The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: CurrieS103 on March 20, 2008, 06:29:47 PM
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While we are all waiting for June to come...what do you think will happen when the Supreme Court rules?
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Just listening to the D.C. Mayor leads me to believe the ruling will stand in D.C. What a sucky place to live. :(
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Da peoples 'lected him, Outlaw. Just like when dey re'lected crack head Barry.
You get what you deserve. As long as we allow our voting process to be out of control (read illegals and welfare recipients voting) this crap will only get worse.
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I'm with you on that Haz
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Hope it comes out sufficiently our way, so that Mr. Heston's closing words do not have to come to pass.
But, if that's how it will be.. then that's how it will be. It's not just the guns. It's everything we ever worked for.
Mac & Family.
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Da peoples 'lected him, Outlaw. Just like when dey re'lected crack head Barry.
You get what you deserve. As long as we allow our voting process to be out of control (read illegals and welfare recipients voting) this crap will only get worse.
That's one smart cat! ;D
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Yep! Wonder how many lives he has left?
Mac.
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Yep! Wonder how many lives he has left?
Mac.
7 (two heart attacks so far(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-035.gif) )
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Dude...don't try for the hat-trick ;D
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Dude...don't try for the hat-trick ;D
My grandpappy on my Moms' side made it through 5 (but not 6) so I have a goal! ;D
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Your right...Everyone should have a goal in life!
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Yep! Wonder how many lives he has left?
Mac.
Less than he thinks if he keeps sassing me. ;D
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I think that things will change.. but I betcha they tack on SOME KIND of law to it that will once again.. make the law abiding person have to jump hoops to get their gun.
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Just listening to the D.C. Mayor leads me to believe the ruling will stand in D.C. What a sucky place to live. :(
What in hell does the DC Mayor have to do with how the court rules?
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Less than he thinks if he keeps sassing me. ;D
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I'll be good. Forgive me??
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Fun%20Stuff/PBEyes.jpg)
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Hazcat reaches new low...film at 11
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Hazcat reaches new low...film at 11
How dare you, Sir!
Defend yourself!
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Fun%20Stuff/PBSword.jpg)
Cause I'm...
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Fun%20Stuff/RamboCat.jpg)
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Fun%20Stuff/cat_machine_gun_cat.jpg)
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Com'on Haz...bring a knife to a gun fight? Here's mine...
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It doesn't take a thousand rounds...
Just one good one
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Fun%20Stuff/catsniper2.jpg)
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I agree...
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You get what you deserve. As long as we allow our voting process to be out of control (read illegals and welfare recipients voting) this crap will only get worse.
So we should disenfranchise welfare receipients huh?
The farmer who receives payments from the guvmint to NOT plant corn, wheat, soybeans, etc is on welfare. Let's disenfranchise the farmers.
Seniors receive welfare in the form of the prescription drug benefit. Let's disenfranchise the Seniors.
College students who recieve grants are on welfare. Let's disenfranchise college students.
Families who recieve child tax credits are on wefare. Let's disenfranchise couples with children.
Haz,
That statement infuriated me to the point I had to walk away this A.M. and settle down. When this country was founded only men of property were deemed worthy of casting a ballot. Women were denied the basic right to vote until the 2nd decade of the 20th century. Blacks were denied the right to vote in large sections of the good ole USA until the mid 1960s. The history of this nation for 200 years has been the fight to insure every citizen has the right to cast a ballot. People have been jailed and have given their lives so that all citizens may cast a ballot. I really hope you made that statement in the heat of the moment and that it is not your heartfelt postion.
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Clay,
If you don't work or pay taxes or own land then you shouldn't get to vote. Yes, that includes college students if they don't also fall into one of the aforementioned categories.
If you have no 'stake' except what you can 'get' then you should not vote. BTW I am against being paid not to grow/produce something. And subsidies like for sugar.
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I agree...
LOL! I guess you REALLY believe in that old saying "Go BIG or stay home!"
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Or Strength through superior firepower
P.S.
Sorry, I played with big toys for a long time.
Air Force...No one comes close.
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Or Strength through superior firepower
P.S.
Sorry, I played with big toys for a long time.
Air Force...No one comes close.
No problem, Dude. We had a saying when I was in the Army "We're all wearin' green so we're on the same team".
