The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: twyacht on September 17, 2011, 07:34:11 AM
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http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/09/ruidoso-nm-mayor-bans-firearms-on.html
Video At Link
At one guy even slung an AR. Of course Larry Pratt and Bob Wright are in the middle of the resistance. Bob reports the cops were "VERY, VERY polite." With at least 80 armed citizens in the room that was probably a good idea.
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/politics/verbal-shots-fired-in-ruidoso-gunfight
Verbal shots fired in Ruidoso gunfight
Updated: Wednesday, 14 Sep 2011, 8:51 AM MDT
Published : Wednesday, 14 Sep 2011, 8:51 AM MDT
RUIDOSO, N.M. (KRQE) - There were powerful emotions and strong words at a city council meeting in Ruidoso, New Mexico Tuesday tonight.
Gun owners from down the road and from around the country, packed council chambers to give the mayor an earful about his executive order banning guns from village government buildings and meetings.
They ignored the ban to prove their point. Guns were very visible but the only shots fired were verbal and they were directed at the mayor.
"You are just as a much a tyrant for requiring someone to surrender their civil rights to carry a firearm in order to participate in their government as you are in asking them to surrender their right to vote or anything else,” Bob Wright said.
Speakers were given three minutes to speak and they did not hold back ,most of them with their guns holstered by their sides.
"Almost all of the mass murders in our country have occurred in areas just like you're fixing to set up, in gun free zones,” Executive Director of Gun Owners of America, Larry Pratt, said.
Locals, activists from the NRA and the Executive Director of Gun Owners of America, who flew in from Virginia, took to the podium to take a stand.
In all more than 100 people filled the council chamber to capacity, dozens of them carrying guns, despite signs that say ‘no guns allowed.’
Police were on hand but they did not stop them.
Ruidoso Mayor Ray Alborn issued the executive order banning firearms from government property and meetings a month ago, after a citizen refused to give up his gun after taking the podium.
"The police chief took it away from him, he filed a suit. At that time I realized how unprotected we in the front of the room, there's 11 of us, plus all of our citizens and employees who were at the meeting, how unprotected we were,” Alborn said.
The executive order does not apply to law enforcement.
The mayor also says there is a lot of misinformation including a rumor that the ban means people need to give up their guns the second they step on Ruidoso soil.
Critics loudly proclaim he is violating their 2nd amendment rights and that he thinks the law's on his side.
Alborn says if village council shoots down his executive order he might step down.
“My responsibility is health, safety and welfare of our employees so if we're not going to be able to do these kinds of things I’m not sure I want to be sitting in this seat,” Alborn said.
Protesters called for the mayor and the village attorney to resign. However, in the end the village council put off the vote.
No word when they might vote on the executive order.
The mayor says two state laws give him the authority to ban firearms in village buildings But the National Rifle Association says a New Mexico Supreme Court decision forbids local authorities from making piecemeal changes to the constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
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Sounds just like my asshat Mayor here in Florida.....Must be a defective gene.....
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Sometimes a little authority appears to convey a great deal of power in the minds of the weak-willed.
You will frequently see it in badge-happy LEOs who suddenly think they rule the world.
We're seeing it now in the the WH, where a servant of the people wants to be our emperor.
It is the nature of power to corrupt.
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FTA:
“My responsibility is health, safety and welfare of our employees so if we're not going to be able to do these kinds of things I’m not sure I want to be sitting in this seat,” Alborn said.
CRAP. His job is to run the city government. Not set up a little nanny state.
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They never get it--the ones that obey a sign are not the ones you need to worry about. >:(
How low does your IQ need to be to not get that? ???
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<snip>
CRAP. His job is to run the city government. Not set up a little nanny state.
These liberal gals and guys take on a Hitler Complex when exposed to power.
Beware the liberal.
They are bound only by what they can get away with if you get between them and their desires.
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from a liabilty stand point he is right.( like it or not, thats just how it is)
Clearly the towns people don't think he is... welll as a elected offical, you must fallow the wishs of those that elected you.
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from a liabilty stand point he is right.( like it or not, thats just how it is)
Clearly the towns people don't think he is... welll as a elected offical, you must fallow the wishs of those that elected you.
BS!
