The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on January 03, 2012, 03:43:11 PM
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You've got to love the Florida GOP. Most states, we actually have small government Republicans who believe in civil liberties and keep the law and order types in line. Not so much in the Sunshine State. Following in the footsteps of her predecessor Bill McCollum, who never found a police action he couldn't justify, our AG Pam Bondi is blazing a new trail. The case is Florida vs Jardine, and it is on the way to the SC.
In the case, the cops brought a drug sniffing dog to a guy's house. When it sat (according to the cops its indicator that there were drugs, or, if you're cynical, someone said "sit") they then got a warrant and popped the homeowner for growing weed. This has never been allowed before. Dog searches are permissible in cars and places like airports where the Court has ruled that there is a lowered expectation of privacy. But its never been used to justify entrance to a home. The idea that the cops can bring a dog to your door and if it sits down justify a search for drugs or guns, or for all we know internet porn and subversive literature pisses me off. The fact that a GOP AG, (supposedly the party of small government, remember) chose to appeal the Florida SCs wise decision to toss the search and potentially make this national policy makes it that much worse. WTF is wrong with these people? What part of small government and property rights does this woman fail to understand? AAARGH! Rant over.
FQ13
Here is the link
http://news.yahoo.com/decided-nose-court-ponders-drug-dogs-sniff-161604659.html
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Got to be more to it.
Why were the cops there with the dog in the first place ?
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Got to be more to it.
Why were the cops there with the dog in the first place ?
Because they were arrogant and lazy. The guy was guilty as hell, no question. its what I tell all my Con law classes. You will never see an SC case about civil liberties where the guy didn't do it. That's not the point. Its about the 4A. I mean c'mon, the guy wasn't going to flush 179 plants or smuggle them out in his sock. How hard would it have been to set up a little survellience and catch a buyer or supeana power bills or the like? They just got lazy, and now we might all have to deal with it because our AG won't let it go. >:(
FQ13
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They could just legalize all drugs, especially pot, and stop using the drug war as leverage against our civil rights....
Just sayin'....
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Are you 100% sure they didn't have CI's that gave them probable cause to bring the dog? It sure sounds like it from the article:
On the morning of Dec. 5, 2006, Miami-Dade police detectives and U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration agents set up surveillance outside a house south of the city after getting an anonymous tip that it might contain a marijuana grow operation. Bartelt arrived with Franky and the two went up to the house, where Franky quickly detected the odor of pot at the base of the front door and sat down as he was trained to do.
Pretty standard response. The dog was only part of the justification for the warrant. I doubt any judge, no matter how jaded and "open mided", woudl sign off on one just from the dog anyway.
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my exp with drug dogs in the coasties was they could smell it from several hundred feet away. They would then leed you too it.
Lets just say the cops are on the up and up, a k9 cop car parked out front, with the windows rolled down, the dog could smell it and would let you know something was not right. So unless there was cop that though they could get sneaky and make new law( or didn't care about the law) a police dog could have very easily found this, even if they were not taken to the door.
FWIW whats the diffrence between using dogs and drivig by with a infired camera? A judge had to sign the warent on grounds the dog said there was drugs there. The only way I see this guy getting off is if the warrent is bad or the cops were trying way to hard to nail this guy.
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my exp with drug dogs in the coasties was they could smell it from several hundred feet away. They would then leed you too it.
Lets just say the cops are on the up and up, a k9 cop car parked out front, with the windows rolled down, the dog could smell it and would let you know something was not right. So unless there was cop that though they could get sneaky and make new law( or didn't care about the law) a police dog could have very easily found this, even if they were not taken to the door.
FWIW whats the diffrence between using dogs and drivig by with a infired camera? A judge had to sign the warent on grounds the dog said there was drugs there. The only way I see this guy getting off is if the warrent is bad or the cops were trying way to hard to nail this guy.
The difference is that the SCOTUS has deemed this illegal. And a violation of the reasonable right to privacy in ones own home.
http://www.erowid.org/freedom/courts/supreme/supreme_case2_comment1.shtml
To summarize, the police cannot use and scanning devise to penetrate the interior of a home without a warrant. Using the dog as evidence to gain the warrant seems like it would fall under this decision. Even if it was applied to high tech devises. I see no difference here.
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Thirty seven years ago, give or take a few months, while I was on Naval Station Key West, the command ran a mutt through the barracks and it alerted on one particular room. An hour later, they emptied out the school and we all had to report to our rooms and stand at attention in front of our lockers. During locker search a single joint was located in a pack of smokes and the poor squid was whisked off to the brig, arraigned by the base SP's and sent back to his room later that night to wonder what fate awaited him!
He was allowed to finish his training and was put on a legal hold by the Command. Some months later, he was held to Summary Courts Martial and as luck would have it, he was acquitted of all charges, his record was expunged by the Base Command due to a direct violation of his 4th Amendment rights as granted by the United States Constitution! Even the military was held to the same standard as a civil court would have been.
