The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on August 02, 2011, 06:32:22 PM
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Gee,....There was a post regarding the reality,...that we are still in a recession, it will double dip, by design, to an even worse state.
We were "told by experts", the stock market needs confidence and stability with the resolution of the "debt crises".....
How's that hopey/changey thing working?
Stock market took back this years gains in one day, below 12,000. Yet Gold was up over $40 in ONE Day....
Let's review.
Manufacturing Down.
Consumer Spending, Down.
GDP Revised Down.
Auto Sales, Down. (but what about the bailout)...???
Gas Prices Up.
Groceries Up.
Cost Of Living, Up.
Unemployment, Up.
Gun Sales, Up.
Ammo Sales, Up.
Gold, Way Up.
Silver, Up.
MRE's/ Food Storage, Up.
Congressional Approval, Way Down.
POTUS Approval, Way Down....
America's Credit Rating, Going Down...
Consumer Confidence, Down.
See a pattern????
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Hell yeah! I need to get more bullets before the price goes up.
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Gee,....There was a post regarding the reality,...that we are still in a recession, it will double dip, by design, to an even worse state.
We were "told by experts", the stock market needs confidence and stability with the resolution of the "debt crises".....
How's that hopey/changey thing working?
Stock market took back this years gains in one day, below 12,000. Yet Gold was up over $40 in ONE Day....
Let's review.
Manufacturing Down.
Consumer Spending, Down.
GDP Revised Down.
Auto Sales, Down. (but what about the bailout)...???
Gas Prices Up.
Groceries Up.
Cost Of Living, Up.
Unemployment, Up.
Gun Sales, Up.
Ammo Sales, Up.
Gold, Way Up.
Silver, Up.
MRE's/ Food Storage, Up.
Scooter sales, Up. 37% this month over anytime in US history before. ;D
Congressional Approval, Way Down.
POTUS Approval, Way Down....
America's Credit Rating, Going Down...
Consumer Confidence, Down.
See a pattern????
Edited for ya. ;)
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I like the Tacticool Urban Assault Scooter....
8)
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Because you haven't seen THIS yet!!! ;D
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaY6bOrCx2HAIaEKOAgJE6Q0S-QWcrevzVrhqpbKZTo2_sxYfCLA)
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/St2_1rXvWuI/AAAAAAAAB6w/TngBM6Xzdgo/s400/scooter-cannon.jpg)
As my dad would say. "Kills in front, cripples behind." ;D
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Because you haven't seen THIS yet!!! ;D
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaY6bOrCx2HAIaEKOAgJE6Q0S-QWcrevzVrhqpbKZTo2_sxYfCLA)
Jesus Christ! I think I'd just shoot myself before rolling out like that to face the enemy. I mean, I'd be dead either way, but if I shot myself at least I would keep some small scrap of dignity. ;D
FQ13
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Gee,....There was a post regarding the reality,...that we are still in a recession, it will double dip, by design, to an even worse state.
We were "told by experts", the stock market needs confidence and stability with the resolution of the "debt crises".....
<snip>
GDP Revised Down.
Auto Sales, Down. (but what about the bailout)...???
Gas Prices Up.
Groceries Up.
Cost Of Living, Up.
Unemployment, Up.
Gun Sales, Up.
Ammo Sales, Up.
Gold, Way Up.
Silver, Up.
......
The problem is those of us who knew better, who made better choices are going to suffer right along with those who foolishly supported the administration and such ilk. Who in their right ass mind could conjour up that this stupid debt deal was going to somehow restore us to prosperity? This debt deal just insured, all alone by it's little self, that the dollar is going to lose 20% of it's purchasing ability.
So if you or your loved one's have worked hard and saved while other people pissed theirs away...guess what you get to pay their tab.
Yes we have to do something...but going backwards should not have been the first choice. I now have no doubt there are politicians who are intentionally trying to destroy this nation so they can rebuild a communist paradise....but the most of them are just selfish and will sell us out to them for a buck. Who then, is the leader? You figure it out.
Don't believe that and you voted for BHO....yeah, let's hear what kind of crap you can justify this with. It may give me insite about what the timing of this thing is going to be so I can carry some sweat equity into the next economy...this one is doomed.
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The problem is those of us who knew better, who made better choices are going to suffer right along with those who foolishly supported the administration and such ilk. Who in their right ass mind could conjour up that this stupid debt deal was going to somehow restore us to prosperity? This debt deal just insured, all alone by it's little self, that the dollar is going to lose 20% of it's purchasing ability.
So if you or your loved one's have worked hard and saved while other people pissed theirs away...guess what you get to pay their tab.
Yes we have to do something...but going backwards should not have been the first choice. I now have no doubt there are politicians who are intentionally trying to destroy this nation so they can rebuild a communist paradise....but the most of them are just selfish and will sell us out to them for a buck. Who then, is the leader? You figure it out.
Don't believe that and you voted for BHO....yeah, let's hear what kind of crap you can justify this with. It may give me insite about what the timing of this thing is going to be so I can carry some sweat equity into the next economy...this one is doomed.
Do you ever drink decaff Rastus? Here's the deal. It ain't that bad. We've been through worse, far worse, and survived. And if you think we have traitors rather than idiots in charge? Well, explain the War of 1812, WWI, and WWII. Sorry, I don't think we are worse off now than we were then. So lighten up Francis! ;D
FQ!3
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Who in their right ass mind could conjour up that this stupid debt deal was going to somehow restore us to prosperity? This debt deal just insured, all alone by it's little self, that the dollar is going to lose 20% of it's purchasing ability.
