The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: twyacht on March 31, 2008, 08:59:32 PM
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With ammo going up across the board, I have a chance to buy a new Ruger Mini 30 in 7.62.
Not familiar with this rifle, but ammo is cheaper than my .223 Sig 556, and considering the stainless and black polymer stock, Garand style action, is this a good rifle or are there other comparable choices?
Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
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As far as I know, Ruger still does not recommend that the less expensive foreign or surplus 7.62x39 ammunition be used in the Mini 30. If you follow this advice, you will not sustain any savings in the cost of feeding it. If you do not follow this advice, you risk many jams that will make you wonder why you bothered to save money to begin with.
The Mini 30 is not known for great accuracy, but it is probably no worse than the AK rifles in the same caliber. It is handy and points well. With a decent set of ghost ring sights it should be a good trunk rifle. The Mini 30 only works properly with factory Ruger magazines.
I don't know if a Mini 30 can get through a demanding rifle course such as the one at Gunsite. If it can't, I would not use one.
That said, a bolt-action carbine, built right, would do the same job of a trunk gun and be more reliable. It would also be available in a better caliber.
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I have sold a few mini30's and every one has had excellent feed back except for the lack of Factory mag being available. Now there is this to be said, every one of the mini30 owners has a AK which cost less and in all but one groups are very close.
So if you want it for the and considering the stainless and black polymer stock, Garand style action,
then its a good pick. If that was a poor attempt at a salesman line look at some AKs in the same price range or less.
NOW that being said, I have a bunch of projects going at the same time, and the 5.45 AK74 has sparked a itch due to super cheep ammo and a TON of mags with better than average AK accuracy.
hope it helps man.
tex
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I went through the same delima as you did and I almost bought the Mini 30. But when it came down to it I went with an AK instead. Both guns are reliable and tough, but I though the AK trumped the minin in both these catagories. Also an AK will shoot just about anything. Mine gobbles up wolf and other surplus ammo with ZERO problems. I've also been able to use any mags I want in the thing and have had ZERO problems there. That was the main deal breaker for me for the Mini. No high cap quality mags.
Now all that being said, if your heart is set on it and you are getting a good price, buy it and you won't regret it. But if your on the fence like I was, go for an AK. There are tons of aftermarket stuff for them and you can make it into what you want.
Hope this helps :)
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I've never heard that minis whether 14 or 30, don't like surplus ammo. I have one of each and 95 % of their diets have been Wolf steel case laquered ammo. My 30 has a Choate pistol grip camo stock and Choate birdcage flash suppressor and front sight. I've also put an after market rear sight on it. Mags are the ONLY shortcoming of the Mini-30. It feels and handles better than my tricked out Maadi AK-47. Shame on Ruger for the mag problems.
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Thank you for the input and experience. An AK is also an option but I want a GOOD one, the one's here look like an Afghan soldier cleaned parts of camels and such with it.
Is an AK-74 any better? Read some magazines about them and would want one that would be THE ONE to get. The 5.45 seems too expensive and an expensive one to shoot.
Good plentiful ammo that isn't a "variant caliber" would be awesome, due to ammo prices going one way, up.
Please advise, I really respect the entire spectrum of this forum and as Lucas posted, I too, have been disappointed with other forums that want to get in a P****** contest over what an individual wants in a firearm.
Thanks again,
Tom W.I went through the same delima as you did and I almost bought the Mini 30. But when it came down to it I went with an AK instead. Both guns are reliable and tough, but I though the AK trumped the minin in both these catagories. Also an AK will shoot just about anything. Mine gobbles up wolf and other surplus ammo with ZERO problems. I've also been able to use any mags I want in the thing and have had ZERO problems there. That was the main deal breaker for me for the Mini. No high cap quality mags.
Now all that being said, if your heart is set on it and you are getting a good price, buy it and you won't regret it. But if your on the fence like I was, go for an AK. There are tons of aftermarket stuff for them and you can make it into what you want.
