The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Mericet on December 18, 2011, 01:36:03 PM
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Finally I have some pictures uploaded of my recently acquired Ansley H. Fox SxS 12g shotgun. It was manufactured in 1920/21. It is not perfect but I do hope to learn a lot from it. So far, I have identified the following issues:
I will need a new stock and fore end wood. The original wood had been refinished and there is almost no checkering left. The wood also does not fit flush with metal surfaces.
One of the springs in the selectable trigger mechanism is missing.
One of the sears was repaired (poorly) and the second one is not functioning correctly. This might be due to the trigger mechanism not working correctly.
The barrels were cut down to 25". The cut is also not square.
The left barrel sounds like it is loose. Not bad yet, but it will have to be redone.
Still, got this for a really good deal.
On to the pictures:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-P5xQgFoxOFo/Tu43_NVlMBI/AAAAAAAAASk/28ytSV_txKY/s912/Fox.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vRVCLYyfK9s/Tu44IBz0uFI/AAAAAAAAAS0/M1kbOgJYyWE/s912/Stock%2525202.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zqSra5D6W_g/Tu44S35-BqI/AAAAAAAAATE/-wbzqYhz2TE/s912/Fore%252520end%2525202.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rkduFM9c1sk/Tu44i5kwBgI/AAAAAAAAATc/bq9Xh7041PQ/s912/Frame%2525201.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-U_LYPVculUY/Tu44uUoWHCI/AAAAAAAAAT4/kUjq1EkS_zg/s912/Frame%252520%2525203.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JAXCO-1XOeY/Tu44uWbqkvI/AAAAAAAAAT0/Y9Kt_ZIHHeY/s912/Frame%2525205.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CAX8NyjB5o4/Tu448soG7ZI/AAAAAAAAAUM/Ej2cMa3XGPk/s912/Trigger%252520assy%2525201.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bBww1I8wIJE/Tu45Gb6UdRI/AAAAAAAAAUk/3WT8Y4qgc3U/s912/Barrels.JPG)
A few more pictures here: https://picasaweb.google.com/110116751572522828873/Fox# (https://picasaweb.google.com/110116751572522828873/Fox#)
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I love old American box locks. Fox's are great (I'm a Parker man, but I wouldn't say no to a Fox0. Get yourself a copy of The Double Gun Journal. It has all sorts of ads fron folks who specialize in repairs and restorartion. Its well worth the price of an issue.
Good luck
FQ13
http://www.doublegunshop.com/doublegunjournal.htm
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I love old American box locks. Fox's are great (I'm a Parker man, but I wouldn't say no to a Fox0. Get yourself a copy of The Double Gun Journal. It has all sorts of ads fron folks who specialize in repairs and restorartion. Its well worth the price of an issue.
Good luck
FQ13
http://www.doublegunshop.com/doublegunjournal.htm
FQ, You do understand , don't you, that you are posting to a gun smithing student ?
I might add that he is a straight A gunsmithing student. ;D
Mericet, I don't know how far you've gotten on wood working but there are 3 types of checkering, American, has points, English, has no points but is deep, and French, which is what you have there. It does look like some of the lines could stand to be recut though.
Will you rework the current wood or replace it ?
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That looks like a great gun for a restore project!
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I'd just make it work and leave the rest be.
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FQ, You do understand , don't you, that you are posting to a gun smithing student ?
I might add that he is a straight A gunsmithing student. ;D
Mericet, I don't know how far you've gotten on wood working but there are 3 types of checkering, American, has points, English, has no points but is deep, and French, which is what you have there. It does look like some of the lines could stand to be recut though.
Will you rework the current wood or replace it ?
I get that, but he said he needed a stock. Unless he's minoring in whittling, it might be worth calling someone. ;) This is particularly true because if they were stored butt down, the oil has a tendency to leak into the stock and rot it. Its not just a question of recheckering, but restocking. That leads to issues of cast on or cast off and LOP etc. Its its own art. Besides that, these old guns used some archaic soldering to hold the barrels toghther. It never hurts to ask someone who's been been working on them for years. Besides, that's how you make contacts.
FQ13
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resoldering barrels is not that hard, its just alot of time. Some one with basic gun smithing skills should be able to do it np, I've done several. They are easy, just lots of time.
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I'd just make it work and leave the rest be.
X2.
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I'd just make it work and leave the rest be.
I'd agree with that if this wasn't a learning project. Can't learn much by letting it be.