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Roger that! Team America...F*** yeah! (Ok...they said it better in the movie)
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Ditto on the U.S.A.F. I played with them for 20 years. I even worked on some of those lead sleds in Curries103 avatar above.
Just kidding Curries. I loved those old birds. A marine jock gave me a free ride in one back at Yokota Air Base, Japan. He let me fly it for a while. What a rush ;D Must have been a blast to fly em full time....
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Clay,
If you don't work or pay taxes or own land then you shouldn't get to vote. Yes, that includes college students if they don't also fall into one of the aforementioned categories.
If you have no 'stake' except what you can 'get' then you should not vote. BTW I am against being paid not to grow/produce something. And subsidies like for sugar.
I'm sorry to hear that Haz. Tells me a lot about you. Of course, you also fell for the North American Union conspiracy crap a while back. Why don't you join up with the John Birch Society and post your ignorant rantings there. Of course, if other forum members don't speak out against you that will tell me a lot about them too. Such BS has no place in public life in the U.S. I'm proud of my country and you want to take it backward to the middle ages. With liberals on the left and ignoramus' such as yourself on the right the Republic is doomed.
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Clay,
If you don't work or pay taxes or own land then you shouldn't get to vote. Yes, that includes college students if they don't also fall into one of the aforementioned categories.
If you have no 'stake' except what you can 'get' then you should not vote. BTW I am against being paid not to grow/produce something. And subsidies like for sugar.
If you are retired and had the sense to sell your house at the top of the housing bubble you can't vote? I stronly disagree.
You are allowed free speech and I will defend your right, but read the constitution. You set up a situation where the government nationalizes all property and no one can vote........... CITIZENS HAVE RIGHTS.
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If you are retired and had the sense to sell your house at the top of the housing bubble you can't vote? I stronly disagree.
You are allowed free speech and I will defend your right, but read the constitution. You set up a situation where the government nationalizes all property and no one can vote........... CITIZENS HAVE RIGHTS.
If you are retired and sold your house you most likely invested. In any case you have contributed to society for your entire life (as shown by retirement) so yes, you are a voting member as is anyone who has ever served in the Military and been honorably discharged.
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BTW, please point out in the Consitution where it says I have a right to vote.
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(http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/pow.gif)
Hey Guys~~......Time Out for a minute.
Please..................
I am going to make a request as a moderator..............
Don't anyone post ..until I say something here..
Thanks :-*
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I will just be straight up here..
I don't want this to go to the gravel but I understand how emotions can go overboard and through the roof on this one.
I have my own very strong opinions on this too as I read it.. but I also want this thread to remain civil.
We're all very emotionally charged over everything that's going on in our world right now. Illegals.. welfare.. gun control..corruption at every corner make all of us feel "out of control" with a tendency to start 'shooting from the hip'.
I'm probably the worst at knee jerk reactions and emotions. So I totally can relate to both Haz and Clay. ( on both spectrum's)
So......... take a breath.. settle down and lets dissect this without name calling and wild assed emotions. Okay?
No way am I trying to decide who has the better argument or who needs to back down or anything like that. I think if you believe strongly in something you should hold tight. We all here on this forum have our own beliefs and opinions and can freely speak them. I never want that to not be the case. Sometimes we'll agree with one another.. sometimes we won't.
I have my opinion and that is simply that. My opinion. Just because it lays more on one side of the barn more than the other side, doesn't make me any better or worse than the next person. Or that I won't at another time be on the other side of the barn more.
So..if opinions on these posts are REALLY what they are and each REALLY feels that way in full content ( and part isn't just a knee jerk..) then let's dissect and find out WHY .
This subject on this type of battlefield can become a great thread.... instead of a blood bath.
We have Hazcat and what he originally said.. And we have Clay and what his response is.
Both are equally charged with emotion.
Now, after saying that.. Lets take the "person" out of the posts...
Lets talk and discuss the subject and words..
Not "WHO" do you agree or disagree with .. but WHAT you agree or disagree with.
And I DO have my opinion ..which you all know I will give ;D..
But I hope we all get in this one and maturely "talk". ..and in the end agree to disagree and remain good friends in here.
Okay... Time Out's over.
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/popcorn3.gif)
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So we should disenfranchise welfare receipients huh?