Hope this helps :)
I went through the same delima as you did and I almost bought the Mini 30. But when it came down to it I went with an AK instead. Both guns are reliable and tough, but I though the AK trumped the minin in both these catagories. Also an AK will shoot just about anything. Mine gobbles up wolf and other surplus ammo with ZERO problems. I've also been able to use any mags I want in the thing and have had ZERO problems there. That was the main deal breaker for me for the Mini. No high cap quality mags.
Now all that being said, if your heart is set on it and you are getting a good price, buy it and you won't regret it. But if your on the fence like I was, go for an AK. There are tons of aftermarket stuff for them and you can make it into what you want.
Hope this helps :)
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the AK74 ammo is super cheap right now in respect to others. Even with prices out the roof you can still find quantity deals.
Oh yeah..........and i want one. ;D
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An AK is also an option but I want a GOOD one, the one's here look like an Afghan soldier cleaned parts of camels and such with it.
Yeah I know what you mean by that. ;D...When I got mine(AK) I bought from a local builder here in Mesa,Arizona. I paid a little more but got a rifle that was, I felt , a good build. I went the builder route because I did not know which of the many variants were good or bad. Also as he is a local guy, I was able to go to his shop and check things out.
I don't know much about the 74s. What I have read/seen on tv and heard about them were good. It was an update of the 47. So you got more accuracy, less recoil and when the bullet hit the target it would tumble, causing lots of internal damage. I think the military channel did a special on Russian Special Forces a while back. I think weaponology?? Anyways, it was a good show with info on both guns. You could probably find some clips on Youtube.
If you want info on the builder that I used and what I paid ect. PM me. I'll be happy to help. I would post that info here but don't know if that would be appropriate.
Please advise, I really respect the entire spectrum of this forum and as Lucas posted, I too, have been disappointed with other forums that want to get in a P****** contest over what an individual wants in a firearm.
Man you said it. This is pretty much the only forum I go on anymore. It seems that everyone here tries very hard to be polite and civil even when they disagree.
Again, hope it is of some help and by the way I still want a Mini 30 to call my own. ;)
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Tom
One option that solves the AK quality/condition concerns is to buy "new".Though it may be more than you're willing to spend.
http://www.cz-usa.com/news_events.php (http://www.cz-usa.com/news_events.php)
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I would tend to agree with the prior posts so far. I would take a good quality AK anytime over a mini-thirty. I even kinda like the mini-thirties I have shot. But, a good AK is just as accurate, tougher, easier to shoot all kinds of ammo, and more reliable in my opinion. For some, the mini-thirties can be a pain to clean and reassemble. lol an AK you don't even have to clean. But, some people really like mini-thirties and mini-fourteen's. And they are what they are, still a good value. It would sure beat the heck out of throwing rocks.. ya know.. ::) so if it was a good deal and I liked it.. I would get it. Get what makes you happy.
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I've heard a lot of very positive things about the Saiga made rifles,you might want to take a look at those.
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Remember, most AK's are imported as kits. Essentially shot out military rifles with the recievers destroyed and rebuilt as semiauto. My experience is that the new production rifles imported as sporters like the Saigas and hopefully the Chezk PAP's (puleezee EAA!) are much better shooters. Everyone needs both! Buy before our grossly deflated dollar raises the prices on these imports!
Addict
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I would never put down anything Ruger builds but the mini 30 is junk. I own 3 types of AK's and they work without fail. Siaga makes rifles in 223,7.62x39,and 7.62x51. These rifles will eat any thing you feed them and mags are available. If you want power and value get the .308 carbine my dad has one and its down right awesome.
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With ammo going up across the board, I have a chance to buy a new Ruger Mini 30 in 7.62.
Not familiar with this rifle, but ammo is cheaper than my .223 Sig 556, and considering the stainless and black polymer stock, Garand style action, is this a good rifle or are there other comparable choices?
Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Yeah, don't buy it. Get an AK. The acuracy is comparable, if not better and the mags are MUCH more available and cheaper. You can get a decent one for $400-$600 and parts and acessories far, far more available. Try Classic Arms they have a good rep on the Saiga board and I was an inch away from from buying a Century made GP 1975 AK (which is US made so no 922R BS) from them ( currently $519 with 4 mags and a case). They also have DPMS Sporticals for $699 if you want to go AR as I wound up doing. I spoke to the owner who assured me that their guarantee was simple. Don't like it, send it back and they'll send you a new one. Don't like that, send it back again and they'll replace it till its right, no repairs, a new rifle. You can't beat that. They also have Sterlings for $479 (I am tempted but broke and left handed). Seriously, don't mess with the Ruger. Its reliable if my mini-14 was comparable, but mediocre accuracy and hard to find and expensive mags. Get the same deal on an AK and save money on mags and parts. Check out the website and give them a call. I didn't complete a deal with them but they did impress me. It seemed to be a very no BS, what you see is what you get and if its not we'll make it right type of outfit, but I make no guarantees.
FQ13
PS Tom hates Century, BillT loves them. Me I don't know but was tempted to give them a whirl as they have a dimpled reciever (tighter mag fit) and are supposed to have gotten a WHOLE lot better in current new production. You can also pick up a new Wasser for less than $400 or a Saiga for a little better than $300. The Saigas can be modified to take AK mags if you put in some US parts to keep BATF happy and don't mind a little dremel work.
http://www.classicarms.us/
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Keep in mind mini-30's are horrible mutt's that dont know what caliber they really are. What I mean is Ruger thought it wise to put a .308" bore on what is supposed to be .310" per 7.62x39 caliber spec.'s. ALL other 7.62x39's in the world are correct .310". The only way you can put "proper" ammunition in a mini-30 is if you hand load it with .308" bullets.
I love Ruger, but ::) STUPID MOVE! Resulting in a "Stupid Mutt" of a gun.
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Get a Saiga in 5.45x39, they are in the US now, there is still very cheap ammo available online for it.
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Keep in mind mini-30's are horrible mutt's that dont know what caliber they really are. What I mean is Ruger thought it wise to put a .308" bore on what is supposed to be .310" per 7.62x39 caliber spec.'s. ALL other 7.62x39's in the world are correct .310". The only way you can put "proper" ammunition in a mini-30 is if you hand load it with .308" bullets.
I love Ruger, but ::) STUPID MOVE! Resulting in a "Stupid Mutt" of a gun.
Does the width of a hair, or less, really make that much difference?
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Frank, it's only 1/3 of a hair, on a dimension that has a tolerance of almost a hair and a half.
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You mean size doesn't matter? ;)
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Ruger Mini-30 is ideal for an around the house, defense gun. Not a tack driver, but at self defense ranges, who needs it? I have a Mini-14 and am very pleased with it. Not a match gun, but holds center mass at 100 yds. with iron sights.
About foreign ammo, I never recommend imported cheap ammo in any gun. Much military surplus has corrosive priming and other factors that can be harmful to your guns.
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From the Suarez Newsletter
Tom Cornelius - Suarez International Staff
If you read the rifle section on Warrior Talk, you notice that there is a pretty steady flow of questions concerning the Mini-14's usefulness and capabilities as a defensive or fighting rifle. There are close to a million Mini-14 rifles out there and my guess is they are selling pretty well as of late.
What it is.
The Ruger Mini-14 was first produced in the mid-70's with a blued finish, wood stock, and course peep sights. They have always been light, handy rifles that are easy to carry and shoot. Think scaled-down M-14 at 6lbs. You can find these rifles in gun safes, pickup trucks, the corner of a ranch workshop and in a person's home as a fighting rifle. A lot
has been said about the mini -14 being inaccurate or unreliable...I think these notions need to be put to rest.
The Mini-14 is not and will never be as accurate as a tier one AR-15 at longer ranges. However, when used at the distances were most fights take place accuracy is just fine. Think "minute of man" not "minute of angle." Almost all reliability issues with the Mini-14 can be traced to after market magazines. If you stick with Ruger factory 20-30rd magazines your Mini-14 is gonna run. Another feature these rifles have is very little sensitivity concerning what ammunition they are fed. I have shot everything from 40 grain soft points to 69 grain match , and plenty of steel cased ammo through a 580 Series rifle without a hitch.
