The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Frosty on December 04, 2011, 07:01:57 PM
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99.9% of americans have absolutely no clue to what is going on down along our southern border and south of it into that 3rd world crap hole they call a country. Americans are just as they were when our military went to war in Iraq, as one Marine pushing into baghdad stated "America not at war - the Marines are at war, , America is at the mall shopping! the same can be said about ICE and Border Patrol. When will we as a nation wake up to what our so called leaders in D.C. aka: Fools on the Hill are not doing to secure our nation? Our military secures the borders of many other nations but our own, what's wrong with this picture? By the way it was our military Spec Forces that initially trained the Zetas.
The following is from NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FORMER BORDER PATROL OFFICERS
Visit our website:http://www.nafbpo.org
Zetas Issue Open Challenge to US and Mexico Governments
Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/12/02/zetas-send-challenge-to-us-and-mexico/#ixzz1fcHD8Prh
Mexico's ultra-violent Zetas drug cartel released a communique challenging Mexico and the United States.
"Message to the nation, the government, and all of Mexico and to public opinion: The special forces of Los Zetas challenges the government of Mexico and its federal forces," said the communique, which was signed by Zetas leader Miguel Angel Treviño Morales, also known as Z-40.
The Zetas were formed in 1999 Heriberto Lazcano Lazcano, known as "El Lazca," who along with three other soldiers deserted an elite special operations unit within the Mexican army to become the armed wing of the Gulf drug cartel.
Not the Army, not the Marines nor the security and anti-drug agencies of the United States government can resist us.
- Zetas communique
The Zetas are now one of the most violent and powerful cartels operating in Mexico. The former paramilitary group is considered to be one of two dominant cartels in Mexico, along with Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán's Sinaloa cartel.
The group is believed to be responsible for the attack on a casino in Monterrey earlier this year that left 52 people dead.
"Not the Army, not the Marines nor the security and anti-drug agencies of the United States government can resist us. Mexico lives and will continue under the regime of Los Zetas," the communique went on to state.
While most of the violence related to the Zetas has remained in Mexico, the group has made headway into the U.S. with recent attacks and the capture of cartel members highlighting this infiltration. Last month, a botched drug bust outside of Houston left a U.S. secret operative dead and a sheriff's deputy injured after Zetas gunmen surprised the operation.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents also deported last week Donis Ruiz a suspected Zetas member wanted for kidnappings in Mexico.
"Let it be clear that we are in control here and although the federal government controls other cartels, they cannot take our plazas. You want proof?" the communique asked. "Look at what happened in Sinaloa and Guadalajara. If we can get all the way into their kitchen we are not going to lose control of our territory."
The Zetas are considered the second most powerful cartel in Mexico behind Guzmán's Sinaloa cartel, with one or the other group present in almost every Mexican state.As they battle for lucrative smuggling routes, the two cartels have recently ramped up attacks on one another.
Back in September in the Gulf coast city of Veracruz, Mexican authorities discovered the bound and tortured bodies of 35 alleged Zetas members dumped by the Sinaloa cartel onto a main thoroughfare in the city. In May, over two dozen people, most of them Zetas, were killed as they attempted to infiltrate the Sinaloa cartel's territory in the state of Nayarit.
Since President Felipe Calderón declared war on the country's drug cartels shortly after taking office in 2006, an estimated 35,000 to 40,000 people have been killed in Mexico's ensuring violence.
Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/12/02/zetas-send-challenge-to-us-and-mexico/#ixzz1fcGexEtz
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I posted here over the Spring about Zetas snipers targeting Americans with Barrett Rifles. Also the incursions into American territory, by the Federalis that are on the Zetas payroll..
The NG on the border, and a wall, and an enforcement, not a lawsuit for border states, including snipers of our own, will bring this to an end.
Let a few Zetas bodies float down the Rio Grande, the majority will run like the roaches they are...
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/ATT1047326.jpg)
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Try living in a state with people who don't speak English................................AT ALL!
