The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: AE3007H1 on December 20, 2011, 07:16:14 PM
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I am looking into doing a few firearms with a DIY coating. I am leaning towards the Aluma-Hyde II for parts that are not necessarily metal and the Teflon/Moly for the metal parts.
Has anyone had any experience with these or any other DIY coatings? If so please, what is your take on the lot? Please let me know your experiences and any advice/tips you may have as well.
Thank you!
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Look into the Duracoat line of finishes from Lauer Custom Weaponry.
http://www.lauerweaponry.com/
I've heard nothing but good about them, and they are relatively easy to apply.
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yes, I too have heard many good reviews on it. I have also heard that the Brownell's Teflon/moly is good for areas that you might benefit from a self lubricating coating.
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yes, I too have heard many good reviews on it. I have also heard that the Brownell's Teflon/moly is good for areas that you might benefit from a self lubricating coating.
Duracoat SL is also self lubricating. I have no experience with aluma-hyde but have done many items myself with Duracoat and had even more done before I started doing my own. I regretted I waited so long to do my own work because it is really simple to get professional results.
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Since you guys brought it up, I'll ask this;
Is Duracoat better or more durable than Parakoat, the stuff that Para Ordnance uses on their firearms? Because, Parakoat SUCKS as a final surface coat!
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The problem is most all of this stuff is little more than high tech paint. Paint chips with rough handling. This is why I put off purchasing my CZ 75 until I found one in polished Stainless Steel. I've never seen one in high polish blue, which would have been acceptable. I didn't want one in Black Polycoat because it is little more than paint. Most of the CZ's I've seen that have had any kind of rough handling or holster wear with the Polycoat really deteriorated appearance wise.
It's much the same with a lot of these camo finishes. They look fantastic out of the box. But cleaning solvents, handling, holster wear, and just about everything else a gun comes into contact with will take their toll over time. They are just not as durable as a blued finish, or any of the commercial metal finishes like NP-3 from Robar. But for fixing up a sick looking AK, they do offer the home gunsmith a inexpensive solution, besides having to look at a ratty gun all the time. At least for a while.
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The problem is most all of this stuff is little more than high tech paint. Paint chips with rough handling. This is why I put off purchasing my CZ 75 until I found one in polished Stainless Steel. I've never seen one in high polish blue, which would have been acceptable. I didn't want one in Black Polycoat because it is little more than paint. Most of the CZ's I've seen that have had any kind of rough handling or holster wear with the Polycoat really deteriorated appearance wise.
It's much the same with a lot of these camo finishes. They look fantastic out of the box. But cleaning solvents, handling, holster wear, and just about everything else a gun comes into contact with will take their toll over time. They are just not as durable as a blued finish, or any of the commercial metal finishes like NP-3 from Robar. But for fixing up a sick looking AK, they do offer the home gunsmith a inexpensive solution, besides having to look at a ratty gun all the time. At least for a while.
That is true but I've had much better results with Duracoat compared to some of the factory finishes. I don't have any experience with the CZ polycoat but I think it's pretty similar to the stuff S&W uses. I know the "painted" finishes in the airlite J-frames is garbage, I've had it wear off of a couple revolvers without too much use. I've had Duracoat on a few pistols that has held up much better. WIth rough handling you can easily gouge or scratch it but it holds up much better to regular handling, and especially holster wear. When I use Duracoat I always add the matte/flattening agent to it and I've found it's less likely to show scratches but if it gets any surface scratches with this they can be buffed out pretty easily. I agree nothing is as good as NP-3 or even Glock's Tennifer finish but I really feel like Duracoat is well ahead of any other do it yourself finish and a lot of "professional" finishes. I can finish at least 10 pistols myself for what I'd pay to have one professional NP-3 finish done so it's really not a fair comparison.
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Thank you for the great info. Have any of you had any dealings with CERAKOTE? It seems like a more involved application process. Maybe yielding a tougher finish?
Then there is powder coating. It seems like this would be a viable option but one would have to take greater care to now coat the moving parts. I am not sure if there is a "self lubricating" type of thin powder coat that could be applied.
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Well, FWIW, several guys I know have tried both Duracoat and several of the Brownells coatings like Aluma-Hyde. They all said that either worked really well on "low-use" guns........for their heavily used and abused guns (one was just in from the 'sandbox') they just used Krylon. They said it was easy to touch up and cheap to boot. Krylon makes a paint specifically for plastic and it works well on fiberglass stocks too.
With regards to the coatings, I do know that the bake-on stuff is a little more durable than the regular....and, the regular Aluma-Hyde seems to cure better when heated slightly (a couple of halogen work lights a few feet apart works) fpr a few hours.
YMMV
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Well, FWIW, several guys I know have tried both Duracoat and several of the Brownells coatings like Aluma-Hyde. They all said that either worked really well on "low-use" guns........for their heavily used and abused guns (one was just in from the 'sandbox') they just used Krylon. They said it was easy to touch up and cheap to boot. Krylon makes a paint specifically for plastic and it works well on fiberglass stocks too.
With regards to the coatings, I do know that the bake-on stuff is a little more durable than the regular....and, the regular Aluma-Hyde seems to cure better when heated slightly (a couple of halogen work lights a few feet apart works) fpr a few hours.