He does not have the right or power to use executive order to take away a constitutionally protected Right. This is the time and place where I do believe in open carry. This is the type of movement our founding fathers wanted us to be prepared for.
If he can unilaterally ban firearms from a certain time, place or event, he has taken the power to do it on a larger scale, and before you know it he is issuing orders that remove all rights, including life, from his subjects. Sound far fetched? Look at how so many other nations and civilizations have gone down that road.
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WOW!!!! I lived 45 minutes from there for years and never once would have thought that wonderful little town would go down this road... Shocking!
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We had a guy that would bring a shotgun into city council meetings (he was a bit a crank and very adversarial with the council). All perfectly legal. Needless to say they were intimidated and as a result the council banned open carry from all city building. Can't say that I agree with their reasoning or decision, but I can understand why they did it.
Colorado Springs Council Split in 5-4 Decision Approving Ordinance
There will be no further brandishing of weapons in Springs City Council meetings.
The Colorado Springs City Council voted five to four Tuesday to ban open firearms in city buildings.
Council memebrs decided carrying a gun openly in city buildings was an infringement on peoples rights.
The proposal was prompted by resident Don Ortega who's been taking his shotgun to City Council meetings since last month.
Council member Tom Gallagher criticized Ortega and his actions for bringing his gun to Council and prompting the issue. "Mr. Ortega, you are an arrogant, stupid, irresponsible man, and you caused this and I want everybody to know that. You didn't have the decency to respect the people around you and therefore demonstrated you are an irresponsible gun owner." Gallagher voted against the ordinence banning open carry of weapons.
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Ich, since they can't open carry does that mean they can and should concealed carry w/permit? Seems that way to me!
Richard
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Ich, since they can't open carry does that mean they can and should concealed carry w/permit? Seems that way to me!
Richard
CCW is okay in most buildings except:
(4) A permit issued does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:
(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;
(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and
(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.
That is primarily the court building. Guess where they've moved the meeting to. ::)
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Actually carrying long guns in public can be tricky.
They don't come under CC/OC laws, they are covered by hunting laws which generally prohibit loaded guns with in a set distance of any occupied building. (Here it's 100 yards I think )
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Like I posted to my assclown Mayor:
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
James Madison
All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree.
James Madison
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Additionally, if a crazed loon, who ignores ANY gun law/restriction/ban, anyway enters the bldg., Aren't WE the militia? The front line of defense?
Or should we rely on LEO's that can't hit the broadside of a bullet with a barn? ;)
Like Uncle Ted states:
Do I need a permit to my right to free speech?
Do I need a permit to practice religion as I see fit?
Than why on God's green Earth, would I need licensing, fees, regulations, fingerprints, photographs, background checks, more fees, a book of rules and regs. for my 2nd Amend.
This is another Bloomberg MAIG (Mayor's Against Illegal Guns) aka, pro-Brady/Anti-gun group with no other intention to bassackward law abiding citizens from possessing and "bearing" arms.
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FTA:
Ruidoso Mayor Ray Alborn issued the executive order banning firearms from government property and meetings a month ago, after a citizen refused to give up his gun after taking the podium.
"The police chief took it away from him, he filed a suit. At that time I realized how unprotected we in the front of the room, there's 11 of us, plus all of our citizens and employees who were at the meeting, how unprotected we were,” Alborn said.
His best way to keep every one safe would be to not act like the sort of overbearing elitist azzhat that people want to shoot
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At that time I realized how unprotected we in the front of the room, there's 11 of us, plus all of our citizens and employees who were at the meeting, how unprotected we were,” Alborn said.
I say if himself or any others felt unprotected they might want to carry a gun.
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At that time I realized how unprotected we in the front of the room, there's 11 of us, plus all of our citizens and employees who were at the meeting, how unprotected we were,” Alborn said.
I say if himself or any others felt unprotected they might want to carry a gun.
Avery good point Dave ;D
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FTA:
Ruidoso Mayor Ray Alborn issued the executive order banning firearms from government property and meetings a month ago, after a citizen refused to give up his gun after taking the podium.
"The police chief took it away from him, he filed a suit. At that time I realized how unprotected we in the front of the room, there's 11 of us, plus all of our citizens and employees who were at the meeting, how unprotected we were,” Alborn said.
