The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on November 29, 2011, 02:07:49 AM
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Okay, here is a thought. How about a book club? We could read books we talk about, but most of us haven't read like Alinsky, or the Anti-federalist Papers. Or just a novel, or histories of gun makers or obscure wars, like our intervention in Haiti. Or we could look at the classics like Locke, or Mill, or the History of the Peloponnesian War, or Machiavelli. I really don't care. I think this could be fun if we establish two rules.
RULE #1 No political cheap shots. This is about our takes on the book and comments should be about the text.
RULE # 2 If you you disagree with a member phrase it in terms of "You saw X and I saw Y, and page 56 seems to support my point". We generate plenty of heat on this board. I would like this thread, if we agree to do it, to generate light. That means we all play nice and come ready to learn, not argue,but rather to debate.
I know its a stretch, but I think we can do it. It can either be on a thread or a live chat. Someone gets stuck with moderator duty on each book. They get the conversation going, suggest topics etc. It means agreeing on a text and a schedule, but I'm willing to give it a go. Heck, we can let M'llete be our Oprah. ;D
FQ13
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Admittedly, you have me interested, but I would not start up till after the holidays. I'm booked up till new years. :(
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John Ross," Unintended Consequences" Accurate press, 861 pgs.
You've seen the blurbs on the back covers of books, "a real page turner", "couldn't put it down" ?
Usually they are BS, or hype.
I picked this book up at the library yesterday, when I got home around 6:30 PM I decided I'd check out the first couple pages.
3:30 AM I decided those comments fit this book perfectly and if I didn't put it down then I was not going to bed.
It's a novelized history of the "Gun Culture" so far, I'm on page 213, which has brought me up to 1964, and it is still setting up the back ground for the main story, But it has already covered subjects as diverse as "The Bonus Army", Ed McGivern's and Ad Topperwein's world records, and the Warsaw Uprising, and places like the banks of the Mississippi in St Louis, and the Griffin and Howe store in NYC.
It's not all historical info either, there is quite a bit of technical information woven into the story as well.
So far I'm glad I'm only a 1/4 through it because I don't want it to end.
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John Ross," Unintended Consequences" Accurate press, 861 pgs.
You've seen the blurbs on the back covers of books, "a real page turner", "couldn't put it down" ?
Usually they are BS, or hype.
I picked this book up at the library yesterday, when I got home around 6:30 PM I decided I'd check out the first couple pages.
3:30 AM I decided those comments fit this book perfectly and if I didn't put it down then I was not going to bed.
It's a novelized history of the "Gun Culture" so far, I'm on page 213, which has brought me up to 1964, and it is still setting up the back ground for the main story, But it has already covered subjects as diverse as "The Bonus Army", Ed McGivern's and Ad Topperwein's world records, and the Warsaw Uprising, and places like the banks of the Mississippi in St Louis, and the Griffin and Howe store in NYC.
It's not all historical info either, there is quite a bit of technical information woven into the story as well.
So far I'm glad I'm only a 1/4 through it because I don't want it to end.
You might consider buying a used copy because I gaurente you will be reading it again. If you think it is good where you are at wait till you are about 3/4 of the way thru it. I have read it 3 times already and the only book I have read more was "Time Enough for Love" by Robert Heinlein. ( 6 times). please note my signature line.
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My Dad told me the outline when he recommended it ;D
As much as I would like to I don't see that happening unless I run across a copy at a yard sale or thrift store,
but if I do that suckers MINE.
http://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Consequences-John-Ross/dp/1888118040/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322579368&sr=1-1
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Barnes and Noble has them for 29 bucks new!
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Barnes and Noble has them for 29 bucks new!
Currently unavailable. :(
But they DO have a used, signed copy for ONLY $499.00!!!!!!!!!!!! :o :D :D
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/unintended-consequences-john-ross/1001770498?ean=9781888118049&itm=8&usri=unintended+consequences+john+ross
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Currently unavailable. :(
But they DO have a used, signed copy for ONLY $499.00!!!!!!!!!!!! :o :D :D
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/unintended-consequences-john-ross/1001770498?ean=9781888118049&itm=8&usri=unintended+consequences+john+ross
Yeah, I'll be all over THAT. ::)
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I'll be near a B&N today or this week sometime. I'll take a look myself locally if anyone is interested. I don't have the funds at the moment so if I buy one, I'd need a secondary buyer to reclaim the funds.