This topic is the only topic I agree on with Rick Perry - not enough done to secure the border. I say bring back the "NATIONAL GUARD" from overseas (WTF???) and put em on station along the US/shithole, I mean Mexico, border.
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This is good news. Its the same kind of crap that got Escobar shot. He was a folk hero to some because he gave millions to the poor (I don't know if the Zetas are that smart). And then he started pulling this kind of crap and people said Bastante!. A few months later and he was gone at the hands of "Colombian" security forces.
Actually, I really do think we on this board should be giving Mexico props. We value the Constitution, and Mexico has been more or less keeping theirs. If it were 45,000 Americans dead in 5 years? There would be a tank on every street corner and the Bil of Rights would be a fairy tale grandparents told the little kids at bed time. Heck, look how ape shit we went over three thousand dead at the hands of foreigners (and the madness continues with the SB to let the military do away with Habeas Corpus). Can you imagine what we would have done/will do if 45,00 were dead at the hands of domestic enemies? :o :o :o I shudder to think about it. Anyone still think legalizing drugs is a bad idea?
FQ13
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I agree with sealing the border but why stop there: why not let them go forward into Vietnam ... uhhh .... Iraq ...... oops ..... Afganistan ..... oh blast ..... Mexico and wipe out these cartels once and for all. LOL
Seriously I don't think we could completely seal the border but having the Guard there is sure a lot better than where they are now.
Pecos
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Pride comes before the fall. I don't think a few Zetas floating down the Rio Grande will suffice, I think you need to turn the river red with their blood as an example for any other aspiring criminal entrepeneurs.
BTW real professionals never tip their hand.
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I agree with sealing the border but why stop there: why not let them go forward into Vietnam ... uhhh .... Iraq ...... oops ..... Afganistan ..... oh blast ..... Mexico and wipe out these cartels once and for all. LOL
Seriously I don't think we could completely seal the border but having the Guard there is sure a lot better than where they are now.
Pecos
Not the Guard, Defending the US is the only reason the Army even exists.
Put them on the border with orders to kill any thing coming North.
From snakes on up.
From the OP.
"By the way it was our military Spec Forces that initially trained the Zetas."
From the article
"The Zetas were formed in 1999 Heriberto Lazcano Lazcano, known as "El Lazca," who along with three other soldiers deserted an elite special operations unit within the Mexican army"
A little exaggeration there.
Worthy of the NYT. ::)
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obama needs the votes and to hell with legal Americans.
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Anyone still think legalizing drugs is a bad idea?
FQ13
Isn't that a little like the Cops suggesting to rape victims to lay back and make the best of/enjoy it?
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Isn't that a little like the Cops suggesting to rape victims to lay back and make the best of/enjoy it?
No, I don't have time to go into it but the war on drugs is , with the NFA, and GCA 68, one of the most egregious power grabs you have been convinced to accept.
It's for the children.
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I agree with sealing the border but why stop there: why not let them go forward into Vietnam ... uhhh .... Iraq ...... oops ..... Afganistan ..... oh blast ..... Mexico and wipe out these cartels once and for all. LOL
That would involve wiping out every mexican, colombian, american, etc., etc., etc., who wants to make a ton of money from iliicit sales.
They are like the Lernaean Hydra, cut off one head and two more grow back.
Do we have enough VX stored to blanket the entire border? That might work.....or we could legalize the drugs, keep the money in our country and the cartels would no longer have a reason to exist.
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That would involve wiping out every mexican, colombian, american, etc., etc., etc., who wants to make a ton of money from iliicit sales.
They are like the Lernaean Hydra, cut off one head and two more grow back.
Do we have enough VX stored to blanket the entire border? That might work.....or we could legalize the drugs, keep the money in our country and the cartels would no longer have a reason to exist.
It's a lot easier than that, end the "War on Drugs".
The President who did that would cut crime and half the National debt in one term.
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Isn't that a little like the Cops suggesting to rape victims to lay back and make the best of/enjoy it?
Difference is that a drug user is not a victim. If they choose to do drugs, it is their choice and they face the consequences.