His best way to keep every one safe would be to not act like the sort of overbearing elitist azzhat that people want to shoot
Did he ever stop to think that having an armed citizen in the room might provide the eleven of them with some level of protection?
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Did he ever stop to think that having an armed citizen in the room might provide the eleven of them with some level of protection?
maybe, but maybe they are in more of a risk. A ND can cuase alot of damage. Just look at how well the highly trained police have done in the last month in reguards to hitting bistandards... just remember those are the ones that can legally CCW in every state... Makes me feel safe... ::)
As I said, it makes sense from a straigth liabilty point of veiw.
The question is did he over step his powers. I don't know the answer to that, its going to depend on NM and thier local laws.
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maybe, but maybe they are in more of a risk. A ND can cuase alot of damage. Just look at how well the highly trained police have done in the last month in reguards to hitting bistandards... just remember those are the ones that can legally CCW in every state... Makes me feel safe... ::)
As I said, it makes sense from a straigth liabilty point of veiw.
The question is did he over step his powers. I don't know the answer to that, its going to depend on NM and thier local laws.
And that point of view would support a total gun ban. After all, any office holder with the power to do so that does not ban all guns would be considered liable for gun usage in their jurisdiction. Isn't that true TAB (Tsara A. Brady)?
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maybe, but maybe they are in more of a risk. A ND can cuase alot of damage. Just look at how well the highly trained police have done in the last month in reguards to hitting bistandards... just remember those are the ones that can legally CCW in every state... Makes me feel safe... ::)
As I said, it makes sense from a straigth liabilty point of veiw.
The question is did he over step his powers. I don't know the answer to that, its going to depend on NM and thier local laws.
"highly trained police" Did you intend to be facetious, TAB?
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"highly trained police" Did you intend to be facetious, TAB?
Yes,
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maybe, but maybe they are in more of a risk. A ND can cuase alot of damage. Just look at how well the highly trained police have done in the last month in reguards to hitting bistandards... just remember those are the ones that can legally CCW in every state... Makes me feel safe... ::)
As I said, it makes sense from a straigth liabilty point of veiw.
The question is did he over step his powers. I don't know the answer to that, its going to depend on NM and thier local laws.
And you think he would face no litigational exposure if someone were wounded or killed because his order had deprived them of their ability to defend themselves?
It's a two-edged sword, TAB.
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And you think he would face no litigational exposure if someone were wounded or killed because his order had deprived them of their ability to defend themselves?
It's a two-edged sword, TAB.
It does not work that way. You would have to prove that you could have actually defended yourself. That is a extremely hard thing to do. Thats like getting a speeding ticket for 100 mph in a 25 mph zone and proving what you were doing was safe. Its something that you will never be able to win in court.
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No one has mentioned it but NM is an open carry state.
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TAB,
I will buy into your litigation and liability BS when they install metal detectors and frisk everyone entering the property. Until that time all they are doing is removing our Constitutional protection away from law abiding citizens and putting properly carrying citizens at risk - a risk they are prepared to handle.
As far as proving you could have handled an need if you had not been disarmed by this ruling - All your attorney and family need to prove is that you are qualified and practiced with the firearm you carry and that your training covers self defense situations. That is no more difficult than going the other way.
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Trust me, that won't work. I doubt they will even let it be done.
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Trust me, that won't work. I doubt they will even let it be done.
Who's "they"?
The arguments your attorneys use in a civil trial can have a VERY wide berth.
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This is the primary subject where most of us , if not all, think TAB is an asshole.
On almost any aspect of right to carry TAB takes this sort of Ca. Kool ade stance and nothing any one says will change his mind.
When it comes to the politics of CCW I just ignore his posts.
On technical stuff he's usually worth reading, but on this he is young and indoctrinated.
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Who's "they"?
The arguments your attorneys use in a civil trial can have a VERY wide berth.
not unless they can back them up. At best you could argue this, then have the judge instruct the jury, to disreguard the argument.
Think about it for a second, what argument would you use to prove that you being armed ment you could have defended yourself.
The " I'm highly trained" deal won't work unless you can actually back that up, with out making yourself look like a gun nut/baby killer.
Now think about how you are going to counter that argument?
which is easier to do?
