The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on July 24, 2011, 08:38:41 PM
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Saw a few of these rounds fired today. My friend that owns the range is starting a small reloading business and we were in the loading house and he was showing me the cases. He was telling me how quiet they were with a can at sub-sonic velocities out of a bolt-action. They were developed for the AR platform, but he was sitting around one day and had a 700 Remington and nothing to do, so he had it re-barreled for the 300 Blackout and threaded for a can. So today he made up a couple of rounds with 170gr .308 bullets and we stepped out and shook a round out and man, was this thing quiet.....I mean pellet gun quiet. Cool little round for medium-to-close work.
http://300aacblackout.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC_Blackout_%287.62%C3%9735mm%29
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Cool, but since it requires a special chamber I don't see it catching on.
It would be economically viable if in a standard chamber.
Otherwise it is nothing but an interesting odd ball like the tround, or Gyro jet.
As it stands when you fire a suppressed MP 5 9mm about all you hear is the bolt cycling.
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That is far out. Wish I had a "can".... :-\
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Nifty, but I think I'll wait awhile before buying one. Question, can I use my old mags as is, or do they need to be modified? If not its a plus over say the Grendel, but its still a very new round. Caveat emptor.
FQ13
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Nifty, but I think I'll wait awhile before buying one. Question, can I use my old mags as is, or do they need to be modified? If not its a plus over say the Grendel, but its still a very new round. Caveat emptor.
FQ13
Doesn't matter, you can't use your current barrel .
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Actually it does. If it takes a new upper, lets assume six bills or so. If it means new mags, that's another big chunk of change if you are buying say 6-10 boutique mags that you have to assume are going to cost a minimum of $30 a pop. Personally, my next AR upper is going to be an AK. That way I'll have the best of both worlds and still save money on ammo over a new upper for a boutique round like this. Just my .02.
FQ13
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Actually it does. If it takes a new upper, lets assume six bills or so. If it means new mags, that's another big chunk of change if you are buying say 6-10 boutique mags that you have to assume are going to cost a minimum of $30 a pop. Personally, my next AR upper is going to be an AK. That way I'll have the best of both worlds and still save money on ammo over a new upper for a boutique round like this. Just my .02.
FQ13
Actually I have come to the same conclusion, basically I detest the .223, but I prefer the drop free mags. 7.62X39 upper is the best of both worlds.
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This seems to be a slight improvement to the .300 Whisper.
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Truth is it doesn't matter.
This is just another aspect of the "Gun Culture".
Some people get their pleasure from making a perfect 1000 yd shot, for others it may be engraving, stock making, combat shooting or reloading.
This guy is one of those like Ackley who gets his jollies from messing with cartridge design.
More power to him ;D
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Actually I have come to the same conclusion, basically I detest the .223, but I prefer the drop free mags. 7.62X39 upper is the best of both worlds.
I think you misunderstood me Tom. I'm not going to buy a 7.62x39 upper, I'm going to buy an AK. It will save money and avoid problems in the long run. ARs don't run 7.62x39 well, and why have 1 gun with two uppers when you can have 2 guns for the same money?
FQ13
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Like I said, I prefer the AR's drop free mags over rocking in the AK mags.
That's why they make different guns . ;D
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I think you misunderstood me Tom. I'm not going to buy a 7.62x39 upper, I'm going to buy an AK. It will save money and avoid problems in the long run. ARs don't run 7.62x39 well, and why have 1 gun with two uppers when you can have 2 guns for the same money?
FQ13
Slight typographical error there. Fixed it for ya. ;)
Trade in the AR, mags, ammo, and any associated accessories, walk out with two AMD-65s and a case of ammo without taking a penny outta your pocket. 8)
Then you just gotta learn to shoot with one in each hand!
(http://dxreview.ru/img/f2/f24/Dual_wielding_AK_47s.jpg)
(http://www.tifr.us/storage/post-images/Moms-Shooting-Guns-Slow-Motion.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1277326799497)
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Like I said, I prefer the AR's drop free mags over rocking in the AK mags.
That's why they make different guns . ;D
Only problem with drop free mags is the one time the chips are down, and your expecting it to "drop free"... Have you met Mr. Murphy and discussed his law? He has an entire library dedicated to ARs you know.
If your in the habit of pulling the empty's out. No worries. ;)
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Only problem with drop free mags is the one time the chips are down, and your expecting it to "drop free"... Have you met Mr. Murphy and discussed his law? He has an entire library dedicated to ARs you know.