The farmer who receives payments from the guvmint to NOT plant corn, wheat, soybeans, etc is on welfare. Let's disenfranchise the farmers.
Seniors receive welfare in the form of the prescription drug benefit. Let's disenfranchise the Seniors.
College students who recieve grants are on welfare. Let's disenfranchise college students.
Families who recieve child tax credits are on wefare. Let's disenfranchise couples with children.
Haz,
That statement infuriated me to the point I had to walk away this A.M. and settle down. When this country was founded only men of property were deemed worthy of casting a ballot. Women were denied the basic right to vote until the 2nd decade of the 20th century. Blacks were denied the right to vote in large sections of the good ole USA until the mid 1960s. The history of this nation for 200 years has been the fight to insure every citizen has the right to cast a ballot. People have been jailed and have given their lives so that all citizens may cast a ballot. I really hope you made that statement in the heat of the moment and that it is not your heartfelt postion.
If you are not contributing to society what right do you have to say how that society is governed ? If they want to vote let them get off their lazy a$$es and find a job. Just to get ahead of you here, I would exempt RETIREMENT pensions and MILITARY disability pensions, however, the rest of these people are leeches, THEY are a large part of the reason you pay high taxes, entitlement programs are a major burden on the taxpayer and help slow the economy. And I DON'T want to hear any of this "I'm disabled and can't work" crap, look at Stephen Hawking, he can't even move his own bowels, but provides for his family very nicely. Government hand outs leave the "welfare class" no incentive to do ANYTHING except vote for democrats who will give them more freebies. It also gives the socialists the chance to say "Well, since we are supporting you, we obviously know whats best for you." like Franklin said, "Those who would surrender liberty for security deserve neither."
Now please explain to me how racial discrimination against working blacks, or gender discrimination against working women has any relation to limiting the franchise to people who participate in society only by standing around with their hand out. In the early days of this country the right to vote was limited to property owners, as they were the source of jobs and investment capital, during the depression if you were on welfare (old timers called it being "on the town" ) you could not vote, buy tobacco, or alcohol. You seem to be mislead by the socialist "It's for the children" propaganda. Please think it through really hard, If possible read Larry Elders book 10 things you can't say in America, before you launch the blast I expect in return. And let me say now, I don't mean any offense, I just don't agree with you and I think your thinking may be clouded by the socialist propaganda we are ALL subjected to daily. It just happens that I have read a few books that put a differant interpetation on things which is why I suggested Elders book.
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Y'all know my opinion. Tom, said it better maybe, (don't let that go to your head, Tom :) ) but it is basically what my stance is.
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Amendment XXVI
Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.
Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
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Amendment XIX
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
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Amendment XV
Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
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BTW, please point out in the Consitution where it says I have a right to vote.
24th amendmant, The right of CITIZENS to vote .......shall not be denied or abridged for failure to pay poll or any other tax. (Paraphrased to save typing.)
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The history of the United States has been to insure and implement the RIGHT to vote to all citizens.
Any suggestion that any citizen should be deprived of the right to vote is antithetical to American history.
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OK XIX gave it to women, XXVI said as long as I am 18 you can't use age as a reason to stop me, XV removed race as a reason to stop me, and the 24th abolished poll taxes.
Where is my basic right to vote enumerated?
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Here is another that agrees that there is no BASIC right to vote in the Consitution.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060206/jackson
and more
The Constitution contains many phrases, clauses, and amendments detailing ways people cannot be denied the right to vote. You cannot deny the right to vote because of race or gender. Citizens of Washington DC can vote for President; 18-year-olds can vote; you can vote even if you fail to pay a poll tax. The Constitution also requires that anyone who can vote for the "most numerous branch" of their state legislature can vote for House members and Senate members.
Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example. It does require that Representatives be chosen and Senators be elected by "the People," and who comprises "the People" has been expanded by the aforementioned amendments several times. Aside from these requirements, though, the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld. For example, in Texas, persons declared mentally incompetent and felons currently in prison or on probation are denied the right to vote. It is interesting to note that though the 26th Amendment requires that 18-year-olds must be able to vote, states can allow persons younger than 18 to vote, if they chose to.
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html
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The history of the United States has been to insure and implement the RIGHT to vote to all citizens.
Any suggestion that any citizen should be deprived of the right to vote is antithetical to American history.
