The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: twyacht on September 25, 2011, 06:17:34 PM
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http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/09/robert-farago/kimber-solo-fail/
My FFL took possession of his new Kimber Solo Carry today, one of only three examples that rocked-up to the dealer in the last four months. The $725 msrp striker-fired handgun has something of a rep for, uh, not working. The company’s website warns buyers that the pocket nine was “designed to function optimally using premium hollow-point self-defense factory ammunition with bullet weights of 124 or 147 grains.” Kimber specifically recommends Federal Hydra-Shok JHPs and tells owners to run the gun with 24 rounds before they shove it their pocket (or words to that effect). So Steve fed it 24 rounds of 147-grain Federal Hydra-Shok JHPs and shoved it back in the box, after numerous failure-to-fire and failure-to-eject moments . . .
I’ve got my theories, but I’m taking the Solo Carry down to my gunsmith for independent evaluation. Meanwhile, my FFL has decided not to give Kimber a second chance. Given that he was looking to replace his EDC (Everyday Carry) Smith & Wesson Bodyguard .380 with the Solo, who can blame him?
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Seems "All That Glitters, Is Gold" may have been rushed into production, because the marketers and sales reps. run the show.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=3168900
Reminds me of "another" pistol that shall not be named here at DRTV..... ::)
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Somehow, I knew about this. Don't know why as I haven't shot one yet. Maybe on another forum.
Anyway, I looked at them when the ads first came out. Too expensive and too finicky.
One thing I learned the painful way was to check and see what everyone else shoots. Especially the "winners" in any competition. I've also added to my old-age-tricks to see what the losers shoot. When I'm watching a match and there's a gun failure, I try to find out the details and add it to my mental list. You start to get a picture of which make/models fail more than others. Which ones to avoid.
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The LC9 is starting to look even better than it did before.
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For me, it's just another validation of the "Version 1.0 Rule" - never buy version 1.0 of anything. This applies to guns, electronics, software... anything really. Let 'em work out the bugs and then buy one in a year or so - if they're still in the catalog.
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Read the October American Rifleman last night. The Solo is the cover photo. In both the article as well as in Keefe's editorial it is pointed out that the Solo has a design limitation (on purpose) that only permits it to work with premium SD ammo. In the article, Wiley Clapp, does chide Kimber that many will not like not being able to fire cheaper ammo for practice and he questions the decision.
I will hand it to them, they've made this limitation known up front, unlike other manufacturers who don't publicize or even admit to shortcomings of their products.
Personally, I'd rather a more detail explanation of the limitations. Besides bullet weight, I'd like to know, bullet shape, COAL, velocity, perhaps even burn rates that work and don't work.
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A "premium" firearm, should not be "finicky". What are they taking, the luxury/performance car approach that it ONLY runs on Premium Unleaded?
Please,....
A little break in time, perhaps even a fluff & buff, but if I want to shoot "range/cheap(er) target ammo", it should not even hiccup.
And for the money,....the F&B, and break-in should ALREADY have been addressed. IMHO. The snob factor better get turned down. Brag about your firearm when it shoots everything, ALL THE TIME.
What would Para, STI, Ed Brown, Les Baer,etc,... say (all premium firearms),...if I spent a bunch of dollars on a firearm, and it did not like old milsurp or target/range ammo?
The SOP, is "Oh, just send it back,....we'll make it right"......
Gee,......freakin' thanks,.....For that,. I'll get two Glocks and/or M&P's..for $1000.00.
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I was looking long and hard at one of those as the write up in American Rifleman was positive right up until the ammo statement.
After that, it went south for me!
My Para is still flawless after three years and countless rounds. My SIL has it for the moment to play with, I'm sure it will need to cleaned, thoroughly when I get it back...
I'll agree with Frank...LC9 is still high on the list.
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Read the October American Rifleman last night. The Solo is the cover photo. In both the article as well as in Keefe's editorial it is pointed out that the Solo has a design limitation (on purpose) that only permits it to work with premium SD ammo. In the article, Wiley Clapp, does chide Kimber that many will not like not being able to fire cheaper ammo for practice and he questions the decision.
I will hand it to them, they've made this limitation known up front, unlike other manufacturers who don't publicize or even admit to shortcomings of their products.
Personally, I'd rather a more detail explanation of the limitations. Besides bullet weight, I'd like to know, bullet shape, COAL, velocity, perhaps even burn rates that work and don't work.
