The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: mward58 on March 25, 2008, 04:09:08 PM

Title: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: mward58 on March 25, 2008, 04:09:08 PM: I use an 870 Remington as my main HD tool. I have my Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in 9mm with a 65 lumen light attached as my backup. What I am seeking is your learned opinions on the pistol caliber carbine as an HD tool. Thanks in Advance!

Happy Shooting,

Mike
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Hazcat on March 25, 2008, 04:14:01 PM: Well considering that in my experience the pistol round is going to gain about 300 fps from that longer barrel it should be excellent.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: 2HOW on March 25, 2008, 04:29:39 PM: I would point out that some pistol rounds will not be suitable to shoot out of a carbine/rifle. The ;) tend to come apart at higher velocities than they were intended to fly. Just a reminder.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: mward58 on March 25, 2008, 04:37:04 PM: Quote from: 2HOW on March 25, 2008, 04:29:39 PM
I would point out that some pistol rounds will not be suitable to shoot out of a carbine/rifle. The ;) tend to come apart at higher velocities than they were intended to fly. Just a reminder.

Thanks 2how,

I practice with this gun at 10 yards and 25. it is very accurate considering the shooter. I bought it for two reasons. I did not feel comfortable with my ability to shoot my 9mm Beretta PX4 Storm yet and I also thought it would be neat to have a long gun with the same caliber as the pistol to take to my gun club. it is an ugly mutt of a gun but performs admirably and folds down to practically nothing for storage.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: pioneer on March 27, 2008, 03:26:20 PM: Quote from: 2HOW on March 25, 2008, 04:29:39 PM
I would point out that some pistol rounds will not be suitable to shoot out of a carbine/rifle. The ;) tend to come apart at higher velocities than they were intended to fly. Just a reminder.

That may be true of "some" ammo, but if you shoot quality (expensive) brand name self defense ammo, you should have no problem. Use the cheap stuff for practice, but when you go to war, use the best you can.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Guns/twoways.jpg)
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: 2HOW on March 30, 2008, 02:09:07 PM: Pioneer, you are right and I would go farther in saying stick with bonded HPs
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: mward58 on March 30, 2008, 10:20:42 PM: Quote from: 2HOW on March 30, 2008, 02:09:07 PM
Pioneer, you are right and I would go farther in saying stick with bonded HPs

I only have eagle and UMC. What would you suggest I use for HD ammo?
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: 2HOW on March 31, 2008, 05:33:27 PM: mward58 , so your shooting 9mm right. I personally ( and others may say different) would shoot 147 grain gold dot bullets JHPs and I would keep on hand some FMJs as heavy as they come. You may check some other sites and see what others are shooting in these pistol caliber rifles, but I would feel good with this.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Lucas on March 31, 2008, 06:01:54 PM: I was actually thinking about buying the CX4 for the simple fact that it will accept the same mags as my .40 PX4. I really like the idea of having a matched set (pistol & rifle). I really enjoy my 10/22 and Mark II setup. However I am somewhat skeptical of pistol caliber carbine. I guess what Im getting at is what are the pro's and con's of rifle in pistol caliber?
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: unique on March 31, 2008, 06:16:02 PM: My wife and I switched to .357 mag rifle/pistols for a couple of reasons;
1-we could shoot both .38 and .357's
2- whatever ammo you're carrying works for both guns, you can't run out of rifle ammo and have a pocket full of pistol ammo.
3- for this area (upstate NY) you don't need more than the .357
4- I couldn't afford to keep a large stock of ammo for various caliber guns
5- you can get one or the other cartridge almost anywhere
6- the lever gun and revolver are more socially acceptable by the idiots (we can't get rid of them so we have to try to live with them)
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: saltydogbk on March 31, 2008, 06:36:00 PM: Right now I'm using 44 mag/special for both a handgun and a carbine. I just like 44s. Second shot usually not required.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: 2HOW on March 31, 2008, 07:12:00 PM: I shoot .40 and .45 and look forward to finding a hi-point carbine in either caliber , makes alot of sense to have 1 round for 2 firearms.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Lucas on March 31, 2008, 07:24:06 PM: Using the same mag for both is just so conveinient. I am honestly not crazy about a pistol cal. carbine, so I am looking for more of a reason to pass up a 5.56 for another .40
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: mward58 on March 31, 2008, 10:21:39 PM: Quote from: Lucas on March 31, 2008, 06:01:54 PM
I was actually thinking about buying the CX4 for the simple fact that it will accept the same mags as my .40 PX4. I really like the idea of having a matched set (pistol & rifle). I really enjoy my 10/22 and Mark II setup. However I am somewhat skeptical of pistol caliber carbine. I guess what Im getting at is what are the pro's and con's of rifle in pistol caliber?

