The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: twyacht on September 24, 2011, 07:01:19 PM
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/24/herman-cain-wins-cpac-florida-straw-poll/
ORLANDO — Former Godfather Pizza CEO Herman Cain won the Presidency 5 straw poll here Saturday, delivering a blow to Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s frontrunner status and a victory for a candidate who has struggled to transform his grassroots popularity into strong showings in national polls.
“Tonight’s winner is Herman Cain,” Florida Gov. Rick Scott announced. “It shows you something, the road to the White House come through Florida, and it pays to spend time here.”
He received 37 percent of the more than 2,600 votes cast.
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He does have a K.I.S.S. plan,...we'll see.
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Notice how it is always "Former Godfather Pizza CEO". Somehow they fail to mention "former Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City". Odd isn't it?
I'm sure it's just an innocent oversight. ::)
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I'm curious as to what conditions he left the two aforementioned jobs under.
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I'm curious as to what conditions he left the two aforementioned jobs under.
I haven't heard anything negative.
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I would like a better description of his 9,9,9 plan, he said it was a 9% personal income tax, 9% corporate tax and 9% federal sales tax. Sounds like a 27% flat tax with no deductions, the federal government takes 9% when I make it then charges me 9% when I buy something in addition to the 8.25% state and local tax I already pay and corporations pass on to me the extra 9% they are taxed. Sounds like he must mean something else or he needs to drop out right now!
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flat tax is bad idea on so many levels its not even funny. A very large chunk of the funds comes from pay roll taxs as well. should we have 9% on that as well? making that 9% really 18% for every one with a W-2, which is most of the population.
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How can a flat tax be bad on so many levels? You make $xxx.xx, multiply it by %x and pay it. EVERYBODY pays the same, except cheaters, dealt with on a different forum. The problem now, is so many tax attys and others finding numerous deductions, so that those that can afford to, pay less percentage than those that can't. I challenge you to find a "fairer" form of taxation.
Brian
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How can a flat tax be bad on so many levels? You make $xxx.xx, multiply it by %x and pay it. EVERYBODY pays the same, except cheaters, dealt with on a different forum. The problem now, is so many tax attys and others finding numerous deductions, so that those that can afford to, pay less percentage than those that can't. I challenge you to find a "fairer" form of taxation.
Brian
Take 2 people, they make the exact same ammount.( does not matter the ammount)
one works for some one else, the other owns thier own company. They have several employees, leverage every thing they own, barrows even more.
should they pay the same tax? or should the guy that is taking risks and pumping $$$$ into the econ pay more or less tax?
or what about this, why should a single renter pay more tax then a married home owner? Why should having kids mean you pay less tax?
should some one that makes 15k a year ( min wage) pay the same tax as some one making 1.5 billion?
don't get me wrong the system we have now is messed up, but a pure flat tax would be even worse.
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Give me one good reason why the guy who makes 1.5 B should be penalized because the other guy is not skilled enough to earn more than minimum wage.
If "Paying his fair share" is 10% or $1500 for the Min Wage guy then then 10% or $150M is damn sure a fair share from the other guy.
The "graduated income tax" is another one of FDR's socialist scams. A flat tax eliminates the current loop holes put in place to make lawyers and accountants rich.
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quote author TAB
Take 2 people, they make the exact same ammount.( does not matter the ammount)
one works for some one else, the other owns thier own company. They have several employees, leverage every thing they own, barrows even more.
should they pay the same tax? or should the guy that is taking risks and pumping $$$$ into the econ pay more or less tax?
They should pay the same. Unless the risk taker is willing to share some of the rewards of taking that risk with "society" since by giving them a break, "society" is sharing part of that risk.
or what about this, why should a single renter pay more tax then a married home owner? Why should having kids mean you
pay less tax?
Again, they should pay the same. What you might not see is that done correctly, the flat tax should be no more than 5%, perhaps 4%, being supplemented by the appropriate excise tax system. In any case, the married/w children and the homeowner will pay far less in tax than they do under the current system.
should some one that makes 15k a year ( min wage) pay the same tax as some one making 1.5 billion?
Same percentage, yes. It might be tougher for the lower incomes since necessities take up a greater portion of their income, but they will still be doing better than the current system.
don't get me wrong the system we have now is messed up, but a pure flat tax would be even worse.
I say the flat tax, with the right excise tax and elimination of unconstitutional government spending and we all make out better.....some maybe better than another, but lets not get this whole boondoggle started again my trying to make things "fair" with loop holes.
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Cut the crap out of all nonmilitary Govt spending, replace large portions of Personal income tax revenue with tariffs on imported goods.
Eliminate all state and federal tax codes and replace with no exemption, no deduction flat rate taxs.