If your in the habit of pulling the empty's out. No worries. ;)
Dude, I've been working in machine sops for the last 25 years. ::)
Thing is, when someone or something is trying to kill you the straight pull on an AR mag will be closer to your capabilities than the more complex maneuver needed to to change AK mags every time. (remember also, sometimes things go right ;D )
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This seems to be a slight improvement to the .300 Whisper.
I believe this was the basis for the round.....to improve on the Whisper. From what I gather, in an AR, just change out the barrel, or the entire upper if you have a complete upper. As far as I can see, it looks like it works well in standard AR mags, which was one reason for development due to 7.63x39 being unreliable in AR mags because of the taper of the case wall.
*As a side note as it applies to my OP regarding this round in a bolt-gun, several of the guys I deal with on a semi-regular basis are the type that will/can change a bolt action barrel at the drop of a hat. They shoot on a team and carry a barrel vise with them. It is not uncommon for a couple of them to change barrels to do a caliber swap at any given time. I guess it helps to have a competent riflesmith and national champion Camp Perry competitor like John Whidden on your shooting team. ;D
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I've been running a 300aac (Blackout) for a few months now. I re-barreled one of my AR's, 15 minutes and up and running. It does use any regular AR magazine since the round is basically just a necked up 5.56 case. It feeds and functions flawlessly and is a beast within 200 yards. I've actually recently decided to get rid of my Grendel's and go to 300aac as my secondary caliber. The factory ammunition is pretty prevalent now with Remington, Hornady and others putting out multiple loads for it. If I lived out west or somewhere I could take advantage of the long range abilities of the Grendel I would've kept them but in Florida where most of my shots are inside of 100yds the 300 makes more sense.
I did learn something with it though, as a hog hunting round any shots inside of 75yds or so need to be a head shot. I took a quartering shot on a smallish (125lbs or so) hog from about 60yds and the only thing that was still edible was the left shoulder, right ham and about 7 inches of backstrap. It left a wound track big enough to put my arm through. That was with the 125gr OTM round. The cool thing is there's factory ammo available from 110gr to 220gr. The only comparable wound I've ever seen on a hog was a .454 casul from about 15ft. I was looking at going to a .308 AR platform but I'll stick to bolt rifles in .308 and keep the blackout as my mid-range round.
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Very nice to get some "end-user" info from you, bafsu.
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Very nice to get some "end-user" info from you, bafsu.
Outside of the obvious ballistics and the potential for a suppressor what I like the best is the fact that it uses standard AR mags (I've made all my 300aac mags foliage p-mags with a thin red stripe on them) and standard AR/M16 bolt and bolt carrier. No need to stock extra bolts in a different caliber, I can throw any BCG I have in and keep going. A guy I shoot with has done some testing and his blackout with a 10.5" barrel is running through the chrono at almost the same exact speed with the Remington 150gr factory load as most of the 147gr stuff he's putting through a 16" AK. that makes me want to SBR a blackout very soon.
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Outside of the obvious ballistics and the potential for a suppressor what I like the best is the fact that it uses standard AR mags (I've made all my 300aac mags foliage p-mags with a thin red stripe on them) and standard AR/M16 bolt and bolt carrier. No need to stock extra bolts in a different caliber, I can throw any BCG I have in and keep going. A guy I shoot with has done some testing and his blackout with a 10.5" barrel is running through the chrono at almost the same exact speed with the Remington 150gr factory load as most of the 147gr stuff he's putting through a 16" AK. that makes me want to SBR a blackout very soon.
Interesting, indeed.
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Yea, that's the problem with most SBR's in 5.56. It gets so anemic when the barrel gets any shorter than 14". I'm glad when I did my SBR stamps I registered the calibers as multi. As soon as I get the chance and cash for another barrel I'm going to break one of my rifles down and swap out the barrels. I'll probably do it to my Diplomat because even though the 7.5" AR looks really cool the ballistics of a 7.5" 5.56 are a joke. I think I'll put on a 10.5" blackout barrel in its place. My other SBR AR has a 12.5" so I'll leave it alone for now.
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Have you met Mr. Murphy and discussed his law?
I operate with the understanding that Murphy was an optimist.