If you like to shoot alot the pistol caliber is a lot less expensive than rifle calibers. That is why I bought the Keltec to take to the range with my PX4. Also lever guns in pistol caliber are fun and less expensive to shoot as well. I also have a Marlin 1894c chambered in 357 magnum. The carbine also has a shorter barrel which makes it more maneuverable for tacticle uses like shooting bouncing beer cans.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: MikeO on May 28, 2008, 11:48:02 AM: A pistol caliber carbine hits harder and is easier to hit with at any range than a pistol. Can shoot them at indoor ranges as cheaply as your pistol. Makes a better club when it's empty too. ;)

Easier on your ears and shoulder than the SG. Easier on the house and furniture if you miss and/or overpenetrate the bad guy.

I've long liked lever guns in 38/357/44. From my Marlin carbine the 125s do over 2000 fps, the 145 Silvertip over 1800, the Rem 165 over 1700. Magtech's 95g SCHP screamed out at over 2200!

I've put several thousand trouble free rounds through a CX4 9mm and like it too. The Win 115 USA FMJ/JHP and Speer 115 GD do about 1325 fps from it. The 124 GD and GS about 1250, the 124 +P GD about 1350.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Michael Bane on May 28, 2008, 12:04:04 PM: I think a pistol caliber carbine is a better alternative than people give it credit for. Little bump in velocity, much easier controllability, ammo interchangeability, etc.

Am fond of the .44 Mag/.44 Special lever gun for many of the reasons mentioned here. An additional advantage is I typically load the .44 carbine with a heavier bullet, hotter hunting load (Winchester 250-gr Platinum, 'cause that's what I've got the most of right now; an equal alternative would be the Buffalo Bore "Reduced Recoil" — HA! — 250-gr lead Keith loads) that would be stiff in a handgun but is easy in the carbine. Gives me 9 (in the Winchester Trapper) hard-hitting rounds, backed with 240-gr JHPs for the reloads and the revolver.

Michael B
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: 2HOW on May 28, 2008, 07:46:43 PM: Cant argue with the lever choice MB but the common man may get a better bang out of the semi loaders in a lesser more common caliber.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Walter45Auto on May 30, 2008, 05:59:27 PM: I like the idea of a pistol caliber carbine, and If Kel-Tec would get off their ass and make a SUB 2000 that took GLOCK 21, or better yet, Glock 30 mags, I'd buy one as soon as they came out! Yeah, a pistol caliber carbine won't let you take down an elk 300 or 400 yards, but at 21 feet down the hall or across the living room Shooting that far don't matter (It doesn't in MY house anyway.). And besides, a Model 92 was good enough for John Wayne!!! ;D
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Michael Bane on June 02, 2008, 12:13:38 PM: I'd buy into a .45 ACP carbine if there was one that didn't have a loony and maybe that used readily available Thompson or Grease Gun magazines. Heck, even an alloy-framed Thompson with plastic furniture (I think the ones with wood furniture come in at, like 8 pounds versus the one-ton that my steel Auto-Ordnance clocks in at).

I'm liking the Thompson pistol with a 50 or 100 round drum...by golly, there's a bedroom gun for you!