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I'll be near a B&N today or this week sometime. I'll take a look myself locally if anyone is interested. I don't have the funds at the moment so if I buy one, I'd need a secondary buyer to reclaim the funds.
Dude, if they have one in the store for $30, I'll send you the money +shipping....and maybe even a finder's fee. ;D ;D ;D
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Dude, if they have one in the store for $30, I'll send you the money +shipping....and maybe even a finder's fee. ;D ;D ;D
You got it Chuck...I'll let you know. No fee's required my friend, buy one of your grandbabies a new toy!
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Waiting for the Kindle version to get published....have no idea if it is planned, but I sent the request to the publisher.
Doesn't appear in the online catalog of my local library....better check in person.
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Just called the local store. According to the comely voice on the phone, it's out of print and no indication if it will be available anytime soon! Hence, the $500 signed copy on the interweb!
Sorry Chuck!
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Just called the local store. According to the comely voice on the phone, it's out of print and no indication if it will be available anytime soon! Hence, the $500 signed copy on the interweb!
Sorry Chuck!
You know, of course, that $500 copy comes from the author, don't you?
Pecos
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You know, of course, that $500 copy comes from the author, don't you?
Pecos
I presumed as much but it's not indicated that it's anything but a signed first edition.
I recently unloaded about thirty first edition Stephen King and will regret if for the rest of my days. I still have a FE Hunt for Red October that was signed in my presence.
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Actually, further investigation indicates that it's a privately owned, signed copy, shipping from Regina, Saskatchewan.
So, how much is 500 bucks in Canadian pesos?
Should be free since they got that ugly chick on their currency... ;D
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Actually, further investigation indicates that it's a privately owned, signed copy, shipping from Regina, Saskatchewan.
So, how much is 500 bucks in Canadian pesos?
About $515 these days. :'(
FQ13
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Try this,
Accurate Press
PO Box 190040
St. Louis Mo 63119
(314) 352 - 1700
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Try this,
Accurate Press
PO Box 190040
St. Louis Mo 63119
(314) 352 - 1700
http://accuratepress.net/
Unintended Consequences is unavailable. We will post the next printing here for sale. It will be softcover.
http://john-ross.net/
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never been a book reader really,
however since getting the iPad I have got a couple of books on it
a couple of home brew books and aquarium ones a comady book from the blokes that do Red State update called Let there be FaceBook
also who own's an iPad and did not have Steve Jobs Biography
so when will trail safe be on iBooks Store ;)
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Finished it at 9:20 PM.
If you have not read this you have got to.
Go to your local library, put in an "Inter library loan request".
Don't make any plans for a while.
Now lets start feeding the hogs. ;D
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never been a book reader really,
however since getting the iPad I have got a couple of books on it
a couple of home brew books and aquarium ones a comady book from the blokes that do Red State update called Let there be FaceBook
also who own's an iPad and did not have Steve Jobs Biography
so when will trail safe be on iBooks Store ;)
I have Trail Safe on my Kindle....surprised it isn't on iBooks also.
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I found and ordered Unintended Consequences from Books A Million www.booksamillion.com for $34.99 with tax and shipping.
I have received an email order confirmation, but not a shipping confirmation yet. Hoping it is really in stock and will be on it's way soon.
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Just got email from Books A Million that the book has been back ordered.
Looks like they won't be a source either....not at that price, anyway.
I'll post what happens.
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I should have kept the one from my local library and just paid them the depreciate cost to buy it. Probably could have had it for $10.
Hmmm. Every year they have a large book sale, maybe I should go next time and see if they've rotated it out. I might still be able to pick it up for next to nothing.
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I should have kept the one from my local library and just paid them the depreciate cost to buy it. Probably could have had it for $10.
Hmmm. Every year they have a large book sale, maybe I should go next time and see if they've rotated it out. I might still be able to pick it up for next to nothing.