So if you or your loved one's have worked hard and saved while other people pissed theirs away...guess what you get to pay their tab.
Yes we have to do something...but going backwards should not have been the first choice. I now have no doubt there are politicians who are intentionally trying to destroy this nation so they can rebuild a communist paradise....but the most of them are just selfish and will sell us out to them for a buck. Who then, is the leader? You figure it out.
I'm retired, so seeing the market take a nosedive just makes me feel all warm and fooking fuzzy.
Stupid ass politicians are killing my retirement! >:(
On the bright side, digging around in my gun room I found 1800 rds of 5.56 I forgot about, 250 new 30-06 cases, an 8# keg of H4350 that is unopened and 3 new Benchmade automatics that I forgot I own.
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I'm retired, so seeing the market take a nosedive just makes me feel all warm and fooking fuzzy.
Stupid ass politicians are killing my retirement! >:(
On the bright side, digging around in my gun room I found 1800 rds of 5.56 I forgot about, 250 new 30-06 cases, an 8# keg of H4350 that is unopened and 3 new Benchmade automatics that I forgot I own.
Want to sell one of those blades? Because while I think the republic will survive, I'll never say no to a good knife. ;D
FQ13
PM me if you want to sell.
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Want to sell one of those blades? Because while I think the republic will survive, I'll never say no to a good knife. ;D
FQ13
PM me if you want to sell.
I don't think you can sell automatics across state lines without being a dealer. Evil Black Knives are dangerous. ::)
I know I can't send in one of my autos to Benchmade for repair and have them send it back, it has to be sent to a dealer.
If I find out different, I'll let you know.
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People collecting gold as a "secure investment" fascinates me. In times like right now yes, it's gone up in value because people are told it's worth more by the media. RIGHT NOW, that's all it takes. Endorsement by the media for anything to have value.
So lets say things degrade any further and the value of the $ has collapsed... With that kind of turmoil and unrest in the streets outside exactly what the He## do I want with your gold?
Here you are. No food, water, shelter, but a 40lb bag of coins. Yeah, good luck with that! EXCELLENT INVESTMENT! ::) The only thing your going to get in exchange is someone may be kind enough to take it from you and beat you to death with it. Ending your long slow death from starvation early. ::)
Don't believe it'll ever go that far? Then your still an idiot for not having sold your shiny when it was at its peak value. NOW! Any "recovery" made in our economy is only going to cause your shiny to loose the imagined value it's been assigned. UNLOAD IT!
BUY GUNS!!! ;D Gold has gone up in value? What do you think the mint condition Winchester M1 Carbine I bought 10 years ago for $189 has done?
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And here, oddly enough, I agree with Badger. If things go far enough south that gold coins are accepted as currency? I'm willing to bet that ammo or MREs will trade for a lot higher on the market and they are both much cheaper and more useful. ;)
FQ13
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I don't think you can sell automatics across state lines without being a dealer. Evil Black Knives are dangerous. ::)
I know I can't send in one of my autos to Benchmade for repair and have them send it back, it has to be sent to a dealer.
If I find out different, I'll let you know.
For god's sake, I can sell you a Glock across state lines. Seriously, if you in Arizona, and me in Florida, two of the most pro-2A states in the union can't sell freaking pocket knives to each other its time for a revolution. That is utterly absurd.
FQ13 who will take a midol and calm down, but honestly, tell me you aren't pissed about legal issues surrounding selling pocket knives? AAAARGH! I HATE POLITICIANS! I HATE SARAH BRADY AND I HATE ANYONE WHO THINKS THE NANNY STATE IS A GOOD IDEA! f..k THEM ALL!
There, I'm all better now. I reccomend you try a rant yourself, it really does make your day better. ;)
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Sucks to live in one of those oppressive states. I can carry switch blades, swords, axes, or any other thing I can afford.
Oh yeah, I don't pay any taxes when I buy them either. ;D
Do you ever drink decaff Rastus? Here's the deal. It ain't that bad. We've been through worse, far worse, and survived. And if you think we have traitors rather than idiots in charge? Well, explain the War of 1812, WWI, and WWII. Sorry, I don't think we are worse off now than we were then. So lighten up Francis! ;D
FQ!3
But we have already established that you are either a Liberal or a blooming idiot.
And you just confirmed it.
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Sucks to live in one of those oppressive states. I can carry switch blades, swords, axes, or any other thing I can afford.
Oh yeah, I don't pay any taxes when I buy them either. ;D
I do have to pay taxes on purchases but no matter what state you live in, interstate commerce is regulated by the feds.
I too can carry whatever I want, auto knives, swords, etc. Whether it is class III, Title 2 or whatever, if I got the feds blessing on the suppressor, fullauto MP5 or whatnot I can carry it - open or concealed without a permit. If it's not Class III then all bets are off anyway. I'm good to go.
It doesn't suck living in AZ except during June, July and August....but you don't have to shovel heat. October thru April/May is Chamber of Commerce weather. ;D
For god's sake, I can sell you a Glock across state lines. Seriously, if you in Arizona, and me in Florida, two of the most pro-2A states in the union can't sell freaking pocket knives to each other its time for a revolution. That is utterly absurd.
