The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: twyacht on July 16, 2011, 07:50:45 AM
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Okee-Dokee....As I have posted, my CMP Garand is coming this Mon. ;D
I have heard a multitude of yes, no, and maybe's, about modern commercial 30-06 ammo in Garands.
Here's what I have read/heard:
The 150gr "lighter bullets" are not a problem. ( I have a small amount of Federal 150gr SP and Winchester 150gr Power-Point)
Can I use it?
I ordered the Greek Milsurp M2 ammo from CMP....$98 for 200rds. But it will not arrive for a week to 10 days. :-\
There is a Schuster adjustable gas plug that adapts the pressures of modern ammo for Garands.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146
Do I really need it?
I would like to perhaps take a Florida Hog with this rifle one day, and FMJ/Ball milsurp is Verboten.... So a SP "modern hunting" rd. is my option.
Can I use modern 150gr. 30-06 Springfield ammo sparingly without bending the op. rod, or damaging the rifle?
30-06 chamber pressure is 50,000 SAAMI.
http://www.wearesoldiers.org/Garand/Garand.htm
http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm
However, Ed Clancy, and Hatcher's Notebook, have done bolt and firing tests in Garands with handloads to 80,000 CK n C.
quote from Hatcher's notebook. "In trying to determine the ultimate strength of the gun, Mr. Garand built up progressively higher proof loads in increments of 5,000 lbs. pressure, from the regular proof load of 70,000 lbs. to the extreme figure of 120,000 lbs. per square inch. At this later figure, cracked left lugs on the bolt began to be encountered. A gun in which the bolt had the left lug cracked by one of these excessive high pressure overloads was then fired an endurance test of 5,000 rounds of service ammunition, using the cracked bolt, which showed no further deterioration.
What's the truth?
I trust DRTV advice more than just the other "straights"..... ::)
Any and all advice is appreciated.
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I'll bet the period correct load data used can be found with some digging. Then base your choices off that.
I'll try, but others may have better access to such... ?
Winchester ammo I'm guessing... ?
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OH, Good God. Easier than I thought!
Fist site I looked at. http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=2713 (http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=2713)
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Copy these ballistics with quicker (IMR-4895) rather than slower powder and you'll be fine.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=214917
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I have successfully made hunting ammuntion with 150gr bullets and AA2520 powder. 4895 is also a good powder to use. Some commercial ammunition uses slower powder so the pressure is higher which can bend your rod.
When I first started I would pull the bullet from ball ammo and then put a SP bullet in it. Not optimal but it worked. Much easier to make your own and tailor it to your rifle.
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Some body makes a soft point for the M1, I've got a bunch of it in my safe, give me a few and i'll go get the info for you.
I use to carry a M1 as back up to a pair of bow hunters... and have the scars to prove it( post them before)
Also there is a kit you can buy to modify the operating rod/gas block so you can use comm'l ammo, its very cheap.
edit
found the FMJ its a american egale product AE3006M1.
Hornaday makes one as well that is a 168 grains, its a hallow base boat tail with a plastic tip.
The soft points I have were made up by a local comm'l reloader. sorry.
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Lord TW, had you posted this last year I would have given you two cases. No joke, my grandad had a garand and sold it, but he had all these hand loaded cartridges, about 1800 of them that I inherited. I gave them to a friend of his in exchange for a day of offshore fishing on his boat (1 spinner shark on the the fly, so I say I win ;)). I'll look for his reloading dope as it might be in his journals, but no guarantees. If I do find it, it will be with circa 1970s powders.
FQ13
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most of the modern reloading manuels have loads for the garand... so thats no big deal.
Another option is to pull the bullets and then install your own.
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When I was shooting NRA HighPower with my DCM Garand I used IMR 4895 w/160 and 168 gr bullets only. With the Sierra 168 gr. Match Kings it would shoot 600 yd. X's all day long if I did my part.
Richard
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When I was shooting NRA HighPower with my DCM Garand I used IMR 4895 w/160 and 168 gr bullets only. With the Sierra 168 gr. Match Kings it would shoot 600 yd. X's all day long if I did my part.
Richard
Those 168gr MK's are like magic bullets in many an '06 and .308 rifles ain't they?
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Thank you for all the info. It reads as if 150 gr. Federal and Winchester SP's will remain within the tolerances of the M1.
Hell. I saw a link to buy some 40 year old Iranian M2 milsurp that was 220gr. :o I suspect the key is the powder as the equalizer in the weight of the bullet as it relates to SAAMI pressure.
The dirt, sand, mud, snow, sleet, rain, lack of routine maint. these rifles endured during their service attests to the outstanding design.
I just wanted to confirm it with you "guru's". Can't beat the price of CMP's milsurp though, and now I have another caliber to stock up on. (While they have it)....
Just something about the Garand, almost like describing a Rugby game........
Elegant Violence... ;)
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get this and shoot anything you want.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Gunsmithing%20-%20Gun%20Parts%20-%20Rifle%20-%20(Aftermarket)-_-PriceCompListing-_-777146
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If it does what it says I'd say that's $30 well spent.
FQ13
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The M1 Garand is much like the Springfield M1-A in that it is best to use powders with a mid range burn rate. Stay away from slow burning powders and heavy bullets, or you'll wind up with a bent op rod. I have the new 8th Edition Hornady Reloading Manual, and they list a section of the .30-06 specifically for the M1 Garand. For 150 to 155 grain bullets it shows 42.3 up to 46.2 grains of Varget for loads in the M1 Garand. For 168 grain bullets it shows 40.3 up to 47.0 grains of Varget. Varget is a good mid range powder to use because it is not temperature sensitive, and burns relatively clean. I tried to scan the page, but it won't lay flat enough. If you need more let me know.
I bought 3 cases of the Greek HXP M-2 Ball ammo, (1,440 rounds), a few years back from the CMP. I got all 3 cases delivered Fed Ex for $381.00 at the time. I couldn't buy the brass that cheap. Anyway the stuff gives a hard bolt lift in my Browning A-Bolt Medallion in .30-06. I heard some guys were bending op rods with it in M1 Garands. The stuff is loaded hot! I would reload. That way you have better control, and can start out low and work your way up until you get reliable cycling. It's more of a PITA, but it's better than risking any damage to your new rifle by taking a chance with 45 year old Mil-Surp ammo. My Greek .30-06 ammunition was 1967 vintage. Bill T.
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If it does what it says I'd say that's $30 well spent.
FQ13
Alot of the guys on the CMP forums recommend it.