The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: billt on July 14, 2011, 10:17:14 AM

Title: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: billt on July 14, 2011, 10:17:14 AM

http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2011/05/11/the-gun-that-killed-osama-bin-laden-revealed

I don't know how true it is, but it certainly seems plausible. I know Special Ops carry the H&K 416.   Bill T.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: seeker_two on July 14, 2011, 11:03:02 AM

Not surprised....I'd pretty much doubted all the accounts that a pistol had been used....a good soldier uses a RIFLE for fighting....  8)

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 14, 2011, 11:07:47 AM

The article uses the words "highly reliable".  

http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/hk416_general.asp (http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/hk416_general.asp) - "the most reliable of any M4/M16 type weapon."

If you do a yahoo search for "poor reliability" a picture of an AR is on the second page...  

Sooo, "the most reliable of any M4/M16 type weapon."...  Something like saying "the best of the worst.  And we're proud of that!"  :-\

Seal team 6 could'a used a pink rubber band gun and every mall ninja in america would be shelling out $2,000 at the chance to have one right now.  But only if it had a quad rail on it!   ;)

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: billt on July 14, 2011, 11:11:40 AM

I think the main reason Special Ops went to the H&K 416 is because it is a piston weapon, and because of that it is far more reliable than the gas impingement system. A lot of people will argue that, but the M-4 has had it's share of issues over the last several years. I did read a few articles on the H&K 416, and the military in general is very happy with it. The biggest problem is of course cost. They can't equip everyone with them. Especially in this economy.   Bill T.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 14, 2011, 11:54:49 AM

Given the overall size, weight, ergonomics of the weapon...  I can think of a certain stamped steel, .30 caliber, piston weapon that is the utter definition of reliability in itself.  Did I mention it's CHEAP?  Even in todays economy we could hand them out like door prizes at recruiters offices.   ;D

Whens the last time you suppose a HK416 was fired at a target over 100 yards in combat?  I'm all for added accuracy, and optimum ballistics.  But more for practicality.  Choose the right tool for the job.

Thank you for your contribution to our world Mr. Kalashnikov!   :)

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 14, 2011, 12:43:02 PM

Quote from: Badgersmilk on July 14, 2011, 11:54:49 AM

Given the overall size, weight, ergonomics of the weapon...  I can think of a certain stamped steel, .30 caliber, piston weapon that is the utter definition of reliability in itself.  Did I mention it's CHEAP?  Even in todays economy we could hand them out like door prizes at recruiters offices.   ;D

Whens the last time you suppose a HK416 was fired at a target over 100 yards in combat?  I'm all for added accuracy, and optimum ballistics.  But more for practicality.  Choose the right tool for the job.

Thank you for your contribution to our world Mr. Kalashnikov!   :)

Sadly badger is right. We can argue M-16 vs AK with good arguments on both sides. But when it comes to a carbine? We in the US are dropping $2k on a weapon made overseas. The Russians and Chinese are dropping $350 for a weapon they make themselves. And the difference at under 100 yards is......? This reminds of NASA spending thousands to develop the "space pen" while the USSR just gave their guys a pencil, problem solved. :-[
FQ13

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: billt on July 14, 2011, 01:19:18 PM

I agree. But you also have to realize we are committed to the 5.56 MM NATO round. We have quite literally billions of rounds stored in ordnance depots around the world to equip our military. Yes, the SAW can use them as well. But when you've committed to a given caliber for over 4 decades, you just can't swap out guns on a whim. The fact is regardless of design, it's going to cost our military hundreds of millions of dollars to break free of the 5.56 MM NATO round. For the time being it is far cheaper to come up with the best gun to shoot it out of. For at least the Special Forces that weapon appears to be the H&K 416. At least for now. Bill T.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Ichiban on July 14, 2011, 01:42:26 PM

Quote from: fightingquaker13 on July 14, 2011, 12:43:02 PM

This reminds of NASA spending thousands to develop the "space pen" while the USSR just gave their guys a pencil, problem solved. :-[
FQ13

Not that it has caused a problem to date, but you do realize that using a pencil in zero gravity means that you have conductive dust floating around all of your electronics gear. 

Just wanted to point out that while there is no shortage of governmental bureaucratic stupidity, this is not a good example.