FQ13 who will take a midol and calm down, but honestly, tell me you aren't pissed about legal issues surrounding selling pocket knives? AAAARGH! I HATE POLITICIANS! I HATE SARAH BRADY AND I HATE ANYONE WHO THINKS THE NANNY STATE IS A GOOD IDEA! f..k THEM ALL!
I agree, F@CK THEM ALL!! You could sell me a Glock but it would have to go through a dealer.
Does it make ANY sense that I can sell FQ my tactical Randall, (that I bought from Florida directly from the maker) with a 7" blade, the top 2" of which will shave hair just like the 6.5" on the other side, but a 4" knife that opens with the push of a button is somehow more dangerous?
It's just another example of politicians not knowing their ass from a hole in the ground. The original auto knives were marketed to women so they wouldn't break a nail by pulling open a regular pocker knife. Congress must have watched West Side Story and thought, "Gee, gang members use those! We need to pass a law!"
IDIOTS!!
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Here you are. No food, water, shelter, but a 40lb bag of coins. Yeah, good luck with that! EXCELLENT INVESTMENT! ::) The only thing your going to get in exchange is someone may be kind enough to take it from you and beat you to death with it. Ending your long slow death from starvation early. ::)
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I think you are missing the point. Yes, food water and shelter first. Then if you have money left convert it into something that will have value in the next economy if you think today's economy is at risk. It's the way it's been done for centuries in Europe and it works.
People say gold has value only because "someone says it has value"...OK, big deal...it has value so go with it. When economies crash or currency becomes worthless or extremely devalued, like for instance the Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany, Austria, Arentenia, Peru, etc....people hold inflated paper that has little or no value in the "next" currency or currency standard. Why would you hold onto something that is going to have no value if you can convert it into something that has value in your future? You may not get dollar for dollar purchasing power...but if you have 10 cents on a dollar then that's better than zero cents on the dollar and the truth is it may have positive multiples not too long after a new currency standard is established.
I agree with you needing to stay alive, but preparations to carry your sweat equity, the value of your labor in this economy to the next economy is important to.
And...those of us who prepare...we can always sell some food to those who have only bags of gold. When there is another side, the bag of gold will undeniably be quite nice to possess. The world generally does not stay in perpetual Mel Gibson road warrior hell after conflict or crash, it improves to some level. I have a German friend who was a teenager in WWII who became a US citizen, served in the US military and who lived through about the worst that can be thrown at a people in the way of economics. I value very much his lessons born of actual experience and hardship with additional references to failed economies across the world and time. IN WWII and immediately after people from the German cities streamed out into the countryside to buy a piece of meat, a little flour for bread, etc....the farmers who foolishly took paper had nothing after the war. The farmers who traded for a Rolex or a ring had new barns, tractors, etc. after the war.
Lesson learned?
Saying one is foolish to invest in gold and silver if you can is shortsighted. If you have to bug out can you carry more value in guns or gold? I already know that answer.
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One other thing. For instance, in Austria after WWII they spent so much money they did not have they had to call in the currency 11 to 1 (10 to 1?). Anyway, I'm close when I say 1100 marks of old currency were converted to 100 marks of the new currency and that pleased the international bankers.
Just printing new money did not "do it". What happened was that the conversion was limited to 1100 marks per person. Forget that you may have millions of marks or hundreds of thousands or marks or tens of thousands of marks, you were allowed to convert only 1100 per man woman and child. Quite a cruel tax wasn't it? Strong medicine taken by the workers and producers and unfelt by the people who blew their money or lived off the government.
So, they announced the swap deal on a Monday and you could convert at your local bank on Thursday. Only Thursday and only once...miss it and too bad.
The only play on that was coinage. Coinage was not called in because it is 1) too expensive to recall and 2) a small portion of the entire amount of money in the system. On that Friday coins went over at par which was an 11 to 1 multiple increase in buying power. So with super hyper-inflation if coins become worthless it may be good at the "apogee" or end of a currency to swap to coins....if they haven't all been melted down.
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Hell yeah! I need to get more bullets before the price goes up.
Wal-Mart just raised the price of their Federal Champion 9 MM from $10.47 a box, to $11.97. It won't stop there either. Bill T.
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Suppose, and I think this may be entirely possible. As the governments are recovering and establishing their new economy they decide to base the value of their currency on something they have more control over the distribution of? Platinum, whatever it may be. I'm sure they can come up with something.
Bullets are still bullets. EVERYBODY wants them (especially in said times). They retain their value.
Gold. Well, some think it's pretty plating on 22" rims for a '87 Buick. :-\
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Gold. Well, some think it's pretty plating on 22" rims for a '87 Buick.
Just the ones who think "value" is something the gubbermint in Washnon sends you every month to pay for them. Bill T.
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Just remember people, on Monday October 19, 1987 the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped by 508 points to 1738.74 (22.61%). We're all still here. Don't go jumping out of windows, or burying the coffee cans of silver just yet. Bill T.
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Since I've been keeping track, I will point out that Billt has been consistently wrong in his political and economic predictions.
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Since I've been keeping track, I will point out that Billt has been consistently wrong in his political and economic predictions.
Well hell, don't just stop there! What floor window will you be jumping out of? Bill T.
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"Gold Jumps $40 Today"
Gold drops $16.00+ today. Fixed it for ya' (1:26 Pacific Time). Bill T.
http://goldprice.org/
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Well hell, don't just stop there! What floor window will you be jumping out of? Bill T.