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The gov't will never relinquish the "power to tax". Congress critters of both parties use "taxes" as a motivating/scaring/leveraging tool for elections, pork, and there power base.
That's just the National Level.....Than there is the States, Cities, Counties, Utilities, Property, etc,...et al.
A 9-9-9 plan, cannot be a reform of the current tax code, but a replacement...Much harder to accomplish without a complete upheaval by the vast majority of this country.
OR The 50% of this country that actually do PAY taxes, DOESN'T. Let the IRS deal with 125+ MILLION PEOPLE THAT SEND NO PAYMENT!
Is Dancing with the Stars on tonight?
That's what we'll get instead.... >:(
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The gov't will never relinquish the "power to tax". Congress critters of both parties use "taxes" as a motivating/scaring/leveraging tool for elections, pork, and there power base.
That's just the National Level.....Than there is the States, Cities, Counties, Utilities, Property, etc,...et al.
A 9-9-9 plan, cannot be a reform of the current tax code, but a replacement...Much harder to accomplish without a complete upheaval by the vast majority of this country.
OR The 50% of this country that actually do PAY taxes, DOESN'T. Let the IRS deal with 125+ MILLION PEOPLE THAT SEND NO PAYMENT!
Is Dancing with the Stars on tonight?
That's what we'll get instead.... >:(
Now you know why I'm a Libertarian :D :D :D
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http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46577
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Michael Barone
Is Herman Cain a Contender?
by Michael Barone
10/03/2011
96
Comments
Is Herman Cain a serious contender for the Republican presidential nomination? It's a question no one in the pundit world was asking until the past week.
Cain has never held public office. When he ran for the Senate in Georgia in 2004, he lost the primary by a 52 percent to 26 percent margin.
He has zero experience in foreign or defense policy, where presidents have the most leeway to set policy. When questioned about the Middle East earlier this year, he clearly had no idea what the "right of return" is.
His solid performance in the Fox News/Google debate Sept. 22 didn't get pundits to take his chances seriously.
Neither did his 37 percent to 15 percent victory over Rick Perry in the Florida straw poll on Sept. 24. That was taken as a response to Perry's weak debate performance and a tribute to Cain for showing up and speaking before the 2,657 people who voted.
But Republicans around the nation seem to have responded the same way. The Fox News poll conducted Sept. 25 to 27 showed Cain with 17 percent of the vote -- a statistically significant jump from the 5 percent he had been averaging in polls taken in previous weeks.
And a SurveyUSA poll of Florida Republicans conducted Sept. 24 to 27 showed Cain trailing Mitt Romney by only 27 percent to 25 percent -- a statistical tie. That's very different from the Florida polls conducted by Public Policy Polling Sept. 22 to 25 and Quinnipiac Sept. 14 to 19, both of which showed Cain with 7 percent.
We will see whether other national or state polls show Cain with a similar surge. If so, then there's a real possibility that Cain could win enough primaries and caucuses to be a real contender.
That possibility is already being taken seriously by The Wall Street Journal's Daniel Henninger. Henninger argued in a Sept. 29 column that Cain's success in business -- engineering turnarounds in Burger King's Philadelphia stores and Godfather's Pizza nationally -- made him a plausible candidate.
"Unlike the incumbent," Henninger wrote, "Herman Cain has at least twice identified the causes of a large failing enterprise, designed goals, achieved them and by all accounts inspired the people he was supposed to lead."
Cain's business success, his "9-9-9" tax plan, his generally conservative stands on issues, the YouTube clip showing him debating Bill Clinton on health care in 1994 -- all of these help account for his apparent surge in the polls.
But I suspect there are a couple of other factors. One is likeability. Romney's attempts at ingratiation are awkward, and Perry's charm is lost on most non-Texans. But Cain is, as the Atlantic's liberal analyst Chris Good concedes, "undeniably likeable."
Another thing going for him is race. White conservatives like to hear black candidates who articulate their views and will vote for them: Check out Rep. Tim Scott of Charleston, S.C.
In this, white conservatives resemble white liberals, who liked hearing Barack Obama articulate their views and were ready to vote for him, too. This is what Joe Biden was getting at with his awkward 2007 comment that Obama was a "clean" black candidate.
White moderates are ready to support black candidates, too, as Obama showed in the 2008 general election.
Cain claims that he could get one-third of the black vote in a general election. There's no way to rigorously test that.
But it finds some support in Scott Rasmussen's polls, which have been regularly pitting 10 current or possible candidates against Obama. Rasmussen finds Romney ahead by 2 percent and Chris Christie trailing by 1 percent. The other candidate closest to Obama, trailing by 5 percent, is Cain.
Moreover, Cain holds Obama to the lowest share of the vote, 39 percent, of any of the 10 Republicans. That may be because some black voters desert Obama when Cain is the opponent.