He went on to receive several Naval Commendations, a Good Conduct Medal, Pistol Expert, kept a 3.8-3.9 evaluation average and was highly recommended for retention and advancement!
The rest is history!
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Thirty seven years ago, give or take a few months, while I was on Naval Station Key West, the command ran a mutt through the barracks and it alerted on one particular room. An hour later, they emptied out the school and we all had to report to our rooms and stand at attention in front of our lockers. During locker search a single joint was located in a pack of smokes and the poor squid was whisked off to the brig, arraigned by the base SP's and sent back to his room later that night to wonder what fate awaited him!
He was allowed to finish his training and was put on a legal hold by the Command. Some months later, he was held to Summary Courts Martial and as luck would have it, he was acquitted of all charges, his record was expunged by the Base Command due to a direct violation of his 4th Amendment rights as granted by the United States Constitution! Even the military was held to the same standard as a civil court would have been.
He went on to receive several Naval Commendations, a Good Conduct Medal, Pistol Expert, kept a 3.8-3.9 evaluation average and was highly recommended for retention and advancement!
The rest is history!
I find that intresting as part of the paper work you sign waves several of your rights, including your 5th amendments.
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Thirty seven years ago, give or take a few months, while I was on Naval Station Key West, the command ran a mutt through the barracks and it alerted on one particular room. An hour later, they emptied out the school and we all had to report to our rooms and stand at attention in front of our lockers. During locker search a single joint was located in a pack of smokes and the poor squid was whisked off to the brig, arraigned by the base SP's and sent back to his room later that night to wonder what fate awaited him!
He was allowed to finish his training and was put on a legal hold by the Command. Some months later, he was held to Summary Courts Martial and as luck would have it, he was acquitted of all charges, his record was expunged by the Base Command due to a direct violation of his 4th Amendment rights as granted by the United States Constitution! Even the military was held to the same standard as a civil court would have been.
He went on to receive several Naval Commendations, a Good Conduct Medal, Pistol Expert, kept a 3.8-3.9 evaluation average and was highly recommended for retention and advancement!
The rest is history!
Never happen now. ANY drug or DUI arrest and your career is effectively over. Captains' Mast in your record, forget it. YOu may be able to stay in but advancement will be impossible.
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Never happen now. ANY drug or DUI arrest and your career is effectively over. Captains' Mast in your record, forget it. YOu may be able to stay in but advancement will be impossible.
I find that intresting as part of the paper work you sign waves several of your rights, including your 5th amendments.
Remember guys, in 1975, even your urine and blood could not be used against you for drugs. That didn't happen until 1980. Your body fluids are nobodies business!
All of the above is absolute fact as it happened back in the day and TAB, I doubt the paper today even closely resembles the paperwork of the mid 70's...
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JNevins, back in those days 80+% of the entire armed forces were either using drugs or drinking more than was good for them.
Or both.
While I agree with the point Tyler made I have to say, based on what J originally posted, they had plenty of probable cause.
It may be a sh!tty deal, but it sounds like the cops played by the rules.
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Don't get me wrong I understand it was a different time. Hell, my Company Commander in Boot "survived" a DUI and still made Chief. But he also made sure it was perfectly clear that he was lucky and would never see Senior.
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Don't get me wrong I understand it was a different time. Hell, my Company Commander in Boot "survived" a DUI and still made Chief. But he also made sure it was perfectly clear that he was lucky and would never see Senior.
Dude, you don't understand. ;D
If you were only drunk you got an ass chewing and that was it, if it happened a couple time you got sent to D&A classes.
I never heard of any one getting in trouble for being under the influence of drugs and I saw a guy talk his way out of having an ounce of weed fall out of his pant leg during a company formation.
He didn't even get an Art. 15.
And for TAB, the dogs weren't worth a crap.
I will tell of one time they brought them through our barracks, afterward one of the guys was talking with the dog handler making of the dog, just BSing about the training, and dog stuff, (he had hunting dogs ) When the dog handler and every one had left he went over to his locker and dropped off the 4 ounces of pot he had in his cargo pockets.
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I have a few similar stories Tom! It was a completely different era in the Military then and senior enlisted and officers weren't innocent either. Overindulgence was something that was considered the norm! Our barracks in K. West and Iceland didn't have soda machines, they had beer machines at about 15 cents a can! We worked hard and partied harder...
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Sunday supper was hot pizza and cold beer in the barracks, Monday breakfast was cold pizza and warm beer in the barracks. ;D
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I don't know why but, the Marine contingent on my bases could not win a drinking contest!
The Navy always prevailed!!!! ;D
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There is also the first tour dumb ass factor even today. A young sailor does something stupid, but straightens up and flies right. Do you pitch him over the side for an unknown quantity and hope for better results, or assume lesson learned and we'll call it bygones? I don't know what current policy is, but I know which option seems like the smart idea to me.
FQ13
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There is also the first tour dumb ass factor even today. A young sailor does something stupid, but straightens up and flies right. Do you pitch him over the side for an unknown quantity and hope for better results, or assume lesson learned and we'll call it bygones? I don't know what current policy is, but I know which option seems like the smart idea to me.