Not in the market, but I'll rent you a 10th floor window for a minute.
Dow is down 10% as of 4PM.
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Not in the market, but I'll rent you a 10th floor window for a minute.
Dow is down 10% as of 4PM.
And?
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Look, the world isn't ending as we know it. A sellers market today will be a buyers market tomorrow, or next week, or whenever. Don't start sounding like these guys on these survival forums who want everything to crash. Is the economy bad? Yes. Could it get worse? Certainly. Is this going to mean blood in the streets? Not yet, and not by a long shot.
People are waiting to overreact, and coming up with endless excuses for it. Companies are sitting on a lot of cash. No one is hiring because they are afraid. Hussein is on borrowed time. All that is happening is a lot of talk, along with reactionary jerking. Do you see the big money people pulling out, buying silver, and heading for the hills? No, and you won't. Gold and silver tumbled along with the Dow and S&P. That should tell you something right there. If one dumped and the other went to Pluto, there might be something to worry about. Silver and gold are both over inflated at the present time. It's only the camo cowboys hiding in mommies basement that think much different, and who cares what they think? Last I looked no one got financial advice on a survival forum.
Today there was a sell off. Tomorrow there very well might be another one. Stocks are way overpriced, and have been for a while. Does it make sense housing and real estate has dumped over 65% in many areas, while the Dow holds at 12,000? Not hardly. This has been a long time coming. Bill T.
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Gold will continue to rise.
http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Gold-price-predictions-for-2011-34867-3-1.html
Dollar flux, make folks nervous, internationally.....Sure it will pull back,...a few bucks compared to the Dow? Trillions were lost over the last week (on paper), gold dropped a few bucks, so did oil..
Uncertainty makes the "market" schizophrenic.....With this great debt resolution taking effect you can see it achieved the desired result...
Never let a crises go to waste.....
I don't think anyone will jump out of windows, as previous crashes were leveraged...The SEC tightened up it's regs since then, and we'll just have to see how much worse it gets...
As there is no good news as of late....
Ex. Oil dropped a good bit to $86-88 per barrel,....how fast do you think it will get to the pump,??????
It won't.
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Gold will continue to rise.
Absolutely since we are tacking on 7 trillion in debt over the next 10 years....at a minimum.
Dollar flux, make folks nervous, internationally.....Sure it will pull back,...a few bucks compared to the Dow? Trillions were lost over the last week (on paper), gold dropped a few bucks, so did oil..
Gold supposedly dropped because of sales to cover margin calls. We'll see..but that's the only reason I can see for gold going down today.
The SEC tightened up it's regs since then, and we'll just have to see how much worse it gets...
I have less faith and a big part of that is demonstrated lack of enforcement and creative bookkeeping to be in technical compliance.
As there is no good news as of late....
Might sound pretty good in a couple of years though.....
Ex. Oil dropped a good bit to $86-88 per barrel,....how fast do you think it will get to the pump,??????
It won't.
Never really has, the middleman and the people who sell you a pint of water for $1.40 (who are always losing money by the way) will keep the price up....my company has price adjustments down tomorrow on the oil we sell...but you are right you won't see it at the pump.
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Many of you do not seem to understand.
If you graph it out on a chart the current economic situation mirrors the events of 1929, only deeper.
Today's mini crash has been predicted for a couple years, it is a demonstrable result of governments continued meddling with the economy.
Never forget, in 1942, or 43, Congress held hearings into the "Great Depression", they were overshadowed by the war and never got the attention they deserved.
At that time, Morganthau, the Secretary of the Treasury testified that all the millions that had been spent accomplished nothing. Take away the war and there would still be no jobs . This was born out by the massive unemployment at the close of the war. It took the beginning of the Cold war and the rise of the automobile to get things going again coupled with exports to a still crippled Europe.
We don't have those options any more. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are keeping 500,000 people off the unemployment rolls, but due to the complexity of modern military hardware you can no longer manufacture cars, or spatula's today and tanks or knife sheaths tomorrow. (Look a the original sheaths for British Commando daggers ;D )
With Europe failing economically we can't rely on filling their manufacturing shortfalls because we have out sourced all our manufacturing. You notice that places like China,and Malaya aren't doing to badly ?
We are f*cked, and the only way out is to cut all government spending to the bone immediately, Make the Bush tax cuts permanent, start drilling our own oil, and get Govt. the hell out of the private sector completely .
That will lower oil prices, bring stability to the market and give an incentive to investors who are currently sitting on their cash rather than investing and losing it to taxes and GM style nationalization.
This will create jobs which will put more people paying taxes which leads to increased revenue to pay off the debt, which will lead to further growth which will mean more jobs and more tax revenue etc etc.
Of course liberals and idiots don't learn from history, they just repeat it.
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Many of you do not seem to understand.
<snip>
Of course liberals and idiots don't learn from history, they just repeat it.
Certainly this is not the same as the recessions of the 60's, 70's and 80's. The dynamics are far different. We actually have people in office running the country who want to crash the system to build some kind of European style utopian government paradise...then there is that selfish thing for power, money and never-ending greed. This stock market "plunge" is far from over...it may take a bit to hit bottom, but this "ain't nothin' yet".
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It'll have little ups and downs, but the basic trend will either be flat or down.
