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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: alfsauve on September 01, 2011, 05:46:28 AM

Title: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: alfsauve on September 01, 2011, 05:46:28 AM: I'll be the first to admit, the test isn't that hard. It's no where near as hard as even middle ranks IPSC, IHMSA or Bulllseye. But still, I'm just a little proud today.

While you can do the entire NRA Marksmanship program on your own, our range offered a deal that for a small fee, they would provide everything and handle all the paper work as well as witness the DE test. I can easily shoot the course of fire with a .22lr, but I thought for a challenge and the bragging rights I'd do it with my .44 Magnum. (One result of owning a progressive is you tend to have lots of fairly inexpensive ammo on hand.)

The final stage took some concentration but I made it last night.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Ex55eocYzBQ/Tl9fVp-fbQI/AAAAAAAAllo/nnM7IDgkKdg/DECertificate.jpg)

They used the D2 (or AP2) which is the smaller of the NRA action targets. Here is a picture of one of the last six targets.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JVJq1QKXt1E/Tl9fTwPKYiI/AAAAAAAAllk/AsceROPKcXI/s512/DETarget.jpg)

So be on notice, this isn't any ordinary Ex sPert (ex=has been; spert=drip under pressure) you're dealing with, but a Distinguished one.
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: BAC on September 01, 2011, 06:44:38 AM: Congratulations Alf! As soon as I can come up with something clever to say to explain dis-ting-quished, I'll get back to you. :D
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: MikeBjerum on September 01, 2011, 07:03:28 AM: I track this for our local league, and it is not as easy as you try to make us believe Alf!

Congrats on the accomplishment!
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 01, 2011, 08:55:05 AM: Ever since the first avatar we knew you were distinguished.
Now you're an an expert at it ;D
Good for you.
What exactly does the whole course involve ?
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: Hazcat on September 01, 2011, 09:01:28 AM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on September 01, 2011, 08:55:05 AM
Ever since the first avatar we knew you were distinguished.
Now you're an an expert at it ;D
Good for you.
What exactly does the whole course involve ?

My question, too.
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: MikeBjerum on September 01, 2011, 09:27:36 AM: Tom & Haz - I have the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program handbook right here on my desk, and I can type the rules and requirements:

Distinguished Expert
(Multiple Target Event)*
Firing for the Distinguished Expert rating must be witnessed by an NRA member (with current ID number), or an NRA Instructor or coach (with current ID number).

Position: Standing, ready, with two hands; strong hand and weak hand stages.

Distance: 15 feet D-2 target or 30 feet D-1 target

Target: D-1 or D-2 precision target (tombstone target - the same as used in Bianchi Cup)

Target Setup:
D-1: Three targets hung with the top edges of the target approximately six feet above ground level and not more than one foot apart from edge to edge.

D-2: Three targets hung with the top edges of the targets approximately eye level and not more than six inches apart edge to edge.

This event is conducted in four stages. The four stages must be completed ikn the same session to qualify as one completed course of fire.

Stage 1: Two shots at each target, using two hands in 10 seconds.
Stage 2: Two shots at each target, using strong hand only in 10 seconds.
Stage 3: Two shots at each target, using the weak hand only in 10 seconds.
Stage 4: Two shots at center target, two rounds at left target, two rounds at right target using two hands in 10 seconds.

A total of 24 rounds. Possible score: 240. (Five-shot revolvers may fire one round at each target, in five seconds, then repeat, for a total of 24 rounds. Possible score of 240.)

Rating Requirement: Three times over the course with a minimum score of 168, and three times over the course with a minimum score of 192. The number of courses does not have to be fired in succession or on the same day.

Note on target scoring:

10 points - ten ring and X ring
8 points - outer ring
5 points - any place else on paper

It looks like Alf's target has 24 holes in it - making some assumptions on good grouping:
3 x 5 = 15
3 x 8 = 24
18 x 10 = 180
Total target score = 219

If this is any indication of your ability with a .44 magnum, which it is, you need to tuck the humble away and puff a little more!

*The Marksman First Class is a Slow Fire Event and the Expert is an Ambidextrous Event
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: MikeBjerum on September 01, 2011, 09:31:29 AM: Congrats again Alf!

Shooting qualification is one of the things I enjoy about shooting sports. It is all about my skill and how I am improving. It is totally subjective, and it is controlled to the point that I have no one but myself to blame. It is also me against a consistent standard that is used worldwide.

Anyone that thinks qualifications in any area is easy should give it a try!

Get that patch on your vest quick, and wear it with pride!
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: tt11758 on September 01, 2011, 09:56:53 AM: As I said on FB: You da MAN, Alf!!
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: Hazcat on September 01, 2011, 11:01:01 AM: Thanks M58 and GOOD JOB ALF!
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: alfsauve on September 01, 2011, 12:41:13 PM: That must be some other program or an older version:

Here's the link to the current rules: (http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/marksmanship/qualbook.pdf#page=8) A little easier since it's only 5 shots in 10 seconds.

AP-1 (D-1) at 10 yds or AP-2 (D-2) at 5 yds

Stage 1: 5 rounds, strong side, 2 hands in 10 seconds.
Stage 2: 5 rounds, strong side, 1 hand in 10 seconds.
Stage 3: 5 rounds, weak side, 2 hands in 10 seconds.
Stage 4: 5 rounds, weak side, 1 hand in 10 seconds.

Rating Requirement: Three times over the course with a minimum
score of 145, and three times over the course with a minimum score
of 170.
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 01, 2011, 12:47:56 PM: I assume you have to shoot the Marksman and Expert courses first ?
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: Solus on September 01, 2011, 01:21:11 PM: Quote from: alfsauve on September 01, 2011, 12:41:13 PM
That must be some other program or an older version:

Here's the link to the current rules: (http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/marksmanship/qualbook.pdf#page=8) A little easier since it's only 5 shots in 10 seconds.

