The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Stephen A. Camp on March 28, 2008, 08:21:16 PM
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Hello. Today’s range session was with an “old friend”, a shooter that was common decades ago but that has sadly gone the way of too many classic firearms in my opinion. In today’s world, it is probably not ” tactical” enough for many shooters…and that’s fine. While I don’t expect all shooters or handgunners to share the exact same opinions on handguns, I do wish that expense or interest or whatever had remained such that more of the classics could have survived.
The handgun in question is an S&W Model 14-3 in the common 6-inch barrel length. In the early ‘70’s, I saw lots of these being shot on target ranges by both private citizens and police. None of the officers I ever worked with or met carried one on duty, although I understand that at one time some police departments such as Los Angeles, CA did authorize the 6” K-frame Model 14 for duty use. The police shooters I saw using these revolvers were those on the pistol team or those simply wanting to shoot teeny-tiny groups from 7 to 50 yards or so. To some, slow-fire accuracy shooting might be a bit too pedestrian but it still piques my interest and is one aspect of shooting that I personally remain committed to. In my opinion, Jeff Cooper had it right when he suggested that the triad of handgun effectiveness might be tied to “speed, accuracy and power.” I see the need for all (in self-defense or to a degree, hunting scenarios) but sort of think that as a whole, maybe some of the shooting community has begun placing less emphasis on being able to make precision shots. I could be wrong, but based on the types of shooting I read about and see on the range, I may not be.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/SWModel14wadcutterstile1.jpg)
This Model 14-3 was purchased NIB from a friend and at a fair price for both of us. It came with the target rather than service type S&W checkered stocks along with the serrated target trigger and wide-spur target hammer. Grips shown are some long-discontinued Fitz “gunfighter” grips. I don’t intend to do any gunfights with this revolver, but do find this old design very comfortable.
The wind was straight out of the north today and to me was “chilly” bordering on “cold” so I shot my Model 14 only at 15 and 25 yards.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/Ammunition/SWModel14003.jpg)
These two 18-shot groups were fired double-action at 15 yards and from a seated position with my wrists braced with sandbags. No effort was made at speed. Ammunition used was from Georgia Arms and is available as “canned heat”. This nicely reloaded ammo is constructed of new components and groups well enough for my purposes. For those who might be interested, Georgia Arms has a site at www.georgia-arms.com . The ammunition on the right is listed as a “Plated Semiwadcutter” but is actually a plated flat point bullet. The 158-gr. LSWC is rated at 775 ft/sec by the factory while the plated bullet is listed at 25 ft/sec faster. Both chronographed a bit faster than 800 ft/sec from this revolver’s 6” bbl.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/Ammunition/SWModel14001.jpg)
These shots were taken at 25 yards and were fired single-action. I was seated with wrists braced as mentioned previously. The target is the NRA B-24. I suspect that the revolver/ammunition combination is capable of tighter grouping but I am not. This is plenty tight enough for me but a younger shooter with sharper eyes, better reflexes and the shooting foundation to really group, might could find a better one. I fear that I no longer can. I would encourage those who can to try. One can still shoot the more “practical” type drills and be capable of “dotting the I”.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/SWModel14007.jpg)
Here you can see not only the wide target hammer and trigger but the trigger stop that was available on some of the S&W line. FWIW, I did see one of the stops come loose on an early Model 19 and really lock up the gun. Were I using a revolver for “serious” purposes and it was so equipped, I’d make very sure that the stop was really secure or might remove it entirely.
I have read in several places what the “purpose” of the handgun is. As I’ve mentioned before, the purposes of my handguns are whatever I want them to be. Others may disagree and that’s fine but this Model 14 will be used to work on precise shooting and just having fun. Speaking only for myself, shooting strictly for enjoyment has significant merit and this revolver “just fits my pistol” in that application.
If you get the opportunity to shoot one of these old things, I suggest giving it a try. It may hold but six shots and be "only a 38" but I really think some shooters would be very pleasantly surprised. If this sort of thing is not a shooter's "cup of tea", great but give it a shot so to speak before deciding.
How I wish these things were still around NIB and as common as they used to be. I really believe that many of us didn't realize how nice we had it back in the "good old days"...
Best.
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Excellent report and I agree completely with your observations.
I would be over joyed with those groups at 15 or 25 (Hell, I'll take your 25 group at 15!)
I also agree on your 'hunter' scenario. Too many are happy with a pie plate at 100 yards!
Oh! I forgot to mention... PURTY GUN!!
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Those are nice groups. I agree with you about "modern" shooters not being as concerned with that kind of precise shooting. I have been at the local range when local LEO's were qualifying, I was shooting on 1/2 scale silhouette targets and keeping my shots inside the 9 ring. They were shooting on full size targets and all over the paper, I'm talking about 18 inch groups, at the same distance ! I heard the instructor tell one Sheriffs Deputy, " If it's touching the silhouette it counts as a hit."
Just remember, "They are not "tactical" enough for some" is what keeps the price down where the rest of us can afford them. ;D
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Hello and thanks for the kind words. Glad that the post was of interest.
Best.
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Hello and thanks for the kind words. Glad that the post was of interest.
Best.