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NOT to take the side of our worthless pc a $#it government! But with their media scare tactics aside. If I and most people I know sat back and really look at what we've got at the time in life we're at, we're ahead of where our parents were at the same age.
And it's not because we worked any harder to get it!
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NOT to take the side of our worthless pc a $#it government! But with their media scare tactics aside. If I and most people I know sat back and really look at what we've got at the time in life we're at, we're ahead of where our parents were at the same age.
And it's not because we worked any harder to get it!
This is not a trick question and I agree with you. Why do you think your standard of living is better?
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NOT to take the side of our worthless pc a $#it government! But with their media scare tactics aside. If I and most people I know sat back and really look at what we've got at the time in life we're at, we're ahead of where our parents were at the same age.
And it's not because we worked any harder to get it!
IF you are better off, congratulations. You are one of the few I know. Most of my contemporaries (62 + years) are scrambling to meet obligations. My own dad retired completely at 62. He and Mom had a nice stock portfolio, money in the bank, and a great pension plan with solid medical benefits. Thank God for the VA, or I would be a total cripple at this point in my life. And we still struggle to pay Bunny's insurance every month. One pal is 80 and is still putting in 20 hours a week with West Marine because his retirement plan just plain ran out of funds. Me and mine? I am hoping there's gonna be something left for me to inherit. And I did it all correctly--saving, investing, living below my means and banking the rest. Between stock market crashes, real estate crashes, and inflation, I am not quite destitute, but I won't have anywhere near the retirement my folks have enjoyed.
So Badger, if you are living above your raising, get on your knees and thank the Man Upstairs. You're one of the few I know.
Sheesh...
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BM, How much of that "stuff" do you own, and how much of it does the bank own ?
The trend for the last 20-30 years has been that you will not do as well as your parents did.
The trend of upward mobility in American society has been slowing for decades.
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We were in debt up to our #@@'s just a few years back. But we sold off a lot of the high dollar toys, along with the biggest mistake we ever made in all our lives / the source of 70% of our total debt and spending. Yep, the house. Anyone who thinks they "own" a house is simply a fool to the media. Miss a single tax payment, see how long you "own" that house. Local government wants your land? "Imminent domain", out the door you go! Upkeep, taxs, repair expenses, it goes on and on and on. "Own" a house ::).
Our total outlay of cash now. Rent, elec., phone, internet/cable, car expenses (insurance, tags). We have cash in the bank, a grand total of $240 in credit card debt (you have to use the card to maintain your credit rating), own our car, and have a third scooter on the way as I type this. With the money we got from selling off all our old stuff we moved here and bought everything in our home new in the last two years.
I'm 41 and partially retired. My dad worked till he was 67 because... You guessed it, paying on their house.
Yeah, I was dumb enough to buy a house. Actually, talked into it by my retarded @$$ father in law! >:( And got buried in debt just like him and the rest of the country. After a trip overseas we saw just how STUPID americans are! Saw the way we were living for what it was, and got out of it! Anyone can do it. It's called living within your means.
Lots of people growl about our country needing to learn how to do it. How can you say they're fools if you can't do it in your own home?
The delivery guy who dropped off our last scooter a few days ago said. "You've got money, why don't you get a big'ol Harley or something?!?" All I could think was "Typical american". ::)
I served my country, and I'll start capitalizing the name of it again when I don't have to be ashamed of it. :(
And yeah, I thank God for what he's given me several times a day!
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Look, the world isn't ending as we know it. A sellers market today will be a buyers market tomorrow, or next week, or whenever. Don't start sounding like these guys on these survival forums who want everything to crash. Is the economy bad? Yes. Could it get worse? Certainly. Is this going to mean blood in the streets? Not yet, and not by a long shot.
People are waiting to overreact, and coming up with endless excuses for it. Companies are sitting on a lot of cash. No one is hiring because they are afraid. Hussein is on borrowed time. All that is happening is a lot of talk, along with reactionary jerking. Do you see the big money people pulling out, buying silver, and heading for the hills? No, and you won't. Gold and silver tumbled along with the Dow and S&P. That should tell you something right there. If one dumped and the other went to Pluto, there might be something to worry about. Silver and gold are both over inflated at the present time. It's only the camo cowboys hiding in mommies basement that think much different, and who cares what they think? Last I looked no one got financial advice on a survival forum.
Today there was a sell off. Tomorrow there very well might be another one. Stocks are way overpriced, and have been for a while. Does it make sense housing and real estate has dumped over 65% in many areas, while the Dow holds at 12,000? Not hardly. This has been a long time coming. Bill T.
Yes! You sort of do.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=17144.0
http://news.yahoo.com/more-faa-shutdown-air-subsidies-071241612.html
WASHINGTON (AP) — On the surface, the partial shutdown of the Federal Aviation Administration is about whether to cut $16 million in air service subsidies, a pretty small amount in this town. Underneath are layers upon layers of political gamesmanship that, at its heart, is about whether Democrats or Republicans get to call the shots in Congress.
The immediate price is high. Already, 4,000 FAA employees have been furloughed, more than 200 construction projects have been halted and an estimated 70,000 other private-sector workers affected. Air traffic controllers and safety inspectors remain on the job because the agency still has money from another pool of funds to pay them.