YMMV
This is very true. If I Duracoat a piece that is all metal as soon as it's dry enough to handle I move it to the oven (I have an old toaster oven just for this type of stuff) 200 or so degrees for at least 2 hours and it's harder than just letting it cure naturally for 2 weeks. AS far as Cerakote I've had a professionally applied job on a rifle I traded for. I didn't keep it very long but it seemed to be as good as a Duracoat finish. I do believe it's harder to do though. The best way to get a good Duracoat job (or any finish I guess) is to make sure your metal is properly prepared. If I have something in nice shape I may just use the duracoat prep products and go but if the metal is rough or really any time I have the time to do it and a material that will hold up I like to prep in the blast cabinet and strip it down to bare metal. I also use the primer/basecoat if I strip it down in the cabinet. I did a knife about 3 years ago for a friend who's in Afganistan now (RAT4 - D2 steel that we took off the G10 grips and masked the edge then sprayed the whole thing with Duracoat Magpul FDE and put back together. He is on his 2nd deployment with it now and said it is finally showing a little wear. When he gets back home (April by the looks of things) we're going to strip it down and refinish it. I also sprayed the 6 M9 mags I sent him, inside and out with Duracoat SL. He said they're holding up great and he's not getting any spring binding issues like he use to. It's obviously not a permanent finish like something that makes an ionic bond with the metal but it's hard to beat for a DIY job that will last through some pretty decent abuse.
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Once you mix in the hardener into the Dura Coat, about how long do you have to work with it?
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This is very true. If I Duracoat a piece that is all metal as soon as it's dry enough to handle I move it to the oven (I have an old toaster oven just for this type of stuff) 200 or so degrees for at least 2 hours and it's harder than just letting it cure naturally for 2 weeks. AS far as Cerakote I've had a professionally applied job on a rifle I traded for. I didn't keep it very long but it seemed to be as good as a Duracoat finish. I do believe it's harder to do though. The best way to get a good Duracoat job (or any finish I guess) is to make sure your metal is properly prepared. If I have something in nice shape I may just use the duracoat prep products and go but if the metal is rough or really any time I have the time to do it and a material that will hold up I like to prep in the blast cabinet and strip it down to bare metal. I also use the primer/basecoat if I strip it down in the cabinet. I did a knife about 3 years ago for a friend who's in Afganistan now (RAT4 - D2 steel that we took off the G10 grips and masked the edge then sprayed the whole thing with Duracoat Magpul FDE and put back together. He is on his 2nd deployment with it now and said it is finally showing a little wear. When he gets back home (April by the looks of things) we're going to strip it down and refinish it. I also sprayed the 6 M9 mags I sent him, inside and out with Duracoat SL. He said they're holding up great and he's not getting any spring binding issues like he use to. It's obviously not a permanent finish like something that makes an ionic bond with the metal but it's hard to beat for a DIY job that will last through some pretty decent abuse.
That's the best advice, IMHO, regardless of what coating is used.
It's just like painting a car, boat, house, etc.... Surface prep and the pre-paint/coating work is actually more critical than the paint itself.
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While I have no personal experience with any coatings, I was interested in a few years ago and did some research. I never did follow through on getting done/doing it myself, but, from what I found them, Cerakote would have been my choice.
If you have not considered it, you should. You can start your search here...http://www.larsontactical.com/id23.html
If you want to consider something that is not DIY, think about Armoloy - http://www.armoloyofohio.com/
ARMOLOY technology has a refined process where its 99% chromium coating permeates the microscopic surface of metal surfaces creating 100% bonding characteristics that will not allow chipping, flaking or seperation from the basis metal. Consumer tests conclusively prove that surfaces treated with Armoloy deposits of .0001/.0002" per side are harder and have superior anti-friction, anti-corrosion and increased lubricity properties.
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Try engine block paint.
Worried about high temps? It's engine block paint.
Worried about "corrosive" cleaning chemicals? It's engine block paint.
Worried about hard use? It's engine block paint.
It comes in a variety of colors and finishes (flat, semi, and gloss), and at $4 to $6 a can at your local auto parts store, it's easy enough to get today and paint today.
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I run duracoat in my shop for sling hardware. Good stuff but it will chip/scratch even with the finest surface prep. Finishes will wear out, all of them. Some, like plating, take longer. Anything spray-on is going to wear. To stop wear, stop using/carrying the gun!
Now...here is the problem with some of the finishes. If it's an ultra hard two part finish, it will chip. If it's a soft one part/bake on, it will scratch (or when baked to super hard, become brittle and chip). There really is no happy medium when it comes to something that is applied atop metals.
Anyone who has seen my duty guns can attest to how finishes wear out and just how fast they can wear. I use krylon on my AR because I can touch it up as needed and realistically I just don't care how it looks, just how it functions.
Bakes on that I like: Duracoat works nicely, the Brownells labeled brand is nice too. (Wheeler gun coat was unsat on one of my guns FYI)
2 parts that I use and like: Duracoat ONLY.
Barring this, I like plating and other metal treatments that actually are part of the metal, not something atop it...
My two cents, 0.00000603003004050 after taxes
Andy
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Once you mix in the hardener into the Dura Coat, about how long do you have to work with it?
I've used it for a couple days, just using product up on small parts though. I've never tried any longer but had no issues pushing 48 hours.