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_ta5_f.html

Michael B
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: ericire12 on June 02, 2008, 12:50:34 PM: Quote from: Michael Bane on June 02, 2008, 12:13:38 PM

I'm liking the Thompson pistol with a 50 or 100 round drum...by golly, there's a bedroom gun for you!

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_ta5_f.html

Michael B

Im thinking maybe an IWB carry gun or maybe a car gun! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

(http://www.auto-ordnance.com/images/ao_ta5.jpg)
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: TAB on June 02, 2008, 03:33:41 PM: I think a tommy gun would make a great bed room gun... lots of power, but less chance of over penatration compared to a small rifle cal.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Walter45Auto on June 02, 2008, 04:53:53 PM: The semi-auto Tommy guns are extremely accurate, even out to 300 yards, but they're not a gun you want to carry around too long. definitely a hunker down and wait gun.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: 2HOW on June 02, 2008, 05:39:22 PM: Hi-Point has a .45 in the works and the .40 can be bought now. All reviews of this carbine have been good.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: ericire12 on June 03, 2008, 02:24:42 PM: My "nightstand gun" is a Glock 17 (9mm) with a 33 rd mag. You can also get uber-high capacity mags for the Glock .40s and .45s

Throw in the attachable shoulder stock if you so desire, and you have yourself a nice little "Carbine".

(http://www.redstararms.com/glock-stock-1.gif)
(http://www.finnrappel.fi/TDIGlockStock.JPG)

Or you can go for this bad boy!
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/toemag/DSCN0165.jpg)
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Hazcat on June 03, 2008, 03:48:52 PM: Doesn't the shoulder stock take a stamp to posses?
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: mnshooter on June 19, 2008, 10:43:18 PM: Never mind the tax, which I'm sure was paid... But where do you get the ambi slide release shown in reply #23?
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Ksail101 on June 20, 2008, 08:24:49 PM: From my experience with CQB, and a 9mm pistol round in an MP-5 or other sub machine style rifles, are very effective. The great use and the reason why they are so good in a close quaters situations is they are less penitrative than say the 5.56. You can hit your target get good expansion, kill your target, and hopefully not volley some copper into the next room or two rooms. Your nieghbors may thank you too.

So bad guy dead in hallway, hopefully family safe in room.
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Ron J on June 22, 2008, 01:34:05 PM: Any good lever gun in 44mag loaded with 44SP. Paint it black and call it tactical!
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: 1776 Rebel on July 31, 2008, 03:00:56 PM: My bedroom gun is a Marlin camp carbine in .45 with a jpoint red dot sight on top. Takes 1911 magazines. Cheap, not goofy looking at all and short and light.

There is a picture of the Marlin on Gunbroker

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=105280002#PIC
Title: Re: Pistol Caliber Carbine for HD
Post by: Big Frank on July 31, 2008, 03:56:22 PM: I use a Para double-wide .45 pistol for my home defense gun. It's currently loaded with Pow'r Balls with a listed ME of 550 ft./lbs. https://dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=194 That put's it firmly in .357 Magnum territory but with a much larger bullet. I also have a Mech-Tech Carbine Conversion Unit with the CAR-15 type stock. http://www.mechtechsys.com/1911.html They make them for M1911s and Glocks. You can buy five of them for what a 1927A1 Tommy Gun goes for. I have several mags of up to 15 and 20 round capacity. The power you get from +Ps in the 16" barrel is awesome. I shot a pop can full of water with a 185 grain flat-tip FMJ and blew it in half. Not a very scientific test, but it looked like it was hit by a high-power rifle bullet. I don't use it for HD, I just use the pistol, because the penetration is too much, and the pistol only weighs half as much and is easier to handle. The risk of over-penetration would be much higher with a 9mm because of the higher velocity and small diameter of the bullets. Any caliber of rifle would be too dangerous in the city IMO, unless you use frangible ammo.