to keep in the back of the mind regarding the type of oil used inside the gun.......but extra range time is good. ;)
I was just introducing a potential (but rare) problem into the thought process. I have never experienced this myself, but an 'old-timer' at my club years ago told of an instance of a squib load that was traced back to oil contamination. He said he had always been guilty of "over lubing" his 1911 competition gun and had inadvertently left a mag full of ammo in it after a match. Evidently, the oil worked its way into either the powder or primer and resulted in a squib later on (this was his best guess, and may not be the case, as there are many variables involved). Think about how many times many of us have lubed up a pistol and then cycled it over and over....all the while continuously wiping the excess oil that continues to creep out of crevices and openings. I don't thing you would have to worry much with factory ammo with a good crimp.
As I said, this type of thing is very rare, and in actuality, I would be more concerned with bullet set-back (as others have mentioned).
My bottom line, relating to the original question, is that SD ammo is still cheap enough right now to rotate it out at regular intervals. I shoot the outgoing ammo and this gives me peace of mind (as much as one can have with variables) that my ammo works in my gun, and that I have fresh ammo in-loaded.
Like before, I make no claims as an expert so, it's JMHO, FWIW.
8)
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I have gotten into the practice of dropping the first round into the chamber when I do an "Administrative" reload and then releasing the slide by pulling it back and letting go.
Not a good practice IMHO.
Rounds are supposed to slide from a mag under an extractor not bang into them. While it does avoid bullet setback, that can be dealt with by rotating which ones are fed first.
Bullets are cheap and easy to replace, in a real hurry if need be. Extractors you rely on for the gun to save your life. (and give you that 'real hurry' next bullet.)
I won't take a chance of making a gun go bang, oh shit. I want bang, bang.
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There was a bunch of noise and chatter about WallyWorld ammo not being good because they use so much WD-40 on the transfer ramps in the warehouses that lots of it gets splashed up on the boxes of ammo and creeps into the cartridges resulting in misfires.
Box o' Truth did a series of tests using various penetrating products. They sprayed Kroil and WD-40 and various other penetrants on boxes without any subsequent failures.
Then they sprayed the stuff directly on various cartridges and let them sit for a period of time--again, no failures.
So they put some ammo in a plastic buckets and covered them with the various penetrants and let 'em sit. Would you believe: no failures.
A couple of years ago, Haz and I ran through a box of .22 long that I got from my FIL. He'd bought the box back when he was a young whippersnapper around 1935. Over the years, it had not received optimum storage care. I recall we had only two or three misfires and I think at least two of those fired after we rotated their position in the revolver.
IMHO, ammo is rather resilient stuff. It will probably last longer than we will.
But, all that said, I run through a magazine or a revolver full of my defensive ammo each time I go to the range.
Knowledge is one thing, but trusting your life to something that is supposed to go bang is a whole different story.
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I have read several articles by folks like John Taffin where he used 50+ year old powder to reload for testing. He claimed to have no problems.....BUT, I agree with Solus and probably wouldn't do it....powder ain't that expensive.
I would be more concerned with solvent/oil contamination to primers/powder. I have heard of folks using penetrating type oil, such as Kroil or PB B'Laster, and it could (if not removed from the internals of the weapon properly) contaminate ammo.....rare, I know, but possible.
$45.00-$50.00 a pound is plenty expensive!!
Thats about a bazillion dollars in US currency now isnt it? ;D
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$45.00-$50.00 a pound is plenty expensive!!
Thats about a bazillion dollars in US currency now isnt it? ;D
Sucks to be you, $21 a pound last time I checked. ;D