Saw it on the cover, stifled a huge yawn, didn't even read the article yet - no reason to spend the beau coups bucks to buy a Kimber. Now, after reading about the engineering design failure marketing feature re' ammo, I wouldn't even ask a gun shop to bring it out of the case. Seriously, WTH?
I am happy with my Para, and with the Sig, especially since I have a .22 kit for it from Sig. New GF shot it a couple of weeks ago, and I think I have created another unwitting Sig lover!!!! ;D
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Read the October American Rifleman last night. The Solo is the cover photo. In both the article as well as in Keefe's editorial it is pointed out that the Solo has a design limitation (on purpose) that only permits it to work with premium SD ammo. In the article, Wiley Clapp, does chide Kimber that many will not like not being able to fire cheaper ammo for practice and he questions the decision.
I'm impressed by the WHOLESALE BULLSHIT that the marketing team came up with.
If a gun won't function with 124/147gr ball ammo, who in their right mind would think it will function just fine with the same weight JHPs going the same speed?
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I thought 115 gr was the most popular bullet weight for 9mm, and it won't work with those? I want to know why not.
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I wondered if they'll release all the parameters that make one round work and another not.
Obviously lighter weight bullets and round nose shape doesn't, since most SD ammo is truncated cone (hollow point). I'd guess that the speed of the powder burning also has something to do with it.
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For the cost of the Kimber Solo and then having to purchase premium ammo also, I would not be the least bit happy. Would suck to have a pistol in 9mm and if we ran into another ammo shortage and could not feed a Kimber Solo. Sad.
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Meh. I'll buy a Beretta Nano, couple of holsters and a s******d of ammo for the price of one KImber. And be pretty sure it will work with whatever I choose to shoot.
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I first heard of the Solo woes from "Average Joe" in his gun review segment on another GRRN sponsored podcast.
Glad to see this review backs up his. (Sarcasm for Kimber)
Kimber needs to learn that a high price does not equal high quality.
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Ok, I read the Kimber Solo article in American Rifleman. Kimber suggested you change the recoil spring every 1,000 rounds. It only holds six rounds. And with a sticker (Shock) price of $747? ??? You have got to be kidding me. This is a firearm that you pay a great deal to shoot with premium ammo, hope you make it through "24 rounds before pressing into service", then you have the maintenance cost of the recoil spring. Really suprised that Kimber would put something like this on the market!?!?
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Nice concept, lousy execution. Kimber should have just chambered it in .380 ACP and chopped the price to around $500, and they might just have something. As is, it is not worth a second look.
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Somehow, I knew about this. Don't know why as I haven't shot one yet. Maybe on another forum.
Anyway, I looked at them when the ads first came out. Too expensive and too finicky.
One thing I learned the painful way was to check and see what everyone else shoots. Especially the "winners" in any competition. I've also added to my old-age-tricks to see what the losers shoot. When I'm watching a match and there's a gun failure, I try to find out the details and add it to my mental list. You start to get a picture of which make/models fail more than others. Which ones to avoid.
One of my friends HAD to get a Brazos Custom Limited gun, while another only buys STI 1911s. Both have had nothing but trouble with them initially. They had to dial in reloads, springs, and sights. Any variation once dialed in, and FTF/FTE. One guy has a Para that is "bulletproof" and with the price difference he got a stack of extra mags and gear.
I've never been really impressed with Kimbers, especially the non-basic 1911.
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My plain Vanilla Kimber Stainless II runs fine, but I would never invest in a chopped 1911, regardless of make. It's not a design that accommodates downsizing very well without sacrificing reliability. More people have trouble with them then don't. A mini Glock runs half the price and has over double the reliability. The only "small" 1911 I would consider is the all Stainless Steel Springfield Champion. It is Commander sized without the Aluminum frame.
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My plain Vanilla Kimber Stainless II runs fine, but I would never invest in a chopped 1911, regardless of make. It's not a design that accommodates downsizing very well without sacrificing reliability. More people have trouble with them then don't. A mini Glock runs half the price and has over double the reliability. The only "small" 1911 I would consider is the all Stainless Steel Springfield Champion. It is Commander sized without the Aluminum frame.
The SA EMP is also a "scaled-down" 1911. Instead of putting a short slide on a full-sized frame, they scaled the whole frame and all components to fit shorter 9mm and .40 cal cartridges. I don't know the reliability track record, but I would still like to have one.
