The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: mauler on November 18, 2011, 10:02:38 AM
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I have reloaded .45 with Win 231 with lead bullets for almost ten years now. I am considering switching to a cleaner powder. A buddy of mine suggested both Blue Dot and Tite Group. Let me know what y'all think would be a good choice. I don't want to spend twice as much for the powder just to get a cleaner burn.
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I just started using TiteGroup and I like it. It's cleaner, burns faster, and you can "soft load" your rounds and still have a fairly snappy round.
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I just started using TiteGroup and I like it. It's cleaner, burns faster, and you can "soft load" your rounds and still have a fairly snappy round.
That has been the general consensus at my local range also. I have a pound I want to try with my .44's.
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Are you talking cleaner as in particulate matter or just soot?
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I have tried Titegroup and Ramshot Competition, and I prefer Competition. But Titegroup is not a bad choice either.
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Are you talking cleaner as in particulate matter or just soot?
Ya got me there M...schmutz is schmutz...less smoky I guess, and loading lighter leaves less lead in the barrel.
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Ya got me there M...schmutz is schmutz...less smoky I guess, and loading lighter leaves less lead in the barrel.
I have people tell me that my powders are "dirty." I get smoke that I notice out the ports on the open gun but not on the others, and I get a lot of black soot on the muzzles as much as a inch back on a full day of 500 rounds. I don't consider this soot as dirty. It has never caused any accuracy or reliability issues. However, I use a powder in my shot shells that leaves residue that looks like unburnt flakes in the barrel. That I consider dirty, but I like the performance of the reloads, and it has never caused an issue in any shotgun.
The difference between my powders is that I will not use the shot shell powder in my handguns, because I'm not sure how that residue would affect all the moving parts in such a small space.
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The cleanest burning, but most expensive are the Vitavorhi's (sp). But with lead bullets you're always going to create a cloud of "smoke". Several indoor competitions now prohibit lead bullets, because of the lead "spray". Not the impact cause spare, but the lead smoke that comes out the barrel.
I went to VV to try and minimize the "cloud" but finally had to accept that lead will always be smokey. Moved to copper plated for 9mm and .45, and true jacketed for .44 and .357. My smoke cloud went away after that.
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The cleanest burning, but most expensive are the Vitavorhi's (sp). But with lead bullets you're always going to create a cloud of "smoke". Several indoor competitions now prohibit lead bullets, because of the lead "spray". Not the impact cause spare, but the lead smoke that comes out the barrel.
I went to VV to try and minimize the "cloud" but finally had to accept that lead will always be smokey. Moved to copper plated for 9mm and .45, and true jacketed for .44 and .357. My smoke cloud went away after that.
I shoot cast bullets almost exclusivly in my handguns. The smoke comes from the bullet lube melting and being burnt. The only thing lead can dois lead the barrel.
When I'm finished with the cast bullets i fire a mag full of jacketed bullets thru the gun and that gets rid of any leading that may be there. The cleaning is i little greasy but hoppes takes care of it just fine.
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I used a lot of WW 452 AA (which was a SG powder) to load .45 and .38 Spl. and it worked very well. I now use WW Super Target which replaced 452. I haven't had any trouble with unburned powder in SA or revos. and don't plan to switch. WST seems to recoil less also. I have also used a lot of 231 for both cals. and find it very accurate.
FWIW
Richard
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But with lead bullets you're always going to create a cloud of "smoke".
Agreed. That's why I've stayed with WW231
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Are you talking cleaner as in particulate matter or just soot?
Cleaner in that there is less of the caked up soot in the gun when I go to clean it. A lesser smoke cloud when performing bill drills would be a bonus. FYI to the forum: After reading a lot of internet reviews I bought some Hodgdon Clays. I will post on my experiences with it.
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NEVER, EVER fire jacketed bullets to "clean out" lead fouling. you can litterly blow up a gun doing that. ( granted thats the extreme case)
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NEVER, EVER fire jacketed bullets to "clean out" lead fouling. you can litterly blow up a gun doing that. ( granted thats the extreme case)
That sounds like a guy who has never shot the cosmoline out of an SKS barrel. LOL
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I just shot the first 10 rounds I loaded, and I am amazed. I think I may be running the bullets a little bit slower than I was with W 231, since I was just guess-timating my loads with it.