The question really is, Do welfare recipients, Those who do nothing but accept government charity, qualify as true citizens, compared to those who work, serve in the military and contribute to the society that that provides the hand outs that support them. It would seem that Haz and I agree that they do not, while Clay's position seems to be that all that is required is an American born or naturalized pulse. Does that sum it up in its simplist form ?
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The question really is, Do welfare recipients, Those who do nothing but accept government charity, qualify as true citizens, compared to those who work, serve in the military and contribute to the society that that provides the hand outs that support them. It would seem that Haz and I agree that they do not, while Clay's position seems to be that all that is required is an American born or naturalized pulse. Does that sum it up in its simplist form ?
Does for me.
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Here is another that agrees that there is no BASIC right to vote in the Consitution.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060206/jackson
and more
The Constitution contains many phrases, clauses, and amendments detailing ways people cannot be denied the right to vote. You cannot deny the right to vote because of race or gender. Citizens of Washington DC can vote for President; 18-year-olds can vote; you can vote even if you fail to pay a poll tax. The Constitution also requires that anyone who can vote for the "most numerous branch" of their state legislature can vote for House members and Senate members.
Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example. It does require that Representatives be chosen and Senators be elected by "the People," and who comprises "the People" has been expanded by the aforementioned amendments several times. Aside from these requirements, though, the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld. For example, in Texas, persons declared mentally incompetent and felons currently in prison or on probation are denied the right to vote. It is interesting to note that though the 26th Amendment requires that 18-year-olds must be able to vote, states can allow persons younger than 18 to vote, if they chose to.
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html
Haz is right on this, Article II of the constitution says (second para.) "Each state shall appoint, in such Manner as the legislature thereof may direct..." All the stuff about 18 and over, Blacks, women and tax debtors were amendmants concerning primaries and "other elections".
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I think late June will be a new beginning for the second amendment, but I cannot be a fortune teller and tell you which way it will go.
Yes, the Supreme Court will take a new stand and I do believe that the "individual right" will be reestablished as it was meant to be from day 1.
In a recent USA TODAY poll, a solid majority of Americans support the individual right to keep and bear arms.
Problem has been that the combination of knee jerk regulations through political maneuvers with the help of mainstream media has turned the 2nd amendment into a privilege instead of a constitutional right. Will that change after July 1? I doubt it.
When a right is so heavily regulated, it is not a right, it is privileges based on ever changing practicalities. 20,000+ federal, state and local firearms regulations is a living proof of that. The Supreme Court knows it. No matter how they write the ruling, it will have major consequences.
How do we define... or more important.... will the Supreme court ruling touch the question on how to define common sense regulations? Where is the line between a right and a privilege? I don't think the last question will be answered by the Supreme in a black and white setting.
The consequence will without a doubt be new platforms for both sides and the fight is not over.
It will just be a new fight with new arguments.
I have always believed that democracy and politics are also all about how a minority of people can get into a position where they can rule over the majority. This will also be the case after July 1.
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Marshal,
+1 on the majority of your post.
I disagree with your definition of democracy but it does fit politics to a "T".
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Clay, our nation at one time was in fact "The Land of Plenty", with hard working citizens who were full of compassion and self motivation to succeed. That surplus and generous character bloomed into a philosophy that, with a little help, even the struggling can prosper. Government became the vehicle of aid and comfort, and in it's vastness, lost accountability of how the recipients benefited from the assistance. Human nature being what is is, an ever growing number of Citizens have learned that "success" is developing methods to remain, undetected and unaccountable, on the public assistance rolls. Now, when those Citizens exercise their votes, it is without regard to the national consequence and with absolutely no responsibility to provide any resources in return.
I'm not talking about farmers who feed us, Seniors who have provided the prosperity we all enjoy, College students who have the motivation and skills to TRY to fix this mess, or the families who have already paid their withholding taxes. I'm taking issue with those who scam, sham and deceive, having never contributed to what should be united effort to improve our nation and the character of Her people. And yet they vote themselves more..and more, without a scintilla of shame or remorse. They are owed. Some could even argue that our efforts to "improve" on the Founding Father's methods of leadership have gone sadly awry.
Mac.
ps. sorry, I type slow.
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I disagree with your definition of democracy but it does fit politics to a "T".