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JMO but if you want a caliber besides .45, or .38 super, why bother with the 1911 ?
In my opinion it's the only choice in .45 acp, but for other calibers there are better choices, in 9MM or .40 I'd go either Sig or S&W M&P Pro.
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Size.
It is a caliber/concealability compromise. Most of the plastic guns are relatively thick (higher round capacity)......but I am willing to give up a round for the added concealability. The EMP isn't much larger than my Colt .380 Gov't Model. My G27 is small for the caliber, but the EMP is way thinner for the same caliber. Of course, it is also cost-prohibitive (at least to me).
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billt, one of the big name gunsmiths/pistolsmiths recommended the Colt Officers ACP LW way before the downsizing trend started. He stated that the stainless and regular steel models were not as reliable. I have had a LW for years and I can't remember it failing. It is one of my main CCW pistols.
FWIW
Richard
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My Para P10.45 works great and it only has a 3" barrel. I read somewhere that the 3" barreled 1911s aren't as reliable as the 3-1/2" guns but I don't see any difference. The 1911 scales down quite well.
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I really like the looks of the Solo but i hate the fact that it requires a certain ammo to function. A defense firearm should work with just about any ammo you feed it. My G26 and my Xd sub dont care what's on the menu.
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I really like the looks of the Solo but i hate the fact that it requires a certain ammo to function. A defense firearm should work with just about any ammo you feed it. My G26 and my Xd sub dont care what's on the menu.
And that SHOULD have stopped Kimber from selling this thing. If it were a dedicated target gun, or even a hunting gun, fine. I can live with the quirks as long as it helps me win matches or bring home a nice buck. Hell, I pay stupid sums of money to shoot Bismuth rounds through my Parker when I hunt wood ducks because it won't take steel (about a buck fifty a round). That's all well and good, but that's because ITS A TOY! I'm not putting my life on line when I take the thing into the field. An SD pistol? Particularly a $750 one? Give me a break. Unless it has Moisin Nagant/AK/Glock relliability I don't want to own it. I want to pull the trigger, hear it go bang, and see a 4" group at about thirty feet with whatever ammo I have on hand. If you can't guarantee that that will happen, I won't take your pistol for free, much less spend the better part of a thousand bucks for one. This one mystifies me. Kimber is a good company and makes nice guns. You would think they would have clued into the fact that for an SD pistol "Every time and all the time with whatever you have" is rule number one. More importantly, you would think that they'd have realized that there is no rule number two. If it won't go bang, its an embarrasing epitaph on your grave stone "I thought it was the best".
FQ13 who is scratching his head
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for an SD pistol "Every time and all the time with whatever you have" is rule number one.
Well put.
I think it would be a real stretch to think that Kimber will catalog this gun in the very near future.
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Picked up a new kimber Solo Carry a few days ago. I was not aware of the 124 / 147 grain SD ammo limitation. I picked up 6 boxes of Hornady 115 Critical Defense, so 150 rounds at the same time. When I got home I discovered the news about the 124 / 147 grain warning. So I decided to see how it ran with the 115 CD loads. I took it out of the zipper case, wiped it down, loaded up the original magazine, the extra mag the dealer gave me and the two I purchased with the gun. I then promptly ran 24 rounds through it from the four magazines. No hiccups, and it worked fine. What a great trigger, and the recoil was surprisingly mild. I reloaded the four mags and the Solo did a repeat performance. Two more times and I was 96 rounds without a hitch. Also the target at 10 yards had a nice hole chewed out of the center mass area. I for one am very happy with my decision to buy this Kimber and have ordered a set of CT Laser grips for my new Solo. Now if I could just get XS to make a set of Big Dot night sights for it. :D I guess this is a case of "your mileage may vary."
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Thanks for the favorable report SJ, good to know. IMHO, Kimber makes top shelf stuff, a silly ammo type disclaimer is a marketing bump on an otherwise smooth road.
Keep us posted as far as other types of ammo. Oh, ......BTW,
we like gun porn.....so post a pic or three.... ::)
Good shooting,
tw
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IMHO, Kimber makes top shelf stuff, a silly ammo type disclaimer is a marketing bump on an otherwise smooth road.