We will now return you to the AK-47 love-fest.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 14, 2011, 02:44:59 PM

Quote from: billt on July 14, 2011, 01:19:18 PM

I agree. But you also have to realize we are committed to the 5.56 MM NATO round. We have quite literally billions of rounds stored in ordnance depots around the world to equip our military. Yes, the SAW can use them as well. But when you've committed to a given caliber for over 4 decades, you just can't swap out guns on a whim. The fact is regardless of design, it's going to cost our military hundreds of millions of dollars to break free of the 5.56 MM NATO round. For the time being it is far cheaper to come up with the best gun to shoot it out of. For at least the Special Forces that weapon appears to be the H&K 416. At least for now. Bill T.

Calculate what we paid for all that junk stuff, factor in a little for depreciation, and start paying our international bills with it!  YARD SALE!!!   ;D


Only problem is every 4yr old kid around the world is already toting something better.   :-[

(http://alpentraum.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/080614_kid_and_gun.jpg)

Exchange rate isn't going to do so well.   :(

At least ours have 8 rails, lasers, flashlights, shiny battery powered sights, a key ring, place to keep beef jerky in the grip, and an 18 point trapeze harness!

 ::)

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: kmitch200 on July 15, 2011, 02:03:14 AM

Decry the direct impingment M16 or M4, (which I think has a too short barrel), all you want but it sure has put a LOT of azzholes in the grave.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: TAB on July 15, 2011, 02:14:37 AM

I think they went to the 416 becuase it takes a supressor much better then a M4.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 15, 2011, 07:59:02 AM

Quote from: kmitch200 on July 15, 2011, 02:03:14 AM

Decry the direct impingment M16 or M4, (which I think has a too short barrel), all you want but it sure has put a LOT of azzholes in the grave.

All the hullabaloo about HK 416 vs M4 is a load of crap.
 In both cases you are launching a glorified .22 caliber projectile through a short barrel.
You are also comparing a weapon adopted for general issue to 10's of 1000's of troops to one picked for use by a small group of extremely highly trained specialists.
It is also worth noting that the special ops community were the 1st ones to adopt the M$ platform with the CAR-15 back in the 60's.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 16, 2011, 11:50:36 AM

Quote from: kmitch200 on July 15, 2011, 02:03:14 AM

Decry the direct impingment M16 or M4, (which I think has a too short barrel), all you want but it sure has put a LOT of azzholes in the grave.

Same could easily be said about a rock, butcher knife, chipper shredder, and a garbage bag over the head.  Still doesn't put them in my top 10,000 weapons of choice.   :-\

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: kmitch200 on July 16, 2011, 12:33:01 PM

Quote from: Badgersmilk on July 16, 2011, 11:50:36 AM

Same could easily be said about a rock, butcher knife, chipper shredder, and a garbage bag over the head.  Still doesn't put them in my top 10,000 weapons of choice.   :-\

But they do the job right?
My top weapon of choice - the one I can grab. I don't care if it's a 1911 or a ball bat or a rock.

Tip: paint the rock black to make it tacticool.  ;)

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: twyacht on July 16, 2011, 07:48:30 PM

The BIG BUT is,.. we used silver bullet gun oil,.....

Utilizing the best FDA Pork Fat.....13% in the mix,.....

No virgins,....

No Paradise,....

Now Crab food.....

One Shot,...One Soul,....

P.S.  UBL is still dead....

They could have put a WWF pile driver on his worthless hide.....either way, like kmitch posted,....a bowling pin, porn video, or whatever was at hand,....as long as he's not taking up oxygen anymore.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 16, 2011, 07:55:13 PM

Hung with a VHS of "Debbie does Dallas" ?
Oh, the inhumanity of it all.  ;D

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: twyacht on July 16, 2011, 08:14:38 PM

Probably tom,.....with an old VCR with no tracking,....

that's inhumanity,..... ::)

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 16, 2011, 08:18:03 PM

Worst death imaginable?  Raped by Vin Diesel.

He "likes the boys" you know...    :-[ :-[ :-[

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 16, 2011, 10:06:01 PM

Quote from: Badgersmilk on July 16, 2011, 08:18:03 PM

Worst death imaginable?  Raped by Vin Diesel.