I disagree too.... ;D
I was thinking more about the practical aspect of it.
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Clay, our nation at one time was in fact "The Land of Plenty", with hard working citizens who were full of compassion and self motivation to succeed. That surplus and generous character bloomed into a philosophy that, with a little help, even the struggling can prosper. Government became the vehicle of aid and comfort, and in it's vastness, lost accountability of how the recipients benefited from the assistance. Human nature being what is is, an ever growing number of Citizens have learned that "success" is developing methods to remain, undetected and unaccountable, on the public assistance rolls. Now, when those Citizens exercise their votes, it is without regard to the national consequence and with absolutely no responsibility to provide any resources in return.
I'm not talking about farmers who feed us, Seniors who have provided the prosperity we all enjoy, College students who have the motivation and skills to TRY to fix this mess, or the families who have already paid their withholding taxes. I'm taking issue with those who scam, sham and deceive, having never contributed to what should be united effort to improve our nation and the character of Her people. And yet they vote themselves more..and more, without a scintilla of shame or remorse. They are owed. Some could even argue that our efforts to "improve" on the Founding Father's methods of leadership have gone sadly awry.
Mac.
ps. sorry, I type slow.
Well said.
And I'm glad about your typing cause I read slow! ;)
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Clay, our nation at one time was in fact "The Land of Plenty", with hard working citizens who were full of compassion and self motivation to succeed. That surplus and generous character bloomed into a philosophy that, with a little help, even the struggling can prosper. Government became the vehicle of aid and comfort, and in it's vastness, lost accountability of how the recipients benefited from the assistance. Human nature being what is is, an ever growing number of Citizens have learned that "success" is developing methods to remain, undetected and unaccountable, on the public assistance rolls. Now, when those Citizens exercise their votes, it is without regard to the national consequence and with absolutely no responsibility to provide any resources in return.
I'm not talking about farmers who feed us, Seniors who have provided the prosperity we all enjoy, College students who have the motivation and skills to TRY to fix this mess, or the families who have already paid their withholding taxes. I'm taking issue with those who scam, sham and deceive, having never contributed to what should be united effort to improve our nation and the character of Her people. And yet they vote themselves more..and more, without a scintilla of shame or remorse. They are owed. Some could even argue that our efforts to "improve" on the Founding Father's methods of leadership have gone sadly awry.
Mac.
ps. sorry, I type slow.
Good things are worth waiting for. Well stated.
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I disagree too.... ;D
I was thinking more about the practical aspect of it.
And the unfortunate outcome all too often.
BTW glad you have a little time to 'play'.
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And the unfortunate outcome all too often.
BTW glad you have a little time to 'play'.
What do you mean, the black coffee probably hasn't worn off yet, and he STILL hasn't had any sleep ;D
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What do you mean, the black coffee probably hasn't worn off yet, and he STILL hasn't had any sleep ;D
You mean if we could see him his eyes would look like two pi$$ holes in the snow? (http://www.mazeguy.net/sad/tired.gif)
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You mean if we could see him his eyes would look like two pi$$ holes in the snow? (http://www.mazeguy.net/sad/tired.gif)
Exactly ! ;D
By the way, I see you just broke 1500 ;D
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By the way, I see you just broke 1500 ;D
It wasn't me, I didn't do it, you can't prove anything! (http://www.mazeguy.net/cartoon/bartsimpson.gif)
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Jeepers..... over 1500 posts? :o
What a frickin' wind bag! (http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/earsoffmoose.gif)
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Jeepers..... over 1500 posts? :o
What a frickin' wind bag! (http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/earsoffmoose.gif)
My sister was bitten by a moose...
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Jeepers..... over 1500 posts? :o
What a frickin' wind bag! (http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/earsoffmoose.gif)
He just has a lot to say.
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Thought the alligators took care of moose a long time ago?
Mac.
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Ditto on the U.S.A.F. I played with them for 20 years. I even worked on some of those lead sleds in Curries103 avatar above.
Just kidding Curries. I loved those old birds. A marine jock gave me a free ride in one back at Yokota Air Base, Japan. He let me fly it for a while. What a rush ;D Must have been a blast to fly em full time....
Flew 3 times in the '16 myself. Most fun I ever had with my close on. But back to more important things...I think I opened a can o' worms here.