If drugs were legalized, price would fall, quality would become standardized and the government would be making money off the deal, by not needing the Drug Police or all the prison space taken up by drug offenders...50% I've heard, and the revenue drug sales would bring in.
The cartels would be gone, the turf wars would be gone, addicts would not be robbing folks to support their habit anymore than wino's do.
Only downside I can think of is that a lot of folks taking payoffs from supporting the war on drugs would be out a pile of cash....wait, maybe that isn't such a downside after all.
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One aspect is the indigent/broke addicts and legalization. Since they won't have to steal/rob/or burglarize anymore to support their habit,,...Would they be entitled to free drugs? Who would supply them? Oh I can see the pot/crack/heroin/pill/ meth lines stretching a long way for free drugs for the "poor"...
Gov't providing drugs to it's citizens? Or subsidizing legalized "drug stores"...Kinda like WIC or food stamps?
Sounds great....(sarcasm added)... ::)
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Just like we provide free whiskey today? ::)
FQ13
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The cartels would be gone, the turf wars would be gone, addicts would not be robbing folks to support their habit anymore than wino's do.
I have to disagree with you there. A lot of these drugs are very powerful. They can cripple a persons capacity to do even the simplest tasks. Also look at the effects that these drugs have on the human body. Many taking days and sometimes weeks to leave the system completely. I wouldn't want to be working next to someone who I knew was addicted to heroin. Would you? I do agree that the War on Drugs is a scam, and it needs to be gone, but legalizing powerful narcotics for over the counter sale is still a bad idea.
Addicts will still be robbing people to support their habits and the turf wars will still go on. Just look at illegal cigarette trade. And narcotics are going to cost a lot more than cigarettes when the government gets done taxing them. Although I agree that legalization and EXCESSIVE taxation would be a surer way to decrease use than further criminalization.
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I have to disagree with you there. A lot of these drugs are very powerful. They can cripple a persons capacity to do even the simplest tasks. Also look at the effects that these drugs have on the human body. Many taking days and sometimes weeks to leave the system completely. I wouldn't want to be working next to someone who I knew was addicted to heroin. Would you? I do agree that the War on Drugs is a scam, and it needs to be gone, but legalizing powerful narcotics for over the counter sale is still a bad idea.
Addicts will still be robbing people to support their habits and the turf wars will still go on. Just look at illegal cigarette trade. And narcotics are going to cost a lot more than cigarettes when the government gets done taxing them. Although I agree that legalization and EXCESSIVE taxation would be a surer way to decrease use than further criminalization.
You mean lik booze and tobacco, both of which are more addictive than heroin. ?
Here's 2 reasons to end the war on drugs,
No knock searches in which cops have killed innocent citizens in every single state.
Asset forfeiture laws, that allow the confiscation of property from citizens with out conviction for a crime.
"But it's for the children"
My ass.
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I have to disagree with you there. A lot of these drugs are very powerful. They can cripple a persons capacity to do even the simplest tasks. Also look at the effects that these drugs have on the human body. Many taking days and sometimes weeks to leave the system completely. I wouldn't want to be working next to someone who I knew was addicted to heroin. Would you? I do agree that the War on Drugs is a scam, and it needs to be gone, but legalizing powerful narcotics for over the counter sale is still a bad idea.
Addicts will still be robbing people to support their habits and the turf wars will still go on. Just look at illegal cigarette trade. And narcotics are going to cost a lot more than cigarettes when the government gets done taxing them. Although I agree that legalization and EXCESSIVE taxation would be a surer way to decrease use than further criminalization.
Keeping drugs illegal will work just as well as keeping booze illegal was working.
And if you keep it illegal you will still have black markets and their suppliers and Law Enforcement working to stop the flow...nothing will be changed. Or we can just have the laws making them illegal and don't prosecute anyone for manufacturing/selling/using drugs.
I bet you wouldn't like working next to a drunk either...and industry manages to get them out of the work place if they show up impaired.
If you want to spend money on the "drug problem", make them available to someone who is willing to see a Dr. for counseling and treatment/rehabilitation.
And this can be done at the local level without the feds being involved.