This stuff (Clays) is incredibly soft shooting and it appears substantially cleaner than 231. It almost felt like shooting a different gun. I am very excited. I feel like an Israelite who just came out of the wilderness after 40 years.
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What about accuracy?
Richard
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How do I post a picture that is stored on my computer hard drive?
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How do I post a picture that is stored on my computer hard drive?
You can post it to photobucket and copy the "IMG" link or, when you post a thread, look down and left and you'll see "Additional Options". Click that and it will open an attachment option where you can post a picture from your PC if it's smaller than 300 kb in file size.
It will look like this..
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Ok. Thanks. I will try to post photos of a group I shot with Clays.
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What about accuracy?
Richard
I was going to post a picture of a couple groups I shot, but it is too big to post. I shot a 10 shot group at 15 yards and it did pretty well with the cheap lead bullets I use. It would probably not be suitable for bullseye, but for IPSC it is just fine.
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HAPPY TIME!
My little sunday army of 200 gr SWC, each sittin' on 5 gr of TiteGroup. Party Time!(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll237/jaybethel/Leadforest.jpg)
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I think I recognize some of that brass my friend!
;) ;D
I'd send more but I haven't squoze a bang switch in quite a while!
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I haven't squoze a bang switch in quite a while!
Me either, but I might get to pop a few caps this Sunday.
I was just in wally-world yesterday and they had the biggest stock of .45 ACP that they have had in at least two years. They had 6 boxes of 25o-count UMC bulk for $96 per and plenty of the WWB 100 packs.
Unfortunately, I only had funds for 150 rounds @ $55. :(
I'm patiently bidding my time until January......... (when my new reloading room will become available) to set up my Dillon 550. :D
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my first 20 or so years of USPSA was shot with a .45 and cast bullets, many of them cast by me... agree with ellis4538 that Win 452AA was the most accurate powder I've shot... WinSuperTarget (WST) is very good and a universal pistol and shotgun powder (by far my favorite all around propellant)...since the polymer coated and the copper washed bullets have become popular a lot of the smoke for practical shooting has been eliminated... my last pistol before going to the polymer dark side used Montana Gold or Berry 230s with Clays (was shooting a lot of shotgun for the STC at the time)... would not recommend Clays for a .40SW
Clays, WST,WinSuperField (WSF) can usually be found in bulk at trap/skeet ranges and good prices... most of the intermediate burn rate shotgun powders works well in the .45....Red Dot, PB and others... I think VihtaVuory is a little overkill for a .45 where you don't need the higher velocity with lower pressure as you would in a smaller case capacity
if you have a fiberoptic front sight, and not a dark square traditional sight... your sight picture will change with lighting conditions and distance as you may not be able to see the top of the post and hold elevation for long range plates
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Back in my NRA Bullseye days, I shot 230gr lead bullets over 5.0 grs of Accurate #5. It was very accurate in my Ser. 70 Colt and didn't dirty-up the the gun too badly. Some muzzle soot, but not a lot of un-burned crud in the barrel.
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BS.. " I love the smell of black powder, and the dirt that Unique leaves behind.
Yes... "They tell you lead is bad.... Hmm been casting lead in a basement since the 50's and Im still here.
"They want to ban lead for shooting... BS... THINK just how much lead is in our lakes? fishing sinkers...
Enjoy life now and do what you want to do..... Because tomorrow congress will take it away from you.
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jj raises a good point, the talk about lead shot in lakes, or lead bullets in range berms being "hazardous" is a load of crap.
Fish and water fowl would die if they ingested the same amount of pebbles containing no lead. The solid form, such as shot, or sinkers is not what creates the hazard, it is unvented fumes, ( I would bet jj has good ventilation in his casting area ) and soluble forms of lead such as used in old paints and other chemical processes that create a danger.