The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: twyacht on March 24, 2008, 08:51:19 PM
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I'd like to thank the Easter Bunny for a new Walther PPK/S 380.(Thank you for tax refunds), Did not know that Smith and Wesson took over the distribution of Walther's in 2002 from their facility in Maine, until researching Walther's history after the Interarms era.
I've always wanted one since Sean Connery made them look so cool.
The only criticism I can make are the grips and the lack of any pattern on the backstrap that would seem very slippery if sweaty palms or moisture were present.
Also, my local sheriff sent me a letter stating my Concealed Carry Permit was ready! Which I promptly took my lunch hour to get.
Took 2 1/2 months, and $90 for the permit, $75 for the course, 3 trips to the sheriff's office plus gas, notary, ETC,.. But YEAH!
Now purchasing handguns, ( at least in NC ) is now exponentially easier.
With the diverse knowledge on this forum, does anyone have recommendation for a grip improvement, ammo selection, or any other tips or tweaks that might make this little guy be better?
Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
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Congrats on the CCP and a nice choice in carry arms.
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I would recommend Speer Gold Dot ammo. Consensus best choice in .380 where I shoot. Is the North Carolina back?
Mac. Raleigh.
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Mac,
I use Winchester Silver Tip in my P3AT. I tested ammo on phone books and it penetrated and expanded best for me.
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I would recommend Speer Gold Dot ammo. Consensus best choice in .380 where I shoot. Is the North Carolina back?
Mac. Raleigh.
Thank you for the feedback, As far as the USS North Carolina, it was "supposed" to be towed to Norfolk for drydock and maint. She arrived here in the mid 60's and is due for a haul out and service. The cost and politicians are taking care of the delays.
Also the Kitty Hawk, after decommissioning this year or next in CA, is supposed to come here also.
The commissioning of the new USS North Carolina nuclear sub, is in May here in Wilmington. It has flooring taken from the battleship, and the WWI Captains tea set from the original Dreadnought NC.
I've heard 99.9% positive things about Gold Dot, as well as Black Hills, I thank you for your advice.
Tom W.
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Haz, did you try Speer in your tests? While Tom has a little more barrel to work with, and thus more velocity, maybe, whatever works better in the P-3AT would be my choice. I did no tests. Obviously an error I can fix.
Mac
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Silver tips, Gold Dot, Blazer and I can't remember the 4th one. Blazer just plugged up with 0 expansion, Gold Dot came apart and did not penetrate as far. The Silver Tips penetrated, expanded and retained weight.
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I just picked up an older Interarms stainless PPK this past weekend. It is, essentially, new old stock as the owner never fired it and looks as it was just made yesterday. From everything I've read, the .380 ammo that PPKs really like are the Winchester Silvertips, as already mentioned, and Federal Hydra-Shok. Not only do these rounds feed the most reliably, they also offer a very effective round. I plan to also try the Cor-Bon DPX and see which I plan to carry. I love Gold Dots .38 135 gr.short barrel for snubbies, but for a PPK some of the results posted have been disappointing.
By the way Michael, you'll be pleased to hear that I ordered a Pocket Concealment System pocket holster today (Harpoon model) for my PPK to round off the package.... ;D
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Cor Bon! That was the other one I tried! Very little expansion and mediocre penetration.
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Cor Bon! That was the other one I tried! Very little expansion and mediocre penetration.
Did you try the DPX version? This version Cor-Bon cartridge uses a Barnes bullet with amazing expansion....not cheap but a great round.
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Did you try the DPX version? This version Cor-Bon cartridge uses a Barnes bullet with amazing expansion....not cheap but a great round.
Sorry, can't remember.
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Off to Silvertips-R-Us.
Good luck with the Walther. My daily carry is a Smith&Walther hybrid compact in .40. They know how to make guns!
Thanks, Mac.
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Geez, It's been 35 years since I stood on the captains deck of the U.S.S. North Carolina. I'm originally from the Wilson-Rocky Mt. area and when I got married my wife and I took a trip to the beach and wound up there. Glad to hear their refurbing it. Proud ole battleship. As far as ammo, I haven't fired the PPK but the gold dot works flawlessly in my Sig 232. I would recommend going somewhere I could shoot rapid fire. At least 3 shot bursts. To me, that tells how it's gonna feed. The local shooting range here in Denver let me squeeze off a couple of 7 shot bursts with mine. Using my Sig was flawless. Using my CZ83 I didn't know until the rapid fire that I had a bad magazine. The rapid fire caused two rounds to try and feed at once. Glad I caught that. ;)
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Bottom line on ammo and your gun is TEST IT YOURSELF.