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not unless they can back them up. At best you could argue this, then have the judge instruct the jury, to disreguard the argument.
Think about it for a second, what argument would you use to prove that you being armed ment you could have defended yourself.
The " I'm highly trained" deal won't work unless you can actually back that up, with out making yourself look like a gun nut/baby killer.
Now think about how you are going to counter that argument?
which is easier to do?
I think it could be proven that by being disarmed, your capability to defend your self was greatly reduced ...just as being tied up would reduce your chances of defending yourself.
I don't think proving that without either one your defense would have been totally successful is necessary?
By eliminating the means of defense, it made getting harmed certain.
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By eliminating the means of defense, it made getting harmed certain.
DING DING DING...... Winner!!!!!
I shouldn't have to PROVE that I can defend myself.....simply having the God-given RIGHT to try, IF the need arises, should suffice.
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not unless they can back them up. At best you could argue this, then have the judge instruct the jury, to disreguard the argument.
Have you ever seen a civil trial? An "expert" can testify that the sky is purple, it is XX's fault, and no, the judge CANNOT instruct the jury to disregard the argument. If it is presented properly, as in rules of the court, it stays in the court record.
Think about it for a second, what argument would you use to prove that you being armed ment you could have defended yourself.
Wow, that's a tough one. Let's see...has there EVER been an incident where someone armed defended themselves? I googled it and only got 12,000,000 results so no, I guess not. ::)
Has there EVER been an incident where I defended myself? Yes. 3 times with a firearm and I haven't had to fire a shot.
The " I'm highly trained" deal won't work unless you can actually back that up, with out making yourself look like a gun nut/baby killer.
Now think about how you are going to counter that argument?
which is easier to do?
Which argument can I make while alive and which one can I make when I'm dead? I'll take alive.
You really need to change your water supply, or buy shirts with a bigger collar.
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You really need to change your water supply, or buy shirts with a bigger collar.
Me likes that one ;D
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UPDATE
Council vote overrides mayor's gun ban
Updated: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 6:45 PM MDT
Published : Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 7:45 PM MDT
* Web Producer: Bill Diven
RUIDOSO, N.M. (KRQE) - The Ruidoso mayor's controversial executive order banning firearms from village hall and other municipal buildings has been rescinded.
The decision was made during Tuesday night's Ruidoso Village Council meeting with one councilor dissenting.
Mayor Ray Alborn said the ban was necessary to protect village employees and people doing business there. He imposed the ban after police asked a man wearing a gun to remove it during a council meeting in July.
But many unhappy gun owners called the ban unconstitutional.
Alborn had said if the council overruled him he would resign, but there was no immediate word on whether he still plans to do that.
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/politics/council-vote-overrides-mayors-gun-ban
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UPDATE
Alborn had said if the council overruled him he would resign, but there was no immediate word on whether he still plans to do that.
Guess it's time for him to put up or shut up.
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Guess it's time for him to put up or shut up.
He's a dem so you know he's not gonna keep his word.
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It would be interesting if someone would call him on it. Point out that he made an offer - resign if overruled; the council accepted his offer by overruling him; and now he must fulfill his end of the contract - verbal offer that has been accepted.
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Thanks Haz, for the update, let's see if the townfolk arm up, and "encourage" him to honor his offer and resign....
What a schmuck.
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If he really believes in whqat he said, he should stand up and resign on principle.
Of course, I've yet to find any politician to stand on principle. :P
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UPDATE
Alborn had said if the council overruled him he would resign, but there was no immediate word on whether he still plans to do that.
Resign? Yeah right. When hell freezes over. (I don't want any pictures of the sign that went around some time ago!)
Ullmus, every politician stands on his principles. That way they don't get in the way.
Pecos, who couldn't resist.
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Someone needs to say to him.
"Babies make phony threats when they throw tantrums. Are you going to resign or should be start calling you 'Baby Ray'?"
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I can't believe no one has posted this yet:
Gus Raymond Alborn
132 Coronado Dr
Ruidoso New Mexico 88345
Residence: 575-257-6531
Cellular: 575-808-1357
RayAlborn@ruidoso-nm.gov
Be nice, be polite, but for me, I would remind him of his promise to resign if overturned.