The government has been losing about $30 million a day in uncollected airline ticket taxes since the shutdown began on July 23, when FAA's operating authority expired. If it's not resolved until after Congress returns from its August recess in early September, lost revenue will tally about $1.2 billion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More at link >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://news.yahoo.com/stocks-plunge-economic-europe-worries-continue-164535320.html
NEW YORK (AP) — The Dow Jones industrial average plunged more than 300 points and erased its gains for the year as investors grew more concerned about economic weakness in the U.S. and Europe.
The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell more than 3 percent, bringing it 10 percent below its recent high of 1,363 reached on April 29. A decline of 10 percent is considered to be a market correction. The Dow Jones industrial average is now down more than 1,100 points from July 21.
Oil fell 4 percent to $88 a barrel on worries demand will fall because of the slowing economy. Oil had traded over $100 as recently as June 9.
"We are continuing to be bombarded by worries about the global economy," said Bill Stone, chief investment strategist at PNC Financial.
The Dow Jones industrial average fell 325 points, or 2.7 percent, to 11,571 in midday trading. The S&P 500 lost 39, or 3.3 percent, to 1,221. The Nasdaq composite shed 89, or 3.3 percent, to 2,603. The losses in the Dow were the largest since June 2010, when it fell 323 points.
Money poured into investments that are seen as relatively safe when markets are turbulent. Gold rose 1 percent to $1,680 an ounce. The yield on the 10-year Treasury note fell to 2.51 percent, its lowest level of the year. The yield on the 2-year Treasury note hit a record low of 0.265 percent. Bond yields fall when demand for them increases.
Large investors have moved so much money into cash accounts at Bank of New York that on Thursday the bank said it would begin charging some clients a 0.13 percent fee to hold their cash.
"In the past month, we have seen a growing level of deposits on our balance sheet from clients seeking a safe-haven in light of the global interest rate and credit environment," the bank said in a statement to The Associated Press. Bank of New York clients include pension funds and large investment houses.
"Investors are deciding that now is the time to take risk off the table," said Brian Gendreau, market strategist for Cetera Financial Group. Gendreau said that some investors are now wondering whether stocks will have a prolonged slump similar to the aftermath of the Great Depression.
European stocks fell broadly because of concerns that Italy or Spain may need help from the European Union. The benchmark stock indexes in Italy, Germany and England each fell 3 percent.
Companies that make most of their profits when the global economy expands fell the most. Caterpillar, Alcoa and Chevron led the Dow lower with losses of nearly 4 percent each.
Some traders are selling ahead of Friday's employment report, which is expected to show that unemployment remained at 9.2 percent last month. A rise in the unemployment number would likely push stocks lower again.
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So much for "Recovery".
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We were in debt up to our #@@'s just a few years back. But we sold off a lot of the high dollar toys, along with the biggest mistake we ever made in all our lives / the source of 70% of our total debt and spending. Yep, the house. Anyone who thinks they "own" a house is simply a fool to the media. Miss a single tax payment, see how long you "own" that house. Local government wants your land? "Imminent domain", out the door you go! Upkeep, taxs, repair expenses, it goes on and on and on. "Own" a house ::).
Our total outlay of cash now. Rent, elec., phone, internet/cable, car expenses (insurance, tags). We have cash in the bank, a grand total of $240 in credit card debt (you have to use the card to maintain your credit rating), own our car, and have a third scooter on the way as I type this. With the money we got from selling off all our old stuff we moved here and bought everything in our home new in the last two years.
I'm 41 and partially retired. My dad worked till he was 67 because... You guessed it, paying on their house.
Yeah, I was dumb enough to buy a house. Actually, talked into it by my retarded @$$ father in law! >:( And got buried in debt just like him and the rest of the country. After a trip overseas we saw just how STUPID americans are! Saw the way we were living for what it was, and got out of it! Anyone can do it. It's called living within your means.
Lots of people growl about our country needing to learn how to do it. How can you say they're fools if you can't do it in your own home?
The delivery guy who dropped off our last scooter a few days ago said. "You've got money, why don't you get a big'ol Harley or something?!?" All I could think was "Typical american". ::)
I served my country, and I'll start capitalizing the name of it again when I don't have to be ashamed of it. :(
And yeah, I thank God for what he's given me several times a day!
I am confused. How is owning your home, even if you have a REASONABLE mortgage stupid? I can understand if you get sucked in with a predatory lender and talked into a mortgage that you couldn't afford. But paying a mortgage on a modest house with payments that you can afford is never a stupid investment. Especially if you consider that (in my area at least) a crappy 2 bedroom apt. costs more to rent than my mortgage. And I live in a pretty nice house.
Also consider this. (a better example) A house on the next street from me is being rented by 3 of my friends. They pay $1900 per month in rent. (combined) For basically the same house that I have a $1000 a month mortgage on. Plus I have the benefit of owning a little bit more every time I make a payment. So at the end of the day, who is better off? Best part, there will come a day in about 12 more years that I won't have a mortgage, but they will still have that rent, and dollars to doughnuts it will have gone up by then...
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What BM is saying is that he was a dumb f#@k and spent too much on a house. By his reasoning everyone is a dumb f#@k and makes the same mistakes as him.
Owning or renting is money out the door. So what, I have to pay property taxes. Guess what, so do renters, it's just added in. Oh, you don't have to spend money on upkeep? It's part of your rent moron.
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The only advantage that I see to renting is that someone else is responsible for fixing stuff. However, that can really bite you in the a$$ when they take forever to fix it.