Crap, I returned it this morning. :-\
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Crap, I returned it this morning. :-\
Does NH issue Out-Of-State library cards? ;D ;D
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Being a tourist town I'm pretty sure you could get one with a summer address. ;D
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Ross's Unintended Consequences is available for online reading from Scribd...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53268063/Unintended-Consequences (http://www.scribd.com/doc/53268063/Unintended-Consequences)
If you buy a 1-day pass ($5) you should be able to download the PDF. Of course there's that whole ethical-moral-legal thing to workout for yourself... ripping copyrighted material and such.
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Ross's Unintended Consequences is available for online reading from Scribd...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53268063/Unintended-Consequences (http://www.scribd.com/doc/53268063/Unintended-Consequences)
If you buy a 1-day pass ($5) you should be able to download the PDF. Of course there's that whole ethical-moral-legal thing to workout for yourself... ripping copyrighted material and such.
It's only " ripping copyrighted material and such." if you plan to reprint it and sell it.
Considering the content if you printed it out and gave away copies it would be a public service.
Even if the people receiving them reimbursed you for paper and ink.
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My moral/ethical stand against stealing copyrighted material gets weak when it is no longer being published and all sales are 3rd party.
You are taking nothing from the one holding the copyright.
I can only assume those paying in excess of $100 for this book are collectors and they have no interest in a PDF/loose paper copy.
But the book/music copyright means that there can only be one reader at a time for the book. So making paper copies to give to friends at no cost while the book is in print is a violation. It is a little different with music. You can make copies for your own personal use...for instance, you can have it on a cd, cassette tape if you still need one, on your iPod and a MP3 copy to listen to on your computer....the rule again is single user access..
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I've been a bad student and have been reading Unintended-Consequences instead of my International Dynamics text book. ::)
I read a passage that jumped out at me:
Henry," Irwin said finally, "I hope that you never lose interest in your shooting skills. If we had had a fewless doctors and musicians in 1940, and a few more boys like you, perhaps what you see in these photosmight not have been possible." Irwin Mann took a deep breath. "But Hitler and his brownshirts did notallow Jews like me to have guns."
"It's kind of the same way around here, but with Negroes," Henry replied, remembering what Al Goodmanhad told him. page 150
I arrived in Germany in December of '89 two weeks after the wall fell. During my tour there we visited Dachau, one of the first concentration camps in Germany, saw the very groud thousands of Jews, political prisoners and other enemies of the state lost their lives. At 19 I understood the evil men are capable of, but it took me well into my 30's before I realized that the Second Amendment was our insurance against the government abuses like those I saw in the museum at Dachau. I will be sharing this with my family over the next few months (four women versus one man makes it an uphill battle when it comes to things they would rather not think about) and will make it a point to "remind" them as my kids enter adult life.
Great book to kick off the DRTV book club. What's next? ;D
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One that's still in print ?
"A Rifleman Went to War" by Herbert W. McBride
http://www.amazon.com/Rifleman-Went-War-H-McBride/dp/0935856013/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323447524&sr=1-1
A look at machine gunning, sniping, and the Canadian Expeditionary Force in WWI by an American rifleman who served with them.
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OK, my suggestion for the next book is Altas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I'm sure many of you have read it but I have not.
We watched the movie last night, best movie of the entire 2 week vacation, out of at least a dozen we watched (4 alone yesterday).
If you haven't seen you should, it's only a dollar out of the Red box 8)
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OK, my suggestion for the next book is Altas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I'm sure many of you have read it but I have not.
We watched the movie last night, best movie of the entire 2 week vacation, out of at least a dozen we watched (4 alone yesterday).
If you haven't seen you should, it's only a dollar out of the Red box 8)
It is great book, and one that I firmly believe every American should read once. However, let me repeat that, its one every American should read ONCE. I will not read it a second time. I mean hell, y'all give me crap about long posts and John Galt has a thirty four page speech. Even Fidel Castro would be impressed by that. ;D It is worth a read, but for the Cliff Notes version read "Anthem". Its about 150 pages and hits all the high notes.
FQ13
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I did a search on Altas Shrugged before I posted this and saw your comments on Ayn's background contributing to the book's make-up and how she was attacked as opposed to countering the points she made in the book.