Further support can be found in the Low Country of South Carolina, where Scott won with 65 percent of the vote in 2010 in a district where John McCain won just 56 percent and where 20 percent of the population is black. No other Republican freshmen in the Old South ran so far ahead of McCain.
All this speculation may be getting far ahead of the facts. Cain still has significant liabilities as a candidate and could make a disqualifying mistake any time. But he's beginning to look like a contender.
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quote author TAB
Take 2 people, they make the exact same ammount.( does not matter the ammount)
one works for some one else, the other owns thier own company. They have several employees, leverage every thing they own, barrows even more.
should they pay the same tax? or should the guy that is taking risks and pumping $$$$ into the econ pay more or less tax?
They should pay the same. Unless the risk taker is willing to share some of the rewards of taking that risk with "society" since by giving them a break, "society" is sharing part of that risk.
so what your saying is, a person pumping 1 million into the econ, but only making $60k(I've been there, done that, ), should be chareged the exact same ammount as the office worker that makes $60k.
Which one does more good for the US? let me use your words, which one has shared more with the "society"?
I can't hink of a better way to help the econ then to encourge people to be 1st guy, You want to put people to work, small biz is where it is at.
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I kind of like Herman so I sent an email to his campaign to learn his stance on the 2nd Ammendment and the right of a law abiding citizen to carry a firearm for person protection. No word yet...
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so what your saying is, a person pumping 1 million into the econ, but only making $60k(I've been there, done that, ), should be chareged the exact same ammount as the office worker that makes $60k.
Which one does more good for the US? let me use your words, which one has shared more with the "society"?
I can't hink of a better way to help the econ then to encourge people to be 1st guy, You want to put people to work, small biz is where it is at.
In a word, YES. Your argument shows your ignorance. It doesn't matter how much the person is pumping into the economy, when at the end of the day he "only" makes 60K. That means that both men are making 60K and should pay the same amount.
You bitch and complain about how much you have to pay, but if you haven't taken steps to insulate your personal income from your business, then you either need to fire your accountant, or suck it up and accept the shit sandwich that is the California tax code.
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In a word, YES. Your argument shows your ignorance. It doesn't matter how much the person is pumping into the economy, when at the end of the day he "only" makes 60K. That means that both men are making 60K and should pay the same amount.
You bitch and complain about how much you have to pay, but if you haven't taken steps to insulate your personal income from your business, then you either need to fire your accountant, or suck it up and accept the shit sandwich that is the California tax code.
are you sure your not a democrat?
that sounds exactly like them... You have to look at the big picture, not the small one.( which is what they do)
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are you sure your not a democrat?
that sounds exactly like them... You have to look at the big picture, not the small one.( which is what they do)
Are you sure you're not ?
Spouting BS is a Liberal's trademark.
If both parties earn 60K both pay the same .
Don't like it ? Stay in commiefornia and quit whining.
Special interest azzholes like you are why the tax code is so f*cked up now.
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so what your saying is, a person pumping 1 million into the econ, but only making $60k(I've been there, done that, ), should be chareged the exact same ammount as the office worker that makes $60k.
Which one does more good for the US? let me use your words, which one has shared more with the "society"?
I can't hink of a better way to help the econ then to encourge people to be 1st guy, You want to put people to work, small biz is where it is at.
You don't explain why you only make $60 out of $1 Million
Do you make 60k because of the taxes taken out or that is all you don't use to grow the the business?
If you are growing the business and it takes off and you start making big hauls, you will be glad for the small flat tax....and you will deserve every penny you get....you did the work and you took the risk.
If you are just taking the $60K and using the other $940k to pump up the economy because you love your fellow citizens, thank you...but maybe you should either give yourself a raise and still pump $800K into the economy or learn typing and filing and shoot and boat more with your spare time.
If you are trying to grow the business for a much greater reward in the future and you ask for a break on taxes then you are asking everyone else to help finance your risk in the business....and if you let them do that then they deserve a cut of the big reward.
Problem is that folks like you who do all that work, take all that risk, pump all that cash into the economy are then wanted to pay through the nose because your hard work and gamble paid off....
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Building materials, payroll, truck(s) tools and other BS.
a good general contractor will make between 5-15% of the gross. So the more money you bring in the more goes in your pocket.
It cost alot of money to stay in biz. When it was just me, I didn't make a dime until about 5k in profit a month. when I had 7 guys, I had to bring in 45k a month before I saw a dime.
You can only charge so much, I was always on the high end of pricing, you got top end work for it, but you had to pay. Its why I never had to look for work and why People are still calling me now. I've had several home owners tell me they will pay for me to reactivate my lic+ all the BS just to come remodel thier " fill in the blank". If it was not for all the BS that goes along with being a contractor( not just state,but federal, the new lead BS comes to mind) I'd do it in a heart beat, but no way in hell now.
