The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: twyacht on November 05, 2011, 07:08:06 PM
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Of course he did...
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/u-s-general-tossed-for-blasting-afghan-leaders-as-isolated-from-reailty/
U.S. General Tossed for Blasting Afghan Leaders as ‘Isolated From Reality’
* Posted on November 4, 2011 at 7:21pm by Buck Sexton Buck Sexton
One of the top U.S. Generals in Afghanistan has been relieved of command for calling out Kabul’s leadership as “isolated from reality” and failing to appreciate the U.S. sacrifice in “blood and treasure” to protect them.
Major General Peter Fuller gave an interview to Politico yesterday, and he didn’t seem to pull any punches. Fuller had particularly biting word for Afghan President Karzai, whom Fuller described as “erratic. In response to Karzai’s statement that Afghanistan would side with Pakistan in a war against the U.S., Fuller asked:
“Why don’t you just poke me in the eye with a needle! You’ve got to be kidding me … I’m sorry, we just gave you $11.6 billion and now you’re telling me, ‘I don’t really care’?”
It wasn’t just the leadership in Afghanistan that received flak from Fuller. The Afghan people came under fire for their unrealistic expectations of U.S. ability and lack of gratitude for sacrifices on the field of battle. As Fuller summarized it for Politico:
“If you’re in a very poor country like Afghanistan, you think that America has roads paved in gold, everybody lives in Hollywood. They don’t understand the sacrifices that America is making to provide for their security. And I think that’s part of my job to educate ’em.”
General John Allen, commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, responded to the news of Fuller’s comments that they are “neither indicative of our current solid relationship with the government of Afghanistan, its leadership, or our joint commitment to prevail here in Afghanistan.”
MG Fuller has served in the military for over 30 years. The disciplinary measures facing him will probably push him to retire early. For speaking his mind, Fuller’s career has probably come to a screeching halt.
And of course, this is not the first time that the White House has come down on a senior military officer for getting too frank with reporters. General Stanley McChrystal, known in the Spec Ops community for being a true warrior-commander and counterinsurgency wiz, was fired by Obama in 2010 from the top U.S. military post in Afghanistan.
His crime?
Gen. McChrystal told the world (via his staff) that President Obama had treated their first meeting in the oval office like a ten-minute photo op, and Obama seemed “disengaged,” among other not-so-shocking observations.
At some point, the White House may come to realize that false allies and bad policies are the problem– not blunt generals.
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Some Commander In Chief...
asshat in Chief sounds more fitting...
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My Dad bitches about Karzia, Wanting to talk with the Taliban, and try to negotiate with Iran, and they would side with Pakistan in the event of a conflict with the US.
It's an AMERICAN perspective that is not realistic.
The Taliban is primarily made up of Pashtun's, who compose 25% of the population of Afghanistan. The choice's are exterminate a 1/4 of the population and be considered a psychotic pariah, or find some common ground to start working together toward fixing the country.
America gets pissed at Karzia for talking with the Iranians and admitting they would side with Pakistan.
America can pick up its toys and go home whenever they want, Afghanistan will still be stuck right between Pakistan and Iran.
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America can pick up its toys and go home whenever they want, Afghanistan will still be stuck right between Pakistan and Iran.
At what cost? We have already sacrificed blood and treasure as stated before but at least it was our soldiers at war not civilians.
I have no answers but would you rather fight them here or in the cess pools they live, train, and spread their hate? This war has been ongoing since Biblical times and won't stop until Armageddon and we will be either taking the fight to them or they will bring it to us until then.
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At what cost? We have already sacrificed blood and treasure as stated before but at least it was our soldiers at war not civilians.
I have no answers but would you rather fight them here or in the cess pools they live, train, and spread their hate? This war has been ongoing since Biblical times and won't stop until Armageddon and we will be either taking the fight to them or they will bring it to us until then.
The stated objectives of the invasion of Afghanistan was to remove the Taliban Govt and chase out Al Queda, Everything ince Tora Bora has been nothing but a waste of blood and treasure by a grandstanding congress that has so much invested in PC BS they can not accept the reality that it was a punitive expedition whose soul purpose was to wreck shit and kill people.
This idiocy of "Giving them democracy", in light of the fact they don't want it, is an opium dream of delusion fools.
Magoo, I would strongly suggest you do some research into Afghan history, never mind the religion crap, read up on 3 wars, the first and second Anglo - Afghan wars, and the Soviet - Afghan war.
There are only 2 options in the Region, either ignore it till they do something to piss you off, then wreak havoc on them and go home, or be prepared to kill every man women and child in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Unless you are prepared to exterminate 205,558,947 men, women, and children you will never "win" a war in that region.
