The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on August 15, 2011, 12:58:45 PM
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Old text, new wrinkles: Did Butch Cassidy survive?
CHEYENNE, Wyo. (AP) — Did Butch Cassidy, the notorious Old West outlaw who most historians believe perished in a 1908 shootout in Bolivia, actually survive that battle and live to old age, peacefully and anonymously, in Washington state? And did he pen an autobiography detailing his exploits while cleverly casting the book as biography under another name?
A rare books collector says he has obtained a manuscript with new evidence that may give credence to that theory. The 200-page manuscript, "Bandit Invincible: The Story of Butch Cassidy," which dates to 1934, is twice as long as a previously known but unpublished novella of the same title by William T. Phillips, a machinist who died in Spokane in 1937.
Utah book collector Brent Ashworth and Montana author Larry Pointer say the text contains the best evidence yet — with details only Cassidy could have known — that "Bandit Invincible" was not biography but autobiography, and that Phillips himself was the legendary outlaw.
More at link:
http://news.yahoo.com/old-text-wrinkles-did-butch-cassidy-survive-083206159.html
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I have heard stories that claimed both survived Bolivia.
Like Billy the Kid, and Jesse James it makes for interesting speculation, although the claims by relatives, including a sister, that he visited in the 20's and 30's make it a lot harder to put down to imagination.
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Hi;
If true, just think of the sequel that Redford and Newman could have made !
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That reminds me, whatever became of Etta Place ?
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That reminds me, whatever became of Etta Place ?
She married Sam Elliott!
Oh! You mean the real one!
;D ;D
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Etta? No one knows. She left, presumably on a steamer to San Francisco, and disappeared into history.
As for Butch and Sundance, recent excavations in Bolivia did find 2 bodies, but neither belonged to B&S. Some azzhole on FB claimed that didn't prove anything, as lots of people were buried in that cemetery and they didn't dig everyone up. He then said that the excavations didn't prove that they weren't buried there. Never did get the point I made that you cannot prove a negative. Ah, the idjiots on teh intertubes! It's clear that 2 Anglo bandidos are buried in that cemetery, just not B&S, whose ID was done by Pinkertons from "eye witnesses" well after the 2 were dead and buried.
I for one land on the side of them surviving if only because of the sister's testimony - on film - that Butch came to visit her and the artifacts that she had that can be traced to photographs of Butch wearing some of them. Not definitive to be sure, but compelling at the least.
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Redford wrote a book in 81 I think called The Outlaw Trail: A Journey Through Time. If I remember corrctly it is a good read and he talked about Butch's sister. If I rember correctly Butch's sister hunted and slept outdoors well into her senior years. I think she carried a Winchester lever gun.
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I may have Butch's sisiter confused with Ann Bassett, his one time girlfriend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Bassett
It was along time ago that I read the book.
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Butch Cassidy was just one of several Outlaws who's end, while reported are still in doubt.
There were of course Billy the Kid and Jesse James, there was also my Fathers Great Uncle for whom he was named.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Bogan
Dan Bogan (1860 - after 1889) was an American gunfighter and outlaw of the American Old West, who today is considered to have been one of the most underrated gunmen of the 19th century west. He is included as one of twelve described in such a way, in the book "Deadly Dozen", by author Robert K. DeArment.
Much more at link
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Butch Cassidy was just one of several Outlaws who's end, while reported are still in doubt.
There were of course Billy the Kid and Jesse James, there was also my Fathers Great Uncle for whom he was named.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Bogan
Dan Bogan (1860 - after 1889) was an American gunfighter and outlaw of the American Old West, who today is considered to have been one of the most underrated gunmen of the 19th century west. He is included as one of twelve described in such a way, in the book "Deadly Dozen", by author Robert K. DeArment.
Much more at link
I wonder how he felt about post Civil War politics Johnson, Grant, Benjamin Harrison?....and where's that apple???? Right next to the tree? ::)
Harrison, a Republican, was elected to the presidency in 1888, defeating Democratic incumbent Grover Cleveland. His administration is most remembered for economic legislation, including the McKinley Tariff and the Sherman Antitrust Act, and for annual federal spending that reached one billion dollars for the first time. Democrats attacked the "Billion Dollar Congress", and used the issue, along with the growing unpopularity of the high tariff, to defeat the Republicans, both in the 1890 mid-term elections and in Harrison's bid for re-election in 1892. He also saw the admittance of six states into the Union
My how times have changed..
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I wonder how he felt about post Civil War politics Johnson, Grant, Benjamin Harrison?....and where's that apple???? Right next to the tree? ::)
Harrison, a Republican, was elected to the presidency in 1888, defeating Democratic incumbent Grover Cleveland. His administration is most remembered for economic legislation, including the McKinley Tariff and the Sherman Antitrust Act, and for annual federal spending that reached one billion dollars for the first time. Democrats attacked the "Billion Dollar Congress", and used the issue, along with the growing unpopularity of the high tariff, to defeat the Republicans, both in the 1890 mid-term elections and in Harrison's bid for re-election in 1892. He also saw the admittance of six states into the Union
My how times have changed..
I don't know, but my Dads Father (The outlaws nephew ) thought the sun rose and set in FDR's butt, while his FIL, (My Grand Mothers Father ) thought "Ruse-velt" was a "damned communist". ;D
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Buffalo Bill Cody Autobiography, personal account of his capture of Bill Bevins in 1872
"Bevins's flight was the most remarkable feat of its kind I have ever heard of. A man who could run barefooted in the snow through a prickly-pear patch was surely a "tough one." When I looked at the man's bleeding foot I really felt sorry for him. He asked me for my knife, and when I gave it to him he dug the thorns out of his foot with its sharp point. I consider him the gamest man I ever met.
I could not suffer a man with such a foot to walk, so I dismounted, and he rode my horse back to camp, while Green and I rode the other horse by turns. We kept a close watch on our prisoner. We had had plenty of proof that he needed it. His injured foot must have pained him fearfully, but never a word of complaint escaped him."
I was told this was a distant relative but never confirmed it... ;)
I doubt politics mattered much..
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Good or bad they were type of tough old birds that country needed.
"Portuguese" Phillips is an example
http://philkearny.vcn.com/phillips.htm
Following the annihilation of Capt. William J. Fetterman and his command on December 21, Phillips volunteered to ride to the telegraph office at Horseshoe Station on the North Platte with Col. Henry B. Carrington's dispatches, about 190 miles in subzero weather. While the general story is that he rode alone on this perilous mission, Phillips was in fact accompanied by one Daniel Dixon to Fort Reno and by others along the way, including Robert Bailey. The pay for the service was $300 apiece for Phillips and Dixon, which they received in January, 1867.
According to the telegrapher at Horseshoe Station, Phillips, Dixon, and Robert Bailey arrived about 10 a.m. on December 25, when the dispatches were wired to the headquarters of the Department of the Platte in Omaha and to Washington. To deliver the message from Wessells to Palmer, Phillips went on to Fort Laramie, arriving at 11 p.m., where a full dress ball was in progress. The appearance of the huge form of Phillips, garbed in a buffalo overcoat, pants, gauntlets, and cap, quieted the festivities, and his message caused preparations for a rescue party, delayed in departing by deeps snows until January 6. In addition to receiving his pay, Phillips was given the best horse in Company F of the 2nd Cavalry.