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Building materials, payroll, truck(s) tools and other BS.
a good general contractor will make between 5-15% of the gross. So the more money you bring in the more goes in your pocket.
It cost alot of money to stay in biz. When it was just me, I didn't make a dime until about 5k in profit a month. when I had 7 guys, I had to bring in 45k a month before I saw a dime.
You can only charge so much, I was always on the high end of pricing, you got top end work for it, but you had to pay. Its why I never had to look for work and why People are still calling me now. I've had several home owners tell me they will pay for me to reactivate my lic+ all the BS just to come remodel thier " fill in the blank". If it was not for all the BS that goes along with being a contractor( not just state,but federal, the new lead BS comes to mind) I'd do it in a heart beat, but no way in hell now.
$5K profit or $5k gross? Or maybe I don't know how to calculate profit correctly? I'd have thought it was Gross - cost and expenses = profit?
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In this case I mean money left over after costs. Example a contract ofr $1000, there is $800 in building materials profit= $200.
I was not counting things like gas, insurance, truck..etc just costs of the actual job.
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I'm not a contractor and I don't play one on TV but I've been estimating manufacturing jobs for the better part of 25 years as well as actually making the parts in one form or another. If your gross margins are only 20% you're not going to survive very long.
Now, if you're competing with folks who'll use illegal or immigrant labor on there jobs, your pretty much screwed! We get that here too, just not as much as in the west.
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In this case I mean money left over after costs. Example a contract ofr $1000, there is $800 in building materials profit= $200.
I was not counting things like gas, insurance, truck..etc just costs of the actual job.
Since gas, insurance, truck, etc are part of the job then your estimating sucks.
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I'm not a contractor and I don't play one on TV but I've been estimating manufacturing jobs for the better part of 25 years as well as actually making the parts in one form or another. If your gross margins are only 20% you're not going to survive very long.
Now, if you're competing with folks who'll use illegal or immigrant labor on there jobs, your pretty much screwed! We get that here too, just not as much as in the west.
thats pretty much it right there. I can't tell you the number of times I've been underbid for less then my costs its not even funny.
Now remember as a general, your not doing all of the work, your subs take a chunk of it as well. sub mark up is anywhere between 25% and 100%( I have seen 300% but those guys either have some locked in job, that they bought or don't stay around long)
contracting is diffrent, its either all parts or all labor. you make the money on the labor, not the parts( atleast not enough for it to matter that much) I've done ktichens that were 100k+ and were done in 2 days, charging 20k for 2 days worth of work is a hard sale, if you can do it, more power too you. hell I've done 300k jobs where my time on site was litterly, bid, sign the contract then collect the check. 100% subs, those are the jobs I like, but are always a head ache.
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I'm not a contractor and I don't play one on TV but I've been estimating manufacturing jobs for the better part of 25 years as well as actually making the parts in one form or another. If your gross margins are only 20% you're not going to survive very long.
Now, if you're competing with folks who'll use illegal or immigrant labor on there jobs, your pretty much screwed! We get that here too, just not as much as in the west.
The % of margin is not the only significant number.
The food produce industry runs at a 1% margin and does very well.
This is because, for example, you spend $100 to get produce sold at your shop and you make $1.00 profit after all costs.
Not much, but if you do it every day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year you make $250. A 250% annual return on your investment. Really bust your butt and work 7 day weeks all year and you make 365% annual return.
Turn around time makes the difference.
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The % of margin is not the only significant number.
The food produce industry runs at a 1% margin and does very well.
This is because, for example, you spend $100 to get produce sold at your shop and you make $1.00 profit after all costs.
Not much, but if you do it every day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year you make $250. A 250% annual return on your investment. Really bust your butt and work 7 day weeks all year and you make 365% annual return.
Turn around time makes the difference.
I'll take your word on that and marketing in the food business is about appearance, not freshness for the most part.
My goods don't rot for the most part. Sheet metal is a cutthroat business as well but I've found that if you make a good widgit, deliver in a timely manner with an honest rapport with the customer, you should do fine!
Unfortunately, my previous employer saw it differently! Ship the stuff before the end of the month even if it wasn't finished or correct! He's failing miserably at his way but his narcissistic attitude and ego make it difficult for him to avoid stepping on his own dick!
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Neo-conservative (Trotzky-ite)
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No, a conservative that gave what I think are true and cogent answers to questions that were ill-defined.
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Neo-conservative (Trotzky-ite)
If you think a "neo" Conservative and a Trotsyite are the same thing you do not know crap about conservatives, Leon Trotsky, or Marxist history.
Furthermore, there does not seem to be anything "Neo" about Cains conservatism.