If I remember right, Ruger had a version of the SP-101 in .357 Magnum that had a rollmark saying only 125 grain bullets should be fired in it. I think it was because of the short cylinder.
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If I remember right, Ruger had a version of the SP-101 in .357 Magnum that had a rollmark saying only 125 grain bullets should be fired in it. I think it was because of the short cylinder.
Mine did not and it was from about 2005 per the serial numbers. I shot everything through that little brick!
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http://rugerforum.net/ruger-double-action/20455-older-model-ruger-sp101-357-mag-125-grain-bullet.html
This was all I could find.
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I will keep you posted. My every day carry is a Kimber CDP II Ultra with XS Big Dot night sights and CT Master Series Laser Grips. The only problems I have ever had were my own fault due to limp single hand shooting. If I do my part one handed or two it is reliable and accurate. My preferred carry loads are Corbon DPX. I am using the Hornady Critical Defense 115 grain loads because they were the best ai could find on the dealers shelf when I bought the Solo. I will most likely switch to DPX 9mm for the Solo in the future if it proves to feed well. I will use the Solo when I need smaller CC piece instead of my j-frame and also as a back up gun instead of my j-frame. My j-frame is a 357 but I carry 38 +P Corbon DPX in it.
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Did any body establish what the issue is with the Solo to make it so ammo sensitive ?
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If I recall, it was designed that way!
“designed to function optimally using premium hollow-point self-defense factory ammunition with bullet weights of 124 or 147 grains.”
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If I recall, it was designed that way!
“designed to function optimally using premium hollow-point self-defense factory ammunition with bullet weights of 124 or 147 grains.”
Just thinking in print here, but could you work around that ?
If it is an issue with feeding other rounds would different mag spring tensions matter ?
Or perhaps a change to the feed ramp angle ?
Since SJPrice had no problems with the 115 grain rounds perhaps it's a matter of heavier recoiling loads shortening the life of the gun ?
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All I know is when I buy something, I don't want any comments on how it ain't gonna work!
Just my .02
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All I know is when I buy something, I don't want any comments on how it ain't gonna work!
Just my .02
+1000
Kinda like buying a new truck, and ten miles down the road finding a note on the sun visor that says the right combination of dashboard controls will cause the vehicle to blow up. :-\
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+1000
Kinda like buying a new truck, and ten miles down the road finding a note on the sun visor that says the right combination of dashboard controls will cause the vehicle to blow up. :-\
Or "taking this medication as prescribed will cause anal leakage!"
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Hmmm, I find warning labels like that on items I own all the time. Some of them costing tens of thousands of dollars. I guess I do not see the concern. ???
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Hmmm, I find warning labels like that on items I own all the time. Some of them costing tens of thousands of dollars. I guess I do not see the concern. ???
True, my truck has some restrictive information on how NOT to use the vehicle. But, if someone buys a Solo and the person doesn't have access to the information as pertains to ammo sensitivity, they may assume that the firearm is designed to shoot anything on the market which, according to design, it is not!
Caveat Emptor in all things....
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One would also think that a reputable dealer would certainly make this info about ammo use known before the gun was purchased....but I would bet many do not.
*Edit: I make the above statement based on the probability that many "splurge" gun buyers (you would probably be surprised at the number) do not dig as deeply into the qualities of a particular gun, as many on here do before jumping in and buying. Most rely solely on information provided by the gun monger at the time of purchase. We would all probably be amazed at the number of dealers that are also unaware of the ammo specifications dictated by Kimber for the Solo.
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One would also think that a reputable dealer would certainly make this info about ammo use known before the gun was purchased....but I would bet many do not.
*Edit: I make the above statement based on the probability that many "splurge" gun buyers (you would probably be surprised at the number) do not dig as deeply into the qualities of a particular gun, as many on here do before jumping in and buying. Most rely solely on information provided by the gun monger at the time of purchase. We would all probably be amazed at the number of dealers that are also unaware of the ammo specifications dictated by Kimber for the Solo.
+1 to that!
Bass Pro Shops here in MA is a great case in point, Cabelas in Hartford depending on the time of day too...
My local FFL that I work with is MA SP who's pretty good but I'm always more inclined to do all of my own research.
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+1 To doing one's research on any firearm. Especially the "new" models. Many found that out with the "pistol that shall not be named", and a couple others.