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What BM doesn't get is that his parents did own a home that they bought for say $25,000 and could turn around and sell 20 or 30 years later for 100 to 200 thousand.
All that expense and labor he's bitching about was money in the bank for them.
He talks about "eminent domain". It doesn't happen to most people and he is in no better shape if his landlord decides to sell or loses it to the same thing.
In fact, he's much worse off because he is paying as much or more than a mortgage with nothing to show for it except a bunch of rent receipts.
So he is an example of the trend, he can not do as well as his parents did.
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Whatever you gotta tell yourselves. ;D
Just be careful about the pot calling the kettle black when you line up to cry about government being in debt. ;)
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Whatever you gotta tell yourselves. ;D
Just be careful about the pot calling the kettle black when you line up to cry about government being in debt. ;)
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OK, so do I have the best of both worlds or the worse?
I own a home and I rent.
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I purchased my first house in 1993, as a newlywed at 24,...small new "starter home",..for $78,500 at 8.25% (great rate back than). Sold it in 1996 for $125,000 walked away with more than a 20% down payment, on a slightly larger home, and flipped it for a tidy profit, even with an amicable divorce thrown in the mix.
Rented for a while, and remarried. Bought and sold houses together, (during the good times),...and walked away with enough to keep the 20% down, (no PMI), and low interest rates.
UNTIL, 2008. We scrambled to sell at the beginning of the real estate death spiral, and only came out "slightly" ahead. Thanks to record low interest rates, and good financial planning, saving, etc,....We bought a nice home here in S. Florida with a 4.75% fixed rate and a very reasonable mortgage payment lower than comparable rent in Coral Springs.
If I can just hopefully "ride" this BS out, I am optimistic (still?),...that Post BHO,...we will truly recover, and I can sell again for a profit.
Thankfully, I am not upside-down. Than I move to Texas, and have a rifle range in my back yard,.... ;)
Point being, Home ownership is IMHO, something I can truly say is worth it. Nice escrow check in December, tax deductions, and no landlord,....Sure me and the bank own it,...but I consider it leverage, in my favor, until I can finally pay cash for a house, (and range).... ;D
Just my .02 cents.
Nothing wrong with renting/leasing, but tangible assets, including a finite resource like property, can help.
"You Need Me On That Wall!"...... ;)
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If you really gotta know... My household income the year my parents retired was just a smidge over three times as much. My mortgage was just under half my monthly take home... Soooo, where does that leave your theory's? Anything else?
If you believe "owning" a home is best... Great. All depends how much you prioritize your finances. YET, you tell me. If you miss a payment on something, and it is then taken from you by either the IRS or mortgage company, was it ever really "yours"? ::)
My father inlaw will argue that rent is 100% throwing money away all day long! I've got enough to retire on in the bank right now. He's almost 70 and in debt up to his @$$, owes money on everything he "owns". Yeah, he's the smart one. ;)
Keep on dreamin the dream america. ;)
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My father inlaw will argue that rent is 100% throwing money away all day long!
On that point he is right. You just need to buy a house that is within your means.
Someone buys a house and after the mortgage term they own it. You pay rent for the same amount of time and you own what?
All you did was make their mortgage payment (and their taxes) for them.
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One thing that may be slipping the reality check here... My rent is almost exactly HALF what he pays a month for a house in the same quality of neighborhood.
But I'll leave it at that. I learned years ago with him this arguement is pointless. The pride of saying "I OWN A HOME" is all that matters. This is american dam# it! ;)
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It's about good financial planning, and a bit of control. Sure I want a Barrett, a fat ZO-6 and a boat,....have wanted them for a long while.
My Father gave me a scenario I witnessed first hand many times....
Young married couple, combined make $250,000 a year,...with that, they bought a McMansion in an exclusive neighborhood, he drives an Escalade, she drives a BMW, together they have 10 credit/dept. store/ gas/ etc,.. credit cards,....Oh,...and the kids go to a pricey private school.
They keep up with the "Jones's" and owe on everything.....Their disposable income, at the end of the month, is nothing.....
YET, a couple/person,...who lives modestly, car is older but paid off, credit card debt is nil, or insignificant, and has no other debt, besides a modest mortgage, ACTUALLY LIVES RICHER than the "rich folk"...
I try to adhere to the latter....My car, (and wife's) is paid for, my CC debt is nil. Child support, (for another 1 1/2) and mortgage/utilities is all we pay....
No fancy dept. store cards, or gas cards,....use our debit card,...stay on a budget,...and have some financial control.
I must admit, in a SHTF scenario,...renting is more practical. But my house is on a corner lot and ranges to 500yds. are easily obtained.
8)
Each one of us, has our own deal,...what works for you, may not work for me,...the point is,...get out of debt, live within your means, (unlike our Gov't),,,,,and keep your stocks up.
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I'm with TW.....I have less debt than most but not nil, (I had a really bad year), but, I understand better than most what spending beyond my means can do!
I have fifteen good years to work, I'll be dept free in two or three with the plan I've devised. There may be some bumps in the road but I have no choice but to persevere and drive forward!
I would love a few more firearms but I have enough to perform the duties required and will wait for a more suitable time.
I will say this TW, a pedicure isn't too expensive. I've noticed that you've got some pretty substantial big toes pal!
;)
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I just couldn't resist posting Nicholson ;D
TW mentions "we all have our own situation" true, I'm not talking about individuals, there are still laborers who help their kid become a Dr , but its darned rare.