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I'd agree with that if this wasn't a learning project. Can't learn much by letting it be.
Or by getting some one else to do the work, which FQ seems unable to grasp. ;D
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Or by getting some one else to do the work, which FQ seems unable to grasp. ;D
I just said to call and ask for advice. Its called learning and making contacts. Read before posting Tom. ;)
FQ13
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I just said to call and ask for advice. Its called learning and making contacts. Read before posting Tom. ;)
FQ13
What part of "HE'S GOING TO SCHOOL TO LEARN THIS STUFF AND THIS IS ONE OF HIS PROJECTS" can you not comprehend.
Dude, sometimes you are seriously dense.
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What part of "HE'S GOING TO SCHOOL TO LEARN THIS STUFF AND THIS IS ONE OF HIS PROJECTS" can you not comprehend.
Dude, sometimes you are seriously dense.
Tom, in my line of work, and I hope yours, you find a problem and research it. You go as far as you can on your own. Then you email or call the experts, the one's who wrote the articles that point you in the right direction. You spitball back and forth. All going well, you learn a lot more than you would have just reading their piece and going on your own. You swap ideas and hopefully make a contact. What's so hard to understand about this? Never be too proud to ask for advice. And frankly, most folks LIKE being asked, as long as you are asking intelligent and well informed questions. Everybody wins.
FQ13
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When I first read your last post my hair and beard bristled as I gasped out "Is that #@&*@ Liberal *&$!# that #$%^&* uncomprehending ? How does a @#$% idiot that*&^%$ numb, remember to breath"
Then it dawned on me you must be yanking my chain, no one who went to school, let alone taught in them until his presidential vote cost him his job, could possibly fail to comprehend the concept that schools that teach gunsmithing would have teachers who were, (can you guess what's coming ? ) Gunsmiths.
The guys who assigned Mericet the project in the first place, the guys, by the by , he is paying to teach him the trade, will probably be in a far better position to give him help and advice in person, rather than some anonymous voice over the phone who can't actually see what he is talking about on a given subject.
Imagine that ?
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Sometimes I wonder about you Tom. Let me put it in small words. I have full confidence in Mericet's teachers. I am in no way casting aspersions. They might be the Fox shotgun gurus for all I know, BUT.... When a student presents a good teacher with a problem they will do two things. First, tell the student what they know. Second, when dealing with a grad student or a professional student like Mericet, that good teacher will say "Here are a few other people who worked on this problem. Read their stuff and then contact them.". Its how knowledge is shared. Its why we have conferences and journals. We consult each other, we learn from each other. Its also how we build a community of folks working on the same problem. Drug law and the Constitution in my case, or restoring old shotguns in his case. The more competent people working on a problem and learning from each other, either by asking for advice or giving it the better. Introducing a student to professionals in the field who can help them down the road is part of the job. Better still if the student finds them on his own. It shows initiative. My grad school profs would often refuse to answer a question and give me a list of articles to read trusting that if I couldn't find the answers from the texts I would have the good sense to write the author. Why is this such a hard concept for you? I don't get it. ???
FQ13
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Never thought this would lead to such a heated discussion! :)
The project is mine and was not assigned by any teacher. We do have certain restrictions on our projects but for the most part it is fair game. Yes, first priority is to get this functioning. There is some initial responses on the Fox collector forum that indicates the checkering being correct. That being the case, I will research that before making a new stock. (I do have to do a 2 piece stock next semester though) Our senior instructor have already indicated that he will teach me how to resolder the barrels. I think my electronics background might be useful for that. ;) I might add that the senior instructor not only put me in touch with the seller, but also looked the shotgun over before I bought it.
At this time and unless I have access to a teacher and the equipment, I will do a re-barrel in a few years. It is expensive (~$2K) and not needed for me to do at this time. I am researching doing the rest of the work myself, unless I have the engraving re-cut which is again expensive and beyond my skills at this time.
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Sorry about that, ;D I get annoyed with FQ when he can't seem to grasp a simple concept like " learning this stuff is the whole point of paying for the course".
Since it is not an assigned project, I would wait on the engraving until you can do it yourself, if you are going to get into that aspect of things you have to do a "first" sometime and it would be better if it were your own rather than a customer's gun.
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I think it's beautiful, and I don't generally care for metal engraving.. Congrats on the find!!
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actually resolder the barrels is like plumbing, not electronics. Its really not hard, just a bunch of time.