As seen on the wolf ammo thread just because a particular ammo works in my XYZ gun does not mean it will work in your exact same XYZ gun.
I give my opinions and self test data as a guide to ammo you may wish to consider and TEST FOR YOURSELF, not as end-all, be-all, final answers.
You need to know that what your carrying will go BANG every time you need it to. Only way to know that is to test it yourself.
One final thing. I shoot off my carry ammo once a year and replace it with new, and even if I go with the same ammo, I test a few rounds from the new box. Quality control is our business, too.
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I avoided Silvertips because, early in their introduction, I found that the "Silvertip" coating of the 9mms would disintegrate into confetti after leaving the barrel. Tiny silver squares all over the range in front of the targets. You could see them glisten in the sun when fired. Don't know how important that was to the ballistic efficiency, but I don't think there was supposed to be a chaff component to the round. Went to Speer and never looked back. I'll give them another look now. Need everything the .380 round can give.
Mac.
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Congrats on the PPK/s. Before S&W started making them Interarms had them made in Gadsden, AL. So there are basically four versions. German made and imported before Interarms, German made imported and stamped with Interarms, US made by Interarms and US made by S&W.
Come on over to the Walther forums for more info. http://waltherforums.com (http://waltherforums.com)
I like my PPK/s, but have also just gotten the P99, my first foray into polymer guns. I really like it and it has become my primary "house" gun.
Alf
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"Lets here it for North Carolina!!!!!!!!!!!" ..
Anyway.. the new PPk's look cool. no doubt.. I would try to find a super good/ thin holster.. thin holster make a big difference. Also, I would look at Speer Gold Dots. Most of the time.. in most calibers they are hard to beat.. and if something does beat them..they are always in the top two or three choices anyway. I do like Winchester ammo too though (especially new ranger bonded, although i dunno if they have it for .380 or not) .. so.. that would be my first two ammo choices to recommend..
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"Lets here it for North Carolina!!!!!!!!!!!" ..
Anyway.. the new PPk's look cool. no doubt.. I would try to find a super good/ thin holster.. thin holster make a big difference. Also, I would look at Speer Gold Dots. Most of the time.. in most calibers they are hard to beat.. and if something does beat them..they are always in the top two or three choices anyway. I do like Winchester ammo too though (especially new ranger bonded, although i dunno if they have it for .380 or not) .. so.. that would be my first two ammo choices to recommend..
Hello Hawkfish, I have no holster yet for the PPK/S, thin would certainly be a plus as its warm and clothing is kinda casual.
Maybe you our others have a recommendation, it would be appreciatied.
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Tom
Living in the desert,I also found carrying concealed in the summer months difficult.
The best solution I've found so far is the "SmartCarry" http://www.smartcarry.com/ (http://www.smartcarry.com/)
Excellent concealment and very comfortable,even when wearing nothing but a pair of shorts/swim trunks & sneakers.
And if you buy directly from SmartCarry,it comes with a 60 day "Like it or Return it" guarantee.That being said,I think you WILL like it.
Jim
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Tom
Living in the desert,I also found carrying concealed in the summer months difficult.
The best solution I've found so far is the "SmartCarry" http://www.smartcarry.com/ (http://www.smartcarry.com/)
Excellent concealment and very comfortable,even when wearing nothing but a pair of shorts & sneakers.(No over shirt needed)
And if you buy directly from SmartCarry,it comes with a 60 day "Like it or Return it" guarantee.That being said,I think you WILL like it.
Jim
There is also a 10% discount if you mention Tom Greshams Guntalk, Charlie Parrot is a great guy, and I'm not saying that JUST because he's an old Marine ;D
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Hello Hawkfish, I have no holster yet for the PPK/S, thin would certainly be a plus as its warm and clothing is kinda casual.
Maybe you our others have a recommendation, it would be appreciatied.
Here's the pocket holster I bought for my PPK.......Pocket Concealment Systems Harpoon model. Very thin, light weight and stiff and extremely well made.
http://pcsholsters.com/catalog_item_HPN.html
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Thank you for the link to smartcarry.com, I watched the video preview and it really is something I'm looking for, Although its a liittle close to "The Boys", and the barrel is really close to Unick (sp)? territory. Also the pcsholsters.com option is right there as well.
I'll look into furthur, I really like this option for concealed carry,
Thanks again, this forum is like a database for what works, doesn't, almost does, or is flat out awful, and I really appreciate it.