Did you notice that any more when you walk into a gun shop there are CASES of semi's, then way in the back are a few wheel guns? That is where I go first! (but not too quickly...don't want to 'give signals' ;) )
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Did you notice that any more when you walk into a gun shop there are CASES of semi's, then way in the back are a few wheel guns? That is where I go first! (but not too quickly...don't want to 'give signals' ;) )
Yes, I have noticed that. The only revolvers on display up front are the "Super blasters" .454's .500 S&W that sort of thing, Maybe an occasional .44 mag, but all the other revolvers are down back where you only go if you are looking for something special, Like maybe a revolver ;D And revolver prices are more reasonable as well.
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Yes, I have noticed that. The only revolvers on display up front are the "Super blasters" .454's .500 S&W that sort of thing, Maybe an occasional .44 mag, but all the other revolvers are down back where you only go if you are looking for something special, Like maybe a revolver ;D And revolver prices are more reasonable as well.
I do believe you mean "Real Gun" ;D
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I do believe you mean "Real Gun" ;D
If it doesn't start with 4 it ain't a "Real gun" ;D
Just joking there, I actualy prefer .357 mag in a revolver. Love my .45 1911 though.
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If it doesn't start with 4 it ain't a "Real gun" ;D
Just joking there, I actualy prefer .357 mag in a revolver. Love my .45 1911 though.
TOM!! >:(
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It's what I started on, When I was about 13 my Dad got a deal on an S&W model 27, Hiway Patrolman Blue 4 inch in 357, been shooting that caliber ever since. I've had 9mm's and .45 as well (And .22's of course) but until I I'd shot this RIA .45 for a while my defense gun was ALWAYS a .357 revolver. I sold my Taurus in Jan. but when finances allow I will be replacing it with either a Taurus Tracker or a Ruger GP or possibly SP. I want Stainless and 4 inch barrel. I like the idea of the porting on the Tracker but have not shot one yet, I don't know what the differance is between the SP and the GP but I shot a GP a few years ago and liked it a lot. Before I buy I will go to the range and try all 3 ;D
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Hello, Hazcat. When I spot a revolver that I might be interested in at a shop, I usually take my time getting around to asking if I might look at "that ol' thing" or something similar. I've been lucky in that some of my better "finds" were once-owned-but-shot-very-little-and-carried-less DA six guns.
Best.
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Hello, Hazcat. When I spot a revolver that I might be interested in at a shop, I usually take my time getting around to asking if I might look at "that ol' thing" or something similar. I've been lucky in that some of my better "finds" were once-owned-but-shot-very-little-and-carried-less DA six guns.
Best.
Yep! You can get some deals on those 'old fashion' guns. ;)
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Hello, Hazcat. When I spot a revolver that I might be interested in at a shop, I usually take my time getting around to asking if I might look at "that ol' thing" or something similar. I've been lucky in that some of my better "finds" were once-owned-but-shot-very-little-and-carried-less DA six guns.
Best.
Thats how my Buddy just got his Dan Wesson .357 for $250 Best part is he knows the Guy who traded it in ;D
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Thats how my Buddy just got his Dan Wesson .357 for $250 Best part is he knows the Guy who traded it in ;D
And had he bought it straight up they both would have got a better deal.
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And had he bought it straight up they both would have got a better deal.
No, The guy who had it traded it toward an AR, My buddy saw it in the gun shop and liked it. If the guy who had it came to him and said "Do you want to buy a .357 revolver?" he would have said No. It was after he'd seen it and was obsessing about it that he found out whos gun it had been.
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TBo3884, just reinforces my opinion of S&W revolvers, I own many, but the .38 and .357 revolvers should shoot 2" or less and many will shoot 1" groups at 25 yards. The j frame revolvers in .38 special have always shot to point of aim with 158 grain round nose. The newer ones shoot to point of aim with 125 +p's. The older blued guns are beautiful and as you demonstrated, up to the task. I think the .38 special is still the most bang for the buck. Inexpensive, accurate, and reasonably hard hitting with modern ammo, and being able to stack the shots one on top of the other, certainly doesn't hurt. I have found very little difference in the accuracy with the same revolver in .357 shooting .38's. I shot .38 specials in IPSC, loaded to major caliber for years, 158gr lead roundnose, at 1150 fps, only used in .357 magnum revolvers. And even then would get 10 reloads per case, .38 special is like .45 acp, the primer pockets wear out before the case does.
I'm glad your bringing out that old warhorse, an accurate firearm always has a place in your ditty bag, even if it only has 6 shots.
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I just traded off a 3" s&W model 65 that would shoot 1" groups at 40 yards. Hated to get rid of it, but didn't have the cash to not trade it. Oh well, somebody will get a nice new(used) revolver.
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Mr. Camp:
I don't know a more enjoyable form of range recreation than leisurely and precisely shooting standard .38 Specials through a fine S&W K38. Thanks for the inspiring post.
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Hello and thank you very much for the kind words. I am glad that the post was of interest.
Best.
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i aquired a S&W model 10 combat special from my dad not too long ago,ive been obsessing over for quite a while,bright nichol finish no less.its a pretty sweet piece with great trigger action,smooth as butter,im happy with it.
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Nice groups and nice revolver. I have always been an auto guy but I have developed a love for nice revolvers. I always like to shoot my guns for accuracy as well as working on the speed. Sometimes just sitting at the bench trying to shoot tight groups can be as enjoyable as the other aspects of shooting.
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Had a 14-1 (I believe) as my first pistol. Did a little trigger job...shot like a house o fire. Sold it in a moment of weakness. Am looking for a 586/686 in 4" for my next purchase to use in IDPA. Sorta miss revo shooting.
Richard
PS: Nice groups by the way!