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Outside of the obvious ballistics and the potential for a suppressor what I like the best is the fact that it uses standard AR mags (I've made all my 300aac mags foliage p-mags with a thin red stripe on them) and standard AR/M16 bolt and bolt carrier. No need to stock extra bolts in a different caliber, I can throw any BCG I have in and keep going. A guy I shoot with has done some testing and his blackout with a 10.5" barrel is running through the chrono at almost the same exact speed with the Remington 150gr factory load as most of the 147gr stuff he's putting through a 16" AK. that makes me want to SBR a blackout very soon.
I did some research after reading this, and that is impressive - same AR everything except the barrel. A new .30 barrel for the .300 aac blackout runs from $175 (CMMG) to $450 (Barrett). LOTS cheaper than going the 6.8 Rem SPC route. Brass is hugely cheaper than for the 6.8 - Midway is selling 500 pieces for $120 or $.24 each. Haven't looked into dies, but ammo seems to run $1 a round, sadly about normal for any non-5.56 caliber.
Looks like a very interesting alternative caliber.
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A good friend has just completed all the paperwork, insurance, and various other requirements to load and sell ammo. The Blackout is one he is looking into doing (along with custom exotics and the standard stuff). When he gets up and running, I'll post his prices and such.
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I did some research after reading this, and that is impressive - same AR everything except the barrel. A new .30 barrel for the .300 aac blackout runs from $175 (CMMG) to $450 (Barrett). LOTS cheaper than going the 6.8 Rem SPC route. Brass is hugely cheaper than for the 6.8 - Midway is selling 500 pieces for $120 or $.24 each. Haven't looked into dies, but ammo seems to run $1 a round, sadly about normal for any non-5.56 caliber.
Looks like a very interesting alternative caliber.
I've been paying an average of .80 a round but have found it from time to time for around .60. I paid an average of .65 for my Grendel ammo so it's not much different. I've got the 16" AR Stoner barrel from Midway that was right at $200 but I bought a couple other things and used one of the $25 off a $250 purchase coupons. I really feel like the blackout will take off since it makes so much sense and is such an easy swap and because unlike Alexander Arms who's tried to keep Grendel as proprietary as possible AAC seems to want to see blackout grow and become widely accepted even if it costs them some money to do it.
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I've been paying an average of .80 a round but have found it from time to time for around .60. I paid an average of .65 for my Grendel ammo so it's not much different. I've got the 16" AR Stoner barrel from Midway that was right at $200 but I bought a couple other things and used one of the $25 off a $250 purchase coupons. I really feel like the blackout will take off since it makes so much sense and is such an easy swap and because unlike Alexander Arms who's tried to keep Grendel as proprietary as possible AAC seems to want to see blackout grow and become widely accepted even if it costs them some money to do it.
Ammo - I was looking at single boxes of 20, after I posted I saw bulk .300 was below $1 a round.
I hear you on the Grendel - I never even considered it for that reason alone. And I don't think I was the only one to take a pass for that reason.
One of the things I read was that it is advised that you get an adjustable gas block to handle the sub-sonic/super-sonic/suppressed mix of ammo you can buy. Did you go this route, and if so, which gas block did you get?
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Ammo - I was looking at single boxes of 20, after I posted I saw bulk .300 was below $1 a round.
I hear you on the Grendel - I never even considered it for that reason alone. And I don't think I was the only one to take a pass for that reason.
One of the things I read was that it is advised that you get an adjustable gas block to handle the sub-sonic/super-sonic/suppressed mix of ammo you can buy. Did you go this route, and if so, which gas block did you get?
I didn't do it for my 16" barrel and haven't had any issues although I've shot very little subsonic in it. I know if you use a suppressor and subsonic ammo it's pretty necessary. On the 10.5" barrel, when I build it, I plan on using the Noveske Switchblock. I've already got it on my diplomat barrel anyway so I won't have to buy another since I'm swapping that rifle out but even if I did have to buy another that would be the one. If I'm running a suppressed direct impingement rifle of any caliber it will have a switchblock on it. I've heard good things about the blackout and piston systems but I've never tried one. What I'd really love to see is someone make a 300 blackout barrel for my MSAR-STG556 but considering MSAR rifles aren't being made anymore I won't hold my breath. They make a 6.8 and 7.62X39 barrel for it but I doubt anyone is making new barrels although I know a lot of people have contacted Rat Worx (they do all MSAR warranty work now) about doing a run of them.