The current generation of Mini-14 rifles are designated 580 Series. The differences from the Mini's of the past are: Factory flash hiders on rifles available to civilians, thicker barrels, front sights that are similar to M-14 front sights, rear sights that similar to the "ghost ring " concept and an ejector that is fixed. There are also some factory Mini-14's that can be had with a pistol grip and folding buttstock.
Attributes: Light
Reasonably reliable
Accurate enough for fighting
Not ammunition sensitive
BUT...
The Mini 14 does not have.
The ruggedness of an AK
The reliability of an AK
The availability of uncountable sources for magazines + spare parts
Most do not have a rugged pistol grip stock(firearms with a pistol grip are superior in a CQB fight.)
So Here's The Deal
Get an AK... But if that's not going to happen for whatever reason and you have a Mini-14, try this.
1. Use factory 20-30 round magazines.
2. Get a sling on your Mini (I like the MASH hook style from O.S.T.)
3 Have a method for keeping extra magazines with you. ( A rifle fighting bag is probably the best thing you could have for this duty)
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Where might one find decent, reliable 20 and 30 round mags for the mini 30? I dont think ruger markets civilian ones.
Thats the main thing that has kept me from searching one out.
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Where might one find decent, reliable 20 and 30 round mags for the mini 30? I dont think ruger markets civilian ones.
Thats the main thing that has kept me from searching one out.
Plus the fact you can get an AK for 2/3 the price with all the mags you want. I love Ruger and I like the Garand look of the mini, but its one rifle I will give a pass to, particularly in the 30. You can find mags for the 14, but the thirty is harder and more expensive. If you want a medium range, accurate enough, takes a licking and keeps on ticking carbine, why not go with the original?
FQ13
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I wish a company like Cproducts would make 20 and 30 round mags for the Mini 30.
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One more really interesting thing I just learned about the Mini-30, and Mini-14; I'd been looking around on other forums and saw where about a dozen people all said they were having very inconsistant shooting with these rifles and surplus ammo (high FTF rates). One guy posted a letter he'd written to Ruger with a reply along the lines of. "neither rifle was designed with the intent of using military primers". Half a dozen guys followed that with saying it was surplus ammo they had problems with, & their rounds did go off after a second firing... :-\
My SKS, AK, and LR-308 all make scary dents in the Federal primers I use to hand load, and any other commerial ammo I've tried just from chambering the round. After putting in a Murray's spring loaded firing pin in the SKS I've tested it to find it'll STILL dent the commercial primers pretty bad just from chambering them, but is now fine with military primers.
Keep this stuff in mind when you fire any military style semi-auto! I've never had an accident from it, but it's an issue I take VERY seriously!!!
Not saying these guns are unsafe! Just that if your using anything like them, try to keep in mind military firearms are designed to use military primers! And if you've got a mini, and a pile of surplus ammo... Maybe better to reserve them for killing paper at the range.
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Where might one find decent, reliable 20 and 30 round mags for the mini 30? I dont think ruger markets civilian ones.
Thats the main thing that has kept me from searching one out.
For the Mini 14 Ruger factory 20 and 30 round mags are readily avaiable, including from Ruger if they are not out of stock.
John Masen Co. makes 30 round magazines for the Mini14 and has made 20 rounders in the past. I have heard they are good magazines and are available from John Masen and Midway USA. They may even be on sale at Midaway.
Saw a really nice looking Mini 30 once that had been modified and had a M-14 front site with flash hider and bayonet lug on it. That is what Ruger shoud have done with the Minis. I thought I heard recently that a good Mini 30 magazine was coming out soon. I don't remember who was making it though, may have been Cproducts , or even Ruger.
http://www.johnmasen.com/index.html
http://www.midwayusa.com/
Lot's of good Ruger Mini talk, tips, and tricks here:
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86
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I have had mine for over 3 years, do not expect it to be a tack driver, they are not made for that; if your looking for something to knock down a deer, pig and plink all day, or something that is two legged, it's great for that. As to the cheap made overseas ammo, it shoots well enough for the plinking, I use it all the time for that without any problems, just make sure you do a good cleaning job when you finish. Use Federal, Hornady or other primum ammo for hunting or social work.