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I put about 150 rounds through the Interarms PPK the other day and I have to say, this is one beautiful shooting little pistol. Also, it is remarkably accurate. Not one hiccup of any kind with three different types of ammo....Federal Hydra-Shock JHP, Federal American Eagle ball and Winchester White Box. A little jewel of a gun and wonderfully slim which makes it nice for pocket carry, albeit not a real lightweight. The PPK's ability to see the sights quickly and put it on target very accurately makes it a very nice option.
Now.......the "Walther Bite" I can do without.......I do feel initiated into the club however..... ;D
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I put about 150 rounds through the Interarms PPK the other day and I have to say, this is one beautiful shooting little pistol. Also, it is remarkably accurate. Not one hiccup of any kind with three different types of ammo....Federal Hydra-Shock JHP, Federal American Eagle ball and Winchester White Box. A little jewel of a gun and wonderfully slim which makes it nice for pocket carry, albeit not a real lightweight. The PPK's ability to see the sights quickly and put it on target very accurately makes it a very nice option.
Now.......the "Walther Bite" I can do without.......I do feel initiated into the club however..... ;D
Look at the positive....
It's a less painful initiation than an M1 thumb! ::)
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The rear portion of the slide of the German and Interarms PPKs takes a nice chunk of skin off the rear portion of your thumb. A few bandaids to stop the bleeding from the slide track marks is all that it took and then another flawless 100 rounds downrange....great little gun. Next time the bandaids go on first or perhaps a shooting glove. The famous "Walther Bite" is why the new Smith & Wesson PPKs extended the beavertail, but, IMHO, also ruined the lines of the pistol and its "pocketability". Also, reliability and fit and finish of the new S&W version leaves something to be desired from the older PPKs. If you can find an Interarms PPK you will get a great gun at an excellent price....second only to a German made version.
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As far as the fit and finish, its very good quality. I'm glad I don't need band-aids, the magazines with grip extensions even make it feel better in my hand. I don't think S&W did it any injustice at all. I'm sure the trigger pros would want something lighter than the 17-20 lb. DA pull, but after the first shot the SA's are spot on.
I have had no FTF, FTE, with a variety of ammo, and the more I shoot it, the smoother it gets. The decocker was a little stiff at first, 150 rounds and a few cleanings and lubes later, it is smoother. Wouldn't mind some grip enhancement on the back of the grip as there is none.
Granted the older PPK's have a literal cult following, I didn't want the .32, and I have a "thing" for not trusting used pistols, as a CCW holder, that was not appealing.
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Hey twyacht, how is the accuracy of that ppk? .. ::) They have a great size aspect to them. I was curious about how they shoot.
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It appears the S&W PPK and PPK/S models are a hit or miss proposition but if you are fortunate enough to get a good one out of the box, they appear to maintain their reliability. But those who experience issues from the onset seem to have problems on an ongoing basis. This certainly makes those particular S&W pistols extremely problematic for CCW. Looks like their quality control is inconsistent at best. I'll take an older Interarms or German made model any day of the week.
Some information on the S&W vs. Interarms PPKs from the Walther forum......
http://www.waltherforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7555
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Hello Hawkfish, My first trip to the range yielded great groups at 7 yards, all the the right of center with Magtech ammo.
After CLOSE examination of the rear sight, it was off center, the good ol' manual said to get a brass punch and literally "tap" the sight back to center.
Yes, I was apprehensive, but it did work. First I tapped like girlie-man, than found the level to just bring the sight back to center. It wasn't much, maybe 1/8" inch. But on a short little barrel, it was enough to shoot right.
2nd trip shot nice groups at 3, 7, and 9 yards. Can attribute any disappointing rounds to the shooter :P.
3rd trip better results, and the realization, that with this short a barrel it requires (me anyway), More Practice!
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OK.....after paying a nice chunk of change for a Pocket Concealment System (PCS) holster for my PPK, I have found it to be too large and stiff in my front pocket (OK, I could have worded that better) and wound up trying a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster for $19.95. I love this thing!!! Beats any holster I've tried, hands down, for pocket carry and that includes the PCS I just mentioned (although a work of art to look at), a Robert Mika, a Simply Rugged Pocket Protector and even a Chic Gaylord 8 Ball J frame holster that I found a couple of weeks ago in a gun store in like new condition (a piece of history and a brilliant design).