I did a lot of research on my first 9mm purchase, FNP 9, and found a rental range with one and test drove it. Same with my going to the dark side G21 purchase. After seeing so many methods of torture and abuse, and it kept going bang, when the opportunity presented itself, I took a big swig and bought it.
IMHO, a professional retailer, should take the time to give you ALL of the skinny on a pistol, but we all know that varies, and customer service, even big box stores, don't always have the info or skills to provide such info.
I also thought that changing the recoil spring to a Wolff, might change the "flexibility" of ammo, but a 9 is a 9, until you get to +P or +P+ hot loads.
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Did any body establish what the issue is with the Solo to make it so ammo sensitive ?
stiff recoil spring maybe?
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My good experience continues. I received and installed my Crimson Trace grips for my new Solo Carry. I took rough aligned them in my usual manner so the laser travels "parallel" to the bullet path. I headed out to my range, put several shots downrange at 10 yards and made the final adjustments to the laser. I then put 75 rounds of Hornady 115 grain Critical Defense through it using the laser, the sights and both switching randomly between them. When I was finished, I had a fist sized hole chewed in the target. AND I now have over two hundred reliable rounds through my Solo. No FTE's, no FTF's no hiccups. My only concern, and it is getting slightly better as I use it, is the magazine release is overly stiff when I try to eject a magazine with more than a couple of rounds left. I will discuss this with Kimber if it does not sort itself out over time. I plan to sit for a few minutes and work it today to see if it "polishes" to a smoother operation. Overall I can say the great features of the Solo are the size, the grip angle, the accuracy and most of all the trigger. The trigger is smooth and makes it easy to use the inherent accuracy. I will keep you posted as I increase my round count. I would like to hear from folks recommending 124 grain defense loads for the Solo. Especially performance through shorter barrels like the Solo. Thank you!
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Look, has there ever been a thread on any board that was titled "Glock fail"? Or for that matter "Smith J frame fail" or "Bond Arms fail"? The answer is no. End of discussion. Kimber screwed the pooch. Its up to them to fix this and the longer they spend trying to "defend" an unreliable pistol by making idiotic arguments about how being ammo sensetive is NOT a lability, the less likely I am to buy any of their products. Hell, a Les Baer isn't that much more, and an RIA is a whole lot cheaper. and they both go bang with whatever you feed them. Meanwhile my Glock eats whatever I give give it. So, sorry Kimber, but this is not a small issue.
FQ13
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Look, has there ever been a thread on any board that was titled "Glock fail"? Or for that matter "Smith J frame fail" or "Bond Arms fail"? The answer is no. End of discussion. Kimber screwed the pooch. Its up to them to fix this and the longer they spend trying to "defend" an unreliable pistol by making idiotic arguments about how being ammo sensetive is NOT a lability, the less likely I am to buy any of their products. Hell, a Les Baer isn't that much more, and an RIA is a whole lot cheaper. and they both go bang with whatever you feed them. Meanwhile my Glock eats whatever I give give it. So, sorry Kimber, but this is not a small issue.
FQ13
Do these count ?
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=10137.0
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=1643.0
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=1698.0
We have one opinion from SJPrice, any one else shooting the Solo ?
Is this a valid problem, or, like most of the recent recalls, just some crap the lawyers came up with ?
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Did you include the Glock frame split where the kid shot himself through the hand?
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Did you include the Glock frame split where the kid shot himself through the hand?
Missed that one when I searched the archive ;D
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I don't own a Kimber but I must say that I saw an article in my NRA mag about the solo and it is clearly discussed in the article that the weapon is designed to operate with a restricted list of ammo. AND that the springs are recommended replaced at brief intervals. I would guess, though, that info doesn't get to the average sales guy at the gun shops unless they read up on every new piece that comes in the store. I've been to plenty of places where I knew more about what I was looking at than the counter guy did, and I'm no expert.
I don't think Kimbers are worth the pricing but I have to say that I find the SOLO very attractive. I wish more manufacturers would move toward that style of finishing because it's a great CC package.
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I don't own a Kimber but I must say that I saw an article in my NRA mag about the solo and it is clearly discussed in the article that the weapon is designed to operate with a restricted list of ammo. AND that the springs are recommended replaced at brief intervals. I would guess, though, that info doesn't get to the average sales guy at the gun shops unless they read up on every new piece that comes in the store. I've been to plenty of places where I knew more about what I was looking at than the counter guy did, and I'm no expert.