FQ13
The Sailor in that story graduated second in his class two weeks after that bust and managed to remain squared away for the remainder of his hitch! He had several Chiefs that supported him and didn't want to see him railroaded out of the Navy! He was one lucky SOB!
In our day, making E-7 (Chief) meant you not only did your job well, but you didn't get caught either!
;)
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I had a former enlisted guy tell me one time that they used to put the crappy weed into the floor polish, get out the buffers and polish the floors. Then like a few days later the MP's would bring the dogs in and they would just go nuts because they could smell the weed in the floor but couldn't narrow it down to just one location.
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The Sailor in that story graduated second in his class two weeks after that bust and managed to remain squared away for the remainder of his hitch! He had several Chiefs that supported him and didn't want to see him railroaded out of the Navy! He was one lucky SOB!
In our day, making E-7 (Chief) meant you not only did your job well, but you didn't get caught either!
;)
And here I thought it was autobiographical. ;)
FQ13
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In Iceland, they had a real problem controlling the amount of hasheesh that was being brought onto the rock. The Icelandic police had paid buku kroner to get this new drug dog trained for drug smuggling. It was big news on the island, so big that one of the local drug kingpins put a hit on the dog and had it assassinated on the streets of Reykjavik to prove a point!
Little did they know the primary importers of dope were the Air Force boys bringing stuff over on the hops from Copenhagen and Amsterdam. It was big friggin business up there and lots cash was changing hands.
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And here I thought it was autobiographical. ;)
FQ13
I'm pleading the 5th there Professor!
Wanna see my Honorable Discharge?
;D
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I had a former enlisted guy tell me one time that they used to put the crappy weed into the floor polish, get out the buffers and polish the floors. Then like a few days later the MP's would bring the dogs in and they would just go nuts because they could smell the weed in the floor but couldn't narrow it down to just one location.
We did something similar in HS. They brought in MacGruff the crime dog to search the lockers. We got pissed. As student council veep (yeah, I got all the girls ::)) I decided that a stand needed to be taken. There were a bunch of empty lockers. The dogs treat for indicating was a tennis ball that got thrown to it when it found something. Heaven for a Lab. We put a little weed and crammed about 50 tennis balls that we "liberated" from the country club a friend worked at into each of the unclaimed lockers, maybe a dozen in all. Rin Tin Tin would bark, the locker would have the lock opened and the balls (rubbed with bong water) would bounce out causing the dog to go nuts. Oddly, the principal didn't see the humor. However, being newspaper editor and photographer (did I mention I was a chick magnet? ;D), I did get a great shot of him being knocked backward by a Lab lunging for a falling tennis ball on the front page of the North Shore HS "Stampede" entitled "Victory in the Drug War". Oddly enough, the dumb SOB never even questioned me and my friends, after all, we were the "good kids". ::) ;D ;D
FQ13
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To the thought of Florida and Cops, I lived ther in the 80s, from Tampa to G'ville at one time or another..
In Gainesville, in the summer, the ratio of Cops to residents was one for 30.. There were at least five Depts there if you count Campus PD..
LE still tends to get carried away with itself sometimes down there, from what I understand..
I got pulled over by Alachua County one time at about 02:15 one morning. I and the Cops were the only cars on the road.. I asked the Cop if I was "driving bad". He said no, but that it was suspicious for me to be out at that time of night.. I supressed the urge to suggest that it was closing time at the bars.. I wasn't drinking.. I was on mushrooms at the time so there wasn't much to take me to jail on.. Just dilated pupils and spinal fluid.. I did more sobriety tests than I'd ever heard of that night, and there were 4 cars worth of frisky, bored bubbas waiting for me to do something stupid.. I had a good time.. One guy tossed a handful of change on the ground and had me cross one leg over the other, squat, and pick it up... Like I said, I was tripping.. I didn't have a problem with the "tests".. I was a pretty jovial sort anyway back then.. It was just interesting is all.. It took about 45 minutes and they gave up and left..
Today, my back is so twisted up that I couldn't walk a straight line of my life depended on it.. Ah, the joys of youth..
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I had a former enlisted guy tell me one time that they used to put the crappy weed into the floor polish, get out the buffers and polish the floors. Then like a few days later the MP's would bring the dogs in and they would just go nuts because they could smell the weed in the floor but couldn't narrow it down to just one location.
I find it hard to believe as we were to poor to waste. But I'm still ROFLMAO ;D
In Iceland, they had a real problem controlling the amount of hasheesh that was being brought onto the rock. The Icelandic police had paid buku kroner to get this new drug dog trained for drug smuggling. It was big news on the island, so big that one of the local drug kingpins put a hit on the dog and had it assassinated on the streets of Reykjavik to prove a point!
Little did they know the primary importers of dope were the Air Force boys bringing stuff over on the hops from Copenhagen and Amsterdam. It was big friggin business up there and lots cash was changing hands.
It was the same with us.
All the Panama Red that came to Camp Lejune came by way of Snow Hill AFB .