The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: twyacht on January 10, 2012, 07:43:08 PM
-
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/daniel-zimmerman/gingrich-hits-romney-on-gun-tax-increase/#more-94127
Gingrich Hits Romney on Gun Tax Increase
Posted on January 10, 2012 by Dan Zimmerman
Continuing his full frontal assault on Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich (looking thoroughly befuddled by that thing he’s holding, above) lit into the a-little-too-perfectly coiffed former Massachusetts governor for raising taxes on guns by 400% when he was the Bay State executive. Sticklers for the truth that they are, guardian.co.uk points out that, “the ‘tax’ Gingrich refers to was in fact a fee on gun licenses that Romney raised in 2003 as part of his administration’s effort that year to scour the tax code for loopholes it could close and fees it could hike to close a budget deficit.” Thanks for that distinction without a difference. Tax or fee, the dollars still come out of gun owners’ pockets every time they buy a new boomstick or renew an existing license. And as we learned in Econ 101, that which is taxed is discouraged. . .
Imagine that – a Massachusetts governor raising taxes. Say it ain’t so, Joe. That’s almost as newsworthy as a politician lying. But the next primary’s coming up fast and Gingrich sees an opportunity.
“He raised taxes on owning a gun, a topic we will talk about a great deal in South Carolina, where they think registering a gun and having it taxed by the government is not a very clever idea,” Gingrich said yesterday in Manchester, N.H.
Meanwhile, Romney’s trying to be just as pedantic as the Guardian.
Romney has long argued that fees are not taxes because they are charged for specific services. But others, including gun owners in Massachusetts – who number about 200,000 – have rejected that distinction.
“It’s a tax on our rights. Period,” (executive director of the Gun Owners Action League, James) Wallace said today.
Good luck making that case, Mitt.
-
I'm not defending Romney but what tax would they be referring to? Newt was wrong the other day about a $100.00 per gun fee that DOES NOT EXIST!
I pay sales tax on guns, nothing more! My prices on guns are no different than guns I've seen in other states surrounding MA!
Oh, and by the way, there are nearly 800K gun owners in MA!
-
The “tax” Gingrich refers to was in fact a fee on gun licenses that Romney raised in 2003 as part of his administration’s effort that year to scour the tax code for loopholes it could close and fees it could hike to close a budget deficit.
Romney initially proposed raising the fee for a gun license from $25 to $75, but the Legislature bumped it to $100, and Romney signed that increase into law, according to James Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners Action League, a Massachusetts gun rights group.
The following year, Romney worked with the Legislature to increase the duration of a gun license from four to six years, which had the effect of mitigating the higher gun license fee. So a gun license that used to cost $25 for 4 years ($6.25 per year) became $100 for 6 years ($16.66 per year).
All told, Romney raised fees by about $375 million and closed tax loopholes that raised another $375 million in revenue, according to Michael J. Widmer, president of the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, a nonpartisan, business-backed budget watchdog group.
*****
It's an election year,.....and have posted Romney's adherence to the "reasonable" gun laws in Mass... :P
The Romney Campaign Flag...