He "likes the boys" you know...    :-[ :-[ :-[

Better than Dame Edna.
FQ13

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: kmitch200 on July 17, 2011, 03:19:25 AM

I had to look that one up.....YUCK!!

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: justbill on July 17, 2011, 08:42:28 AM

Quote from: Badgersmilk on July 16, 2011, 08:18:03 PM

Worst death imaginable?  Raped by Vin Diesel.

He "likes the boys" you know...    :-[ :-[ :-[

I guess you'd better tell his long time girlfriend, model Paloma Jimenez. You know, the one with whom he has a daughter.

(http://www.vindieselbiography.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/vin-diesel-and-paloma-jimenez.jpg)

Why is it that when someone doesn't feel a need to publicly discuss their life's intimate details, they're quickly branded as "liking the boys," "munching the carpet," or some other sophomoric appellation?

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Timothy on July 17, 2011, 09:06:01 AM

Don't sweat it too much JustBill, it's not the first time the Badger has said something stupid or inaccurate.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Pathfinder on July 17, 2011, 11:32:02 AM

Quote from: Timothy on July 17, 2011, 09:06:01 AM

Don't sweat it too much JustBill, it's not the first time the Badger has said something stupid or inaccurate.

Uh, actually, I think it is generally well known about Diesel. OK, maybe not that well known, but I asked my son about it and he said - Hell yeah, big time gay, $3 bill and all.

Paloma is what is known in the vernacular as a "beard", and they ended up as a couple shortly after the photo above when another photo of him holding hands with his boyfriend at some Hollyweird function surfaced on the net. About the same time Diesel's career tanked, and he ended up doing voices for video games, kind of a hallmark milestone for a dead-end career. He made a big splash in action flicks, and now is doing video game voice overs? Not exactly an upward trajectory.

Oh, he has a couple things "in production" according to IMDB - just like all of the other washed up actors.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Timothy on July 17, 2011, 02:44:47 PM

Personally, I don't give a shit or two who he's banging.  Don't think I've even sat completely through one his movies.

Thick necked, muscle bound dudes are overcompensating for something most of the time anyway!

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: seeker_two on July 18, 2011, 07:56:15 PM

Quote from: justbill on July 17, 2011, 08:42:28 AM

I guess you'd better tell his long time girlfriend, model Paloma Jimenez. You know, the one with whom he has a daughter.

(http://www.vindieselbiography.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/vin-diesel-and-paloma-jimenez.jpg)

Vin Diesel is a LESBIAN?....  :o




....I kinda like his movies....they tend to be slightly more intelligent than most of Sly & Ahnold's flicks.....I wonder if Vin can sing?.....

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 18, 2011, 08:28:02 PM

Stallone sure as hell can't.

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 18, 2011, 09:16:41 PM

To many boxing movies.   ;)

Expendables was pretty good I thought!  But I'm biased to liking any movie with a Grumman Goose in it.  It and the Dehavilland Beaver are just to cool for school IMO!   ;D

Does anybody remember "The Golden Monkey"? LOVED THAT SHOW!!!

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 18, 2011, 09:53:26 PM

Quote from: Badgersmilk on July 18, 2011, 09:16:41 PM

To many boxing movies.   ;)

Expendables was pretty good I thought!  But I'm biased to liking any movie with a Grumman Goose in it.  It and the Dehavilland Beaver are just to cool for school IMO!   ;D

Does anybody remember "The Golden Monkey"? LOVED THAT SHOW!!!

No....but I knew a gal in a strip joint once that had a golden monkey.....does that count?    :o



Been a while since I visited the corner........ha!!!!!!     ;D  ;D

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Solus on July 19, 2011, 07:50:02 AM

Can't take Stallone seriously....not since I saw Jack Lemon beat him up and make him beg for mercy   ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 19, 2011, 09:11:47 AM

I think when they name the film after you...  It's pretty much accepted you get to beat down anyone you want and get away with it.   ;D

Lemon was a great actor though! Little "bitc#y" in most rolls though.   :-\

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 19, 2011, 11:13:43 AM

Title: Re: Weapon Used To Kill Bin Laden Revealed
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 19, 2011, 09:49:28 PM

Why I like him as an actor I guess.  Sounds a lot like my wife!  And I married her!   ;D