I don't think Kimbers are worth the pricing but I have to say that I find the SOLO very attractive. I wish more manufacturers would move toward that style of finishing because it's a great CC package.
Here's the question Jaybet. Why do you care about aesthetics on a CC piece? It lives in your waist band or pocket. Ugly is just fine. All it has to do is go bang, something the Kimber won't always do by their own admission. Unless its gets the right ammo. Pretty is good for toys, I own a couple of shot guns that are worth more than my truck, but they are toys not tools. Thats where I am looking to place Kimber right now. A pretty toy I would like to own and take to the range. A bet my life on it tool? Hell no.
FQ13
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Here's the question Jaybet. Why do you care about aesthetics on a CC piece? It lives in your waist band or pocket. Ugly is just fine. All it has to do is go bang, something the Kimber won't always do by their own admission. Unless its gets the right ammo. Pretty is good for toys, I own a couple of shot guns that are worth more than my truck, but they are toys not tools. Thats where I am looking to place Kimber right now. A pretty toy I would like to own and take to the range. A bet my life on it tool? Hell no.
FQ13
Think of it this way FQ.
2 girls, both pleasant, identical fittings and function, but one is a model and the other is butt ugly, which one do you pick ?
When all other things are equal a normal person will pick the item that is also visually pleasing .
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Think of it this way FQ.
2 girls, both pleasant, identical fittings and function, but one is a model and the other is butt ugly, which one do you pick ?
Well to put it in context, if the ugly one will "go bang" and the pretty one won't, I'll take the ugly one every damn day. Because the girl in your bed is always prettier than the one in your head. ;)
FQ13 Who will quote Lyle the explainer, and then stand silent. ;D
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Think of it this way FQ.
2 girls, both pleasant, identical fittings and function, but one is a model and the other is butt ugly, which one do you pick ?
When all other things are equal a normal person will pick the item that is also visually pleasing .
Is there some about "identical" that you don't understand ? ::)
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Is there some about "identical" that you don't understand ? ::)
Yeah, you said nothing about willing and able. And like most things in life, you learn with age that apperance means squat, and attitude/aptitude means everything. Listen to Lyle again. ;D
FQ13 who has never dated a "playboy" type plastic enhanced woman, and who never has felt that he's missed out either. ;)
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Yeah, you said nothing about willing and able. And like most things in life, you learn with age that apperance means squat, and attitude/aptitude means everything. Listen to Lyle again. ;D
FQ13 who has never dated a "playboy" type plastic enhanced woman, and who never has felt that he's missed out either. ;)
If you don't know what you're missing you should STFU. ;D
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If you don't know what you're missing you should STFU. ;D
A quick emergency action drill. Close your eyes and reach around your bed. If you find a naked woman you pass. If you find a Victoria's Secret catalog you fail. Just sayin'. ;)
FQ13
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What if I find a 12 ga and all the rest of my stuff ?
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Geez...I just mean that it looks nice. I know aesthetics don't matter when you're defending yourself, but when I'm cleaning they matter a lot. When I'm picking out stuff to take to the range it matters a lot. When I get together with gun buddies and we check out the collection it matters a lot. Whether it works for me CCW is up to me (actually a moot point- NJ remember?) but if I'm willing to feed it Godiva bon bons and it pops every time I pull the trigger, then it works.
As far as it being a nice CCW package, it is compact and it is nicely sculpted- SIG has a term for it on their SAS models I think where everything is rounded and smooth. "Melted finish"? Anyway, if butt ugly was ok and nothing else mattered I'd probably have one piece, but it doesn't and so for some reason I'm on an endless quest to get more, and it's not because they are 100% reliable as a carry piece.
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One more guy with a SOLO that works. I've got nearly 500 rnds downrange and the only problems I've had are FTE's with WW white box 115gr. It will run those when clean for thirty or fourty rounds and then an FTE every couple of mags. These are obvious that the slide is not being kicked back far enough as the ejector just bumps the round out of the extractor but not out of the gun and the next round hasn't been picked up. With 124 and 147gr self defense ammo it is 100%. For cheap ammo to shoot I've been using Speer Lawman 147gr and that is 100% also. The ergonomics and trigger are great and it is way more accurate than it needs to be. Head shots at 50ft are no problem. Bullet wise it will feed anything. The only thing I would have liked is about a quarter inch mag extension.