The perfection of the Nemesis comes from the fact that it weighs nothing, is super thin with a nice soft rubberized feel and a brilliant design where you simply draw the gun from your pocket and the holster's tacky rubberized material allows it to stick like glue to the inside fabric. The super slick fabric on the interior of the holster not only makes for a smooth and effortless draw, it also minimizes any holster wear and makes for an equally effortless re-holstering of your gun. The best thing might very well be the way its soft rubberized material takes the shape of your leg unlike the PCS leather design, for instance, which although nice and thin, is also extremely stiff in its design which creates a huge square in your front pocket which looks ridiculous, especially in dress slacks or a business suit. The other holsters mentioned, while not creating a large square shape your pocket, do create a large lump in your pocket given the open shape construction of the holster itself. These holsters really can only work with heavier weight fabric pants like cargo pants or jeans...not dress slacks or business suits. The Nemesis is very different...it molds and bends with the shape of your leg, doesn't print because of its soft padded fabric which effectively conceals the shape of the gun, and is as comfortable as it gets because the fabric softens the feel of the gun against your leg. The tabs on the perimeter don't stick out like the leather holsters, they simply bend and disappear making the holster blend in very well. A really wonderfully conceived pocket holster......just wished I had tried one sooner.
Being a person who pocket carries 7 days a week, I am delighted to have found a pocket holster that works well for me. A Walther PPK in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster is as slim a carry option as you can find. You can also wear it in either the right or left side front pants pocket. At $19.95, you owe it to yourself to give one a try. You'll be very pleasantly surprised.....and possibly save yourself some big dollars experimenting.
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Hi twyacht. I'm right down the road from you in Southport. I plan on going to the commissioning ceremony for the new USS North Carolina.
I have thought many times about getting a PPK. I had a CZ27 of 1933 vintage. It was a flawless performer, amazingly accurate, and I traded it away like an idiot. My Kahr K-9 is not much bigger than the PPKS. Maybe one day i will talk my way in to it.
Would be nice if it came with a Bond Kit, lol.
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Thank you CDR, I will give it a try, It reads as though you found the right package for the PPK, with a full mag, it is a surprisingly weighted package, I hope to achieve your same result of satisfaction.
Thanks again,
PS Hello Cancerman from Southport, glad a "local" is here on DRTV
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Hi twyacht,
You're welcome and I'm glad you are going to give the DeSantis Nemesis a try, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Regarding the weight issue you mentioned on the PPK, I have found that the weight really isn't a problem if you get a pocket holster that secures the gun within your pocket. By secure I mean that the holster width itself or tackiness of the holster material (the Nemesis for instance) prevents the lateral "swinging" of the rig inside your pocket. While the PCS holster achieves this, it does so by creating a large square inside your pocket and others achieve this with similar bulkiness. The tackiness of the Nemesis fabric achieves this without any bulk, which creates no attention to your pocket or discomfort. Once the holster is secured within the pocket, the shifting that the weight and momentum causes when you walk is eliminated. Once the shifting of the rig is stopped, you'll be surprised how little you will feel the weight, if at all. This is especially true in lighter weight fabric trousers. I can now carry the PPK in a business suit every day with no issues whatsoever.
Now the only thing you need to make sure of is that you have a good belt that keeps your pants from shifting downward. For me it's usually a 1.25 or 1.5 inch Milt Sparks cowhide and sharkskin belt, respectively. I also sometimes switch off to a 1.5 inch Simply Rugged steer hide belt, or a 1.5" Wilderness Instructor's Belt. I also like carrying a Government size 1911 on weekends so these belts do a terrific job. But, having said that, I have found pocket carry really comfortable and convenient as either primary or back up carry. The Nemesis has made it that much easier and comfortable for me, and I like the fact that I ALWAYS have either a snubby or the PPK with me. Next I need a Nemesis for my steel S&W J frame.... :)
Good luck with yours.
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Get lasergrips for it. And congratulations! 8)
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I love the Crimson Trace lasergrips, but between the price of .380 ammo :o, xtra mags :o :o, I will try to put them on my birthday list. The wife will love it ;D. NO MORE SOCKS! ::)
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Well, we can all understand that. You DO need a nice suit and a Berns Martin Shoulder holster to go with it, though. ;D
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Well, we can all understand that. You DO need a nice suit and a Berns Martin Shoulder holster to go with it, though. ;D
Don't forget the car ! MUST HAVE THE CAR ! ;D I'm not real impressed with British Auto's but when I was married I often longed for an EJECTION seat ;D
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Sometimes I long for an eject button myself but others a MUTE button will do!!!!!!!
Richard
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Sometimes I long for an eject button myself but others a MUTE button will do!!!!!!!
Richard
That works ;D ;D I used to tell her (who I taught to drive) "I have the steering wheel, shut up and let me use it."