What was her "unconventional" sex life anyway?
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I did a search on Altas Shrugged before I posted this and saw your comments on Ayn's background contributing to the book's make-up and how she was attacked as opposed to countering the points she made in the book.
What was her "unconventional" sex life anyway?
Its in the book. Ayn was a bit twisted. She was a strong and proud woman, but still wanted the big strong man. Its why Dagny (her alter ego) was the sidekick. She wrote a piece (for playboy I think) saying how a woman shouldn't be president since a man should be the leader and a woman should choose the right man to follow, even though I'd have voted for her in a heart beat. Despite all her rationalism, she never applied it to gender roles. Its kind of sad really, but everyone has their blind spots. If she'd thrown off her own blinders it would have been Jane Galt as the hero. As for her sex life? She carried on a life long affair with her friend, and her husband was fully aware of it. The book pretty much tells the tale, its a woman in love with two men, and she expects them both to be rational enough to deal with it. In her case they were. More power to her.
FQ13
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Be fun to put her in a room with the guy who wrote "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" ;D
FQ expressed why I hate Russian authors, I may read "Anthem", It's very doubtful I will read "Atlas Shrugged".
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Be fun to put her in a room with the guy who wrote "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" ;D
FQ expressed why I hate Russian authors, I may read "Anthem", It's very doubtful I will read "Atlas Shrugged".
The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo was my first thought after reading FQ's critique here.....
I've read Atlas Shrugged a few years ago. And another Rand book, the title I cannot recall, when I was in the army...back in the mid/late 60s. Read it because I was told I reminded folks of a Rand character....didn't like the character... but I might have fit the bill...he was naive and and idealistic...unbelievably so, which I was not ;D ;D ;D
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"The Fountainhead" ?
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"The Fountainhead" ?
Don't remember....what I recall it was about is a guy who is in some kind of totalitarian compound...not sure it it was a gulag type of thing or just a commune under totalitarian rule...seemed like a gulag to me it eitehr case.
He somehow escapes/leaves and manages to fend for himself while developing all the freedom based ideals....best as I recal..
Maybe he returned to lead a revolt...not sure...might of been how I thought it should go..
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The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo was my first thought after reading FQ's critique here.....
I've read Atlas Shrugged a few years ago. And another Rand book, the title I cannot recall, when I was in the army...back in the mid/late 60s. Read it because I was told I reminded folks of a Rand character....didn't like the character... but I might have fit the bill...he was naive and and idealistic...unbelievably so, which I was not ;D ;D ;D
Sounds like my 18 year-old son, and every other male in their late teens/early twenties that I've known ;D
Unfortunately the next book I'll read will be "Finance and Accounting for Nonfinancial Mangers", since I'm already 5 chapters behind the required reading....Ugh....
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I just finished Stephen Hunter's latest Bob Lee Swagger novel "The Third Bullet".
Bob Lee is convinced to take a look at the events of 11-22-1963 from a shooters perspective .
Hunter points out certain things not understood by previous investigators, who were not Marines, or knowledgeable about guns and the associated technology such as scopes or ammunition.
While the story is strictly fiction, bringing back characters from previous books, as Hunter tends to do, the questions he raises are truly valid and his scenario throws an intriguing twist into the "Conspiracy" theory .
I can not recommend this book highly enough and I'm going to quit writing before I give anything away ;D
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Convinced me. Ordered it.
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You won't be sorry.
Have you read any of his others ?
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You won't be sorry.
Have you read any of his others ?
Yes..several of them. I didn't buy it only because of your recommendation, but I did buy it today because of it. Thanks.
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I can't say any thing else. ;D
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I just picked up "The Federalist"!
I'll let you know how it ends!
8)
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I finished "The Third Bullet" on the flight home Saturday. I loved it, especially the self-deprecating shots Mr. Hunter takes at himself. Good read and the most plausible conspiracy theories I've heard, not that I pulled out my tinfoil hat but close.
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Any new books to read? I just finished American Sniper by Chris Kyle. The scum that killed him deserves a special kind of pain.
Good book, not as we'll written as Lone Survivor but a good read none the less.