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Dittoes to what Tom posted. As far as firing the general, there was no choice. How can you have a guy in charge of working with these people who says in essence; "The war would go a lot better without these ignorant, ungrateful ragheads" (even, and especially, if he is right)? It would have been like Westmoreland complaining about the "cowardly, double dealing ARVN that were screwing up the war effort". Again true, but not so good for diplomacy. Anywho, I think anyone who expects to see a western style liberal democracy in Afghanistan has been drinking the extra strenghth Koolaid. W made fun of nation building during the 2000 campaign, and said it wasn't something he would have the armed forces doing if he became President. He should have stuck with that, and BO should get the hint now.
FQ13
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The way I see it is that the remaining fighters in Afghanistan, now that Al Queda is effectively gone, are actually fighting our fight for us.
They have their own culture that they are happy with, they have their religion, they have their mountains, they have their guns, and they have their pride.
They don't want George Soros, the UN or a damn Starbucks on every corner, and I can't say I disagree with them.
And if any one wants to get into the religious crap they better consider that not one of the 9-11 highjackers was from Afghanistan.
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The way I see it is that the remaining fighters in Afghanistan, now that Al Queda is effectively gone, are actually fighting our fight for us.
They have their own culture that they are happy with, they have their religion, they have their mountains, they have their guns, and they have their pride.
They don't want George Soros, the UN or a damn Starbucks on every corner, and I can't say I disagree with them.
And if any one wants to get into the religious crap they better consider that not one of the 9-11 highjackers was from Afghanistan.
Thank you Tom!
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And another reason that anyone who speaks the truth against the anointed one is history!
Bite me Mr. President!
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Magoo, I would strongly suggest you do some research into Afghan history, never mind the religion crap, read up on 3 wars, the first and second Anglo - Afghan wars, and the Soviet - Afghan war.
Will do.
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Will do.
Its history worth reading Magoo. It also is the sort that makes you wonder why people like me (who teach political history) aren't rich, and why any future politician not paying attention in my class can't be severly beaten, as a means of "inspiring"the others. ;) Its not pretty history either. Here's a bit from Rudyard Kipling's take on it:
FQ13
PS Sir Aurthor Conan Doyle also had Watson as an Afghan vet recovering from wounds suffered in the battle of Maiwand (outside of Khandahar), that went south for the Brits. And we remember none of this why? I reserve the right to Gibbs slap W., Cheney and Obama next I see them.
::)
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!
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Will do.
Off the top of my head I can't think of any particular references on the British wars, but for accurate historical fiction check out the "Flashman " series by George MacDonald Fraser, the first one is about the the first Afghan war.
Charlie Wilsons War is a good view of the politics from the US point of view, but doesn't get into any of the Soviet or Afghan reasoning.
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Terrence Blackburn's "the Extermination of a British Army: The Retreat from Cabul" published 2008 is supposed to be good, but I've not yet read it. There are however a lot of good histories of British India dealing with the three Afghan wars (and oddly, none of them went well ::)).
FQ13
I've enclosed some exerpts from Blackburn's book. It seems interesting and full of contemporary accounts., but hey, I'm a geek like that. ;) (note, scroll up for the excerpts. It starts with the intro, which is worth reading as its deja vue all over again, but its the end of the freebies, scroll up from there and you get some more chapters.)
http://books.google.com/books?id=Eiduxo3wZEQC&pg=PA226&lpg=PA226&dq=the+extermination+of+a+british+army&source=bl&ots=Z5po5b_P_1&sig=5kiMeWsVinrokXs2dJhdRUkw4Qw&hl=en&ei=qDa4TuSHE4ansQKk6cnPAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Its history worth reading Magoo. It also is the sort that makes you wonder why people like me (who teach political history) aren't rich, and why any future politician not paying attention in my class can't be severly beaten, as a means of "inspiring"the others. ;) Its not pretty history either. Here's a bit from Rudyard Kipling's take on it:
FQ13
PS Sir Aurthor Conan Doyle also had Watson as an Afghan vet recovering from wounds suffered in the battle of Maiwand (outside of Khandahar), that went south for the Brits. And we remember none of this why? I reserve the right to Gibbs slap W., Cheney and Obama next I see them.
::)
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!
I read a little from Amin Saikal's "Modern Afghanistan: A history of struggle and survival" and it sounds like polygamy in the royal family has a big part in their struggle. Why the hell would a man want more than one wife? I mean some of it is obvious but then think about the rest of it in exponential terms!?!
Then there is the modern Isalm vs "regressive Islamic medivalism" in the '90s, I thought it was toungue in cheek when someone said it wouldn't take much to bomb some of Afghanistan back to the stone ages, and never thought of it in an ideolgical sense.
Can someone sign off on my transcripts for this class? ;D