I'm talking about trends for society, and in that BM actually reinforces my point. His parents bought and paid for their own home, plus raised kids, on a third what he earned.
Home ownership, your own land, and house, pretty much was the American dream, there have always been some who couldn't swing it, or city dwellers where the space just does not permit it. the point is that the percentage of those who can't make it has sky rocketed over the last few decades.
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Home ownership, your own land, and house, pretty much was the American dream, there have always been some who couldn't swing it, or city dwellers where the space just does not permit it. the point is that the percentage of those who can't make it has sky rocketed over the last few decades.
+1 Underlying cause, I will attest, is lack of serious commitment to obligations. Back in the day, a handshake, a handwritten napkin contract, a verbal agreement, meant what it meant.
Now,...times are tough, The deal now is, a lot of folks bought a $185,000 house as a part-time Waffle House Employee, and got laid off, underwriters approved it, and than they walked away, after gutting the house,....or short sales, or foreclosure,...which dragged down the other houses values.
Carter started it,....no really he did,...look it up...Clinton expanded and ran with it, Bush 1&2, ignored it until the end, and Barney Frank said all is well...
Check my post on current foreclosures/ and economic sit. since 09.....
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I lost a house under eminent domain. I made out rather well. ;D
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Don't talk about the burger flippers who tried to buy a house through Fanny and Freddy, a lot of those bad loans were to people who put their faith in companies like Enron, Wang, and Lucent.
That only addresses a short term part of the problem. The long term problem is a major decline in economic upward mobility.
When BM's parents bought their house and raised their kids it was still fairly common to spend a career with one company.
My Uncle started as a janitor after school at a Ford dealership, He retired as South East Regional sales manager for their parts division (Delco ? )
In My career I have worked for both large and small companies and the longest I've been with one was 8 years, I worked at T/C a total of 6 years, neither of those companies exist any more, they were victims, not of poor product, or poor management but simply of modern economic realities.
Upward mobility requires a stable economy, it is not possible when you have to keep starting over as "The new guy" every 5 - 10 years.
I read in Monster that it is now common to change careers 3 times during a working lifetime, that type of instability leads to an effective caste system, a stratification of society where the level you start at, if you work hard and do good, is where you'll be when you die. With the general trend of change being downward.
Fortunately the house of cards is beg
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I am confused. How is owning your home, even if you have a REASONABLE mortgage stupid? I can understand if you get sucked in with a predatory lender and talked into a mortgage that you couldn't afford. But paying a mortgage on a modest house with payments that you can afford is never a stupid investment. Especially if you consider that (in my area at least) a crappy 2 bedroom apt. costs more to rent than my mortgage. And I live in a pretty nice house.
Also consider this. (a better example) A house on the next street from me is being rented by 3 of my friends. They pay $1900 per month in rent. (combined) For basically the same house that I have a $1000 a month mortgage on. Plus I have the benefit of owning a little bit more every time I make a payment. So at the end of the day, who is better off? Best part, there will come a day in about 12 more years that I won't have a mortgage, but they will still have that rent, and dollars to doughnuts it will have gone up by then...
I had a rich uncle-in-law. Many millions rich. He talked of a man who really was able to accomplish something...started as a pauper and now was one of the richest men in the country....not my U-I-L, but the man he was talking about. I asked my U-I-L how the guy did it. U-I-L said "He had 10 million to invest and he turned it into a fortune." Let me know two things....that this U-I-L traveled in different circles than I do, and, second, why I'd never be rich.....I'd stop working at it, satisfied, well before I became a $10 million pauper.
But he did say something that made me think.
He was talking about owning your own home. He said "Owning your own home is like taking $250,000 (or the value of your home) and burying it in your back yard." He would invest the money tied up in the house in what every he was working on and "turn it into" another fortune. Yes..he considered a loan for a house as wasted potential. If he could borrow that money, he'd put it to work, making more on it than the interest paid...and he knew how to work that one too.
Yes, few of us will have the drive or expertise to "turn" cash into a fortune, but his point still stands. You are burying your cash in your back yard.
Now it used to be a good investment and likely might become one again....sometime.
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Certainly this is not the same as the recessions of the 60's, 70's and 80's. The dynamics are far different. We actually have people in office running the country who want to crash the system to build some kind of European style utopian government paradise.
Not to mention, look at the idiots graduating from today's public schools, or the current drop out rate compared to what it was 40 years ago. People back then were not void of any and all financial common sense the way they are today. The housing crash never would have happened 40 years ago. Hussein would have never been elected in a 1960's or 70's America. He would not have received 3% of the vote. George McGovern was a flaming liberal in his day, and he was slaughtered by Nixon. JFK would be a right wing conservative in comparison to Hussein. The people who elected idiots like Hussein, Pelosi, and Reid have changed the way they think.
In today's "Generation X", a strong work ethic has been replaced with an attitude of entitlement. THAT in itself is what is destroying this nation, not the liberals they elect. They are simply the product of that thinking. Here is a good example:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/07/blame-game-vitriol-demonstrates-sp-disgust/
Liberal John Kerry blames the Tea Party for the nations recent credit downgrade because they prevented more taxes from being levied, not because the government is spending too much money. That is typical liberal thinking. The problem is there are far too many who believe him! There in lies the problem. A government is a sum of it's people, not the other way around. Bill T.