I notice you think that addicts will still need to rob and mug to get drug money because the government will tax it. Well, seems the problem is not with the addict but the government. Stop them from trying to legislate what someone wants to put in their mouth and get taxes back to where they should be...very minimal.
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Tom, Solus,
I can't argue your points. I know that you are both right. I have just seen the effects of hardcore drug use close up. (Cousin)
People get so messed up on things like meth and coke that I can't see the benefit of legalizing them. I say that addicts will still rob and commit crimes to procure drugs because they wouldn't be able to get, or hold a job. The drugs would just have them too messed up. So I think they would turn back to crime in order to get their fix.
Look at Amsterdam, where stuff like this is legal. The most thriving industry there is prostitution. It's because so many people are tripped out that they can't do anything constructive.
I am with you 100% on the fact that the drug police are way out of control and need to be disbanded. Along with the BATFE. These agencies are a joke. They have way too much power, and no oversight.
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Here is your problem JC. You and TW have fallen for the drug warriors sleight of hand.
The illusion goes like this, they start with the problems caused by drugs, and these are very real. They talk about addiction, broken homes, health issues, stealing to support a habit and the like. No one is denying all that is real.
But then, and here is the sleight of hand, while your eyes are on the poor addict (who they want to put in jail on your dime), they start talking about gangs and murder and corruption and evil drug dealers and the like.
Here is the lie, they want you to conflate the evils of drug use with the evils of a black market. News flash, there is an inverse relationship between the two. Legalize drugs and all the evils of the black market go away, and the evils of drugs are mitigated, though not eliminated, through regulation and people opting for "softer" drugs like pot and coke as opposed to crack and heroin. Or go with prohibition and get all the evils of a black market plus the evils of drugs AND, you increase those evils by a lack of regulation and an incentive to create ever more potent drugs. Think I'm lying? Go to a college football game. Most college kids drink beer or wine coolers. At football games they drink whiskey and vodka as its easier to smuggle into the stadium than a six pack.
You said it yourself when you referred to the violence in the ILLEGAL cigarette trade. Operative word here being illegal. If the state creates a black market through prohibition or punitive taxation violence follows like night follows day.
FQ13
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Tombogan
Mexican Drug Commandos
KPHO | May 19, 2005
They were the elite "special forces" of the Mexican military, trained in the U.S. at the School of the Americas at Fort Benning, Georgia and sent to "wipe out" one of the most powerful Mexican drug cartels.
But these soldiers deserted and became the muscle for the very cartel they were supposed to destroy.
www.kold.com/story/3394374/los-zetas-draw-concern-of-us-government?
US-trained Mexican commandos pose threat to authorities
KVOA | May 20, 2005
The U.S.-Mexico border is becoming more violent.
The feds have been alerted through a memo to law enforcement throughout the southwest, telling them that Mexican commandos are now working for drug cartels.
You'll be shocked to learn where the commandos were trained.
The memo from the Justice Department warns that Mexican commandos were trained by U.S. forces, but switched sides. They are now using their deadly skills to work for the drug cartels.
They were elite forces trained by the U.S. Army at Fort Benning, \Georgia to battle against the powerful drug cartels.
US created monsters: Zetas and Kaibiles death squads
Posted by Brenda Norrell - October 9, 2008 at 12:57 pm
By Brenda Norrell
TUCSON --The death squads of the Zetas, trained at the US School of the Americas, are now carrying out murders for Mexican drug cartels and hired as killers in Iraq. The Kaibiles, Guatemalan death squads trained by US Special Forces, are now responsible for murders and rapes in the Congo and around the world. In Mexico, US trained death squads attack and murder Indigenous Peoples, including the Zapatistas, struggling for dignity, autonomy and survival. The United States training of death squads and torturers is one of the most censored issues in the media.
;D
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That's a hell of a lot different than that BS about "the US trained the cartels".
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I never said the US trained the cartels. Go back & read the original post because this is what I wrote "By the way it was our military Spec Forces that initially trained the Zetas."
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You make it sound like they trained the whole Zeta's cartel when in fact it was three members who had training.