AP-1 (D-1) at 10 yds or AP-2 (D-2) at 5 yds

Stage 1: 5 rounds, strong side, 2 hands in 10 seconds.
Stage 2: 5 rounds, strong side, 1 hand in 10 seconds.
Stage 3: 5 rounds, weak side, 2 hands in 10 seconds.
Stage 4: 5 rounds, weak side, 1 hand in 10 seconds.

Rating Requirement: Three times over the course with a minimum
score of 145, and three times over the course with a minimum score
of 170.

I've never been in a competitive shooting sport or made a qualifying attempt since my Army days and don't understand why there are two sets of 3 times over the course with different minimum scores?
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: MikeBjerum on September 01, 2011, 01:25:56 PM: Quote from: Solus on September 01, 2011, 01:21:11 PM
I've never been in a competitive shooting sport or made a qualifying attempt since my Army days and don't understand why there are two sets of 3 times over the course with different minimum scores?

View it as six times over the course with two separate levels. In our clubs we view it as needing the lower score as a base, but the final three must meet the higher score. Same as working up through the lower levels. We understand that NRA does not require that, but it is what we do.
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: MikeBjerum on September 01, 2011, 01:27:40 PM: Quote from: alfsauve on September 01, 2011, 12:41:13 PM
That must be some other program or an older version:

Here's the link to the current rules: (http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/marksmanship/qualbook.pdf#page=8) A little easier since it's only 5 shots in 10 seconds.

AP-1 (D-1) at 10 yds or AP-2 (D-2) at 5 yds

Stage 1: 5 rounds, strong side, 2 hands in 10 seconds.
Stage 2: 5 rounds, strong side, 1 hand in 10 seconds.
Stage 3: 5 rounds, weak side, 2 hands in 10 seconds.
Stage 4: 5 rounds, weak side, 1 hand in 10 seconds.

Rating Requirement: Three times over the course with a minimum
score of 145, and three times over the course with a minimum score
of 170.

Great!

Last summer (a little over 12 months ago) I purchased this book, because my old one had its pages falling out. Love it when rules change right after you get "the latest" set >:(
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: Solus on September 01, 2011, 02:10:44 PM: Quote from: m58 on September 01, 2011, 01:25:56 PM
View it as six times over the course with two separate levels. In our clubs we view it as needing the lower score as a base, but the final three must meet the higher score. Same as working up through the lower levels. We understand that NRA does not require that, but it is what we do.

does that mean if I fire the first set and all the scores are above 200 I have to do it again and get all the scores above the high requirement again?
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: twyacht on September 01, 2011, 02:49:49 PM: (http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx97/JML9999/animated_audience_Applause.gif)

CONGRATS!!! MR. DISTINGUISHED EXPERT WITH THE .44 GUY!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: Big Frank on September 01, 2011, 03:20:35 PM: Congrats to the distinguished gentleman. You earned it Alf.
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: MikeBjerum on September 01, 2011, 03:29:25 PM: Quote from: Solus on September 01, 2011, 02:10:44 PM
does that mean if I fire the first set and all the scores are above 200 I have to do it again and get all the scores above the high requirement again?

According to NRA - No

According to our group of cranky old guys in our league - Yes

It is just a twist we put on for ourselves, and if you come shoot a match with our league we wouldn't hold you to our twisted torture.

They started this before I came along because, like every group, we have always had a couple guys that do stupid stuff and brag about how great they are. So, it was decided before you could get your next patch or pin you had to do the qualification with the last three sets at the higher score regardless of the score on the first three.

There was a guy about a decade ago that was bragging at the bar so much about how great he was that they told him from now on he had to do all six sets consecutively. If he met the standard with four and then fell short on the fifth he had to start over with number one. NRA doesn't require that either, but some people just deserve it :-\
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: alfsauve on September 01, 2011, 05:03:33 PM: I don't think the intent of the NRA was that you had to fire >169 on your LAST set of 3 targets. Only that at least 3 exceed the 170 threshold. My RO certainly didn't care. I certainly didn't read the rules that way.

Yes, I did all levels from the pie plates up. I used them as practice for the final stage. I have all the chevrons and the nifty medal.
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: Solus on September 01, 2011, 05:24:07 PM: Thanks...was just trying to understand the reasoning....
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: sledgemeister on September 02, 2011, 05:14:23 AM: Well done Alf, nothing like a real gun to be good with ;)

BTW are we talking full house magnum loads or doesnt it matter?
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: Conagher 45 on September 05, 2011, 04:27:54 PM: Congrats Al, job well done , I did it in 2001 with my Service Revolver S&W 66. Then they issued me a Sig P220 three months later, I think I need to do it again, but I don't think I shoot the 220 as well as I shoot the 66, it my not be as easy this time.
Title: Re: Distinguished Expert - .44 Magnum
Post by: alfsauve on September 05, 2011, 08:52:25 PM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on September 01, 2011, 12:47:56 PM
I assume you have to shoot the Marksman and Expert courses first ?

I don't know if we answered your question or not.

The way I read it, you can submit the paper work for Dist Exp without ever having done the other levels. The other levels are honor system and you can pretty much order them yourself as you want. But the DE requires another NRA member to witness and sign. Regular NRA instructors, like the RO at my range, just keep a stash of all the awards on hand anyway. So within 15 minutes of shooting the last target she gave me the cert, badges and medal.

Rather than fool with ordering all the "awards" myself, I utilized the flat fee program at my range. They provided all the targets, a little instruction if you needed, witnessed the DE targets and provided all the awards on the spot.