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I have been rereading old favorites, the only one of my favorite writers with a new book out is Clive Cussler and all 3 copies at the library are checked out :(
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I really liked the Third Bullet too. Especially how it focus's on the brain shot of JFK. Everything makes sense for LHO to have made the kill up til then. I don't see a moderate velocity FMJ causing that kind of damage and causing brain material to exit the head at what appears to be a 45 degree angle from the entry wound.Hunters tale while fiction is physically factual. I like how Hunter explains away not finding that last bullet but don't you guys think there would be fragments left behind.
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I really liked the Third Bullet too. Especially how it focus's on the brain shot of JFK. Everything makes sense for LHO to have made the kill up til then. I don't see a moderate velocity FMJ causing that kind of damage and causing brain material to exit the head at what appears to be a 45 degree angle from the entry wound.Hunters tale while fiction is physically factual. I like how Hunter explains away not finding that last bullet but don't you guys think there would be fragments left behind.
The fragments would be scattered through the brain.
But no one knows where that went.
It disappeared between Dallas and Washington.
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Here are two recommendations, for now. I REALLY liked the the book "Lights Out" by David Crawford. Excellent read and a very entertaining story. Very thought provoking as well. A very similar story is "One Second After" by William Forstchen. Same kind of story. IMHO, they are great but sobering reads.
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I finished "The Third Bullet" on the flight home Saturday. I loved it, especially the self-deprecating shots Mr. Hunter takes at himself. Good read and the most plausible conspiracy theories I've heard, not that I pulled out my tinfoil hat but close.
I just finished it myself. I agree that it was a good read and quite plausible.
I did come across either an error or a typo on p. 403 when the book was describing Swagger going through the old Abercrombie and Fitch warehouse.
The bound books of firearm sales, required by the ATF since 1938, were casually distributed through the mess.
This should be 1968 and bound books of out-of-business dealers are turned into the ATF when the company goes out of business. I don't know when the requirement to turn in bound books was established so that part might be correct.
While I'm sure there may be other errors, that was the only one that jumped out at me. As I said above, it was a good read.
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Reading Walden by Thoreau, again...
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Reading Walden by Thoreau, again...
You are close enough to drive over there and read it on site . ;D
He wrote "On Civil Disobedience" while living there as well.
When you read keep in mind that if he were alive today Thoreau would be a flaming liberal.
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Currently re-reading 'That Dark and Bloody River'. by Allan Eckert. Will also re-read 'Border Wars of the Upper Ohio Valley' when I locate my copy. Murder, rape, and other sordid atrocities on the colonial frontier.
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Kenneth Roberts also wrote several very good books on the era from the French and Indian war through the War of 1812.
He focused on NH and Mass though.
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When you read keep in mind that if he were alive today Thoreau would be a flaming liberal.
Albeit a very thrifty and responsible one! Remember, he said "I have a trade for every finger on both hands!"
Not a lazy guy by liberal standards...he expected people to live within their means...preached it rather!
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Let's see, EMBALMING: History, Theory, and Practice, Robert G. Mayer. Seven hundred, twenty-eight pages of YAWN. Grief Counseling by Worden; Interpersonal Skills Training by Wolfelt, Concerning Death by Grollman, and Second Chances by Chuck Gallagher.
Can you tell what I am getting ready for in the coming months?
On the lighter side, Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill, by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman and Gloria DeGaetano, and Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's On Killing. OK, these are not light reading, but they are excellent information that I use when presenting and debating with anti's.
Truly on the lighter side, finishing The Mulligan, second book by Nathan Jorgenson. I read his first one, Waiting On White Horses, and have number three A Crooked Number on the self waiting. Jorgenson is a dentist in a town about 45 miles away from here, and I met him at my bullseye club there.
Also ordered Michael Janich's The Best Defense, A Complete Guide To Personal And Home Defense. I read this twice on my trip to New Orleans a couple weeks ago. Great book that records the advice given in the shows, plus more. A lot of good information for classes and presentations. And, I will be recommending it for students!
Tonight is sort through the stack of trade journals to reorganize and prioritize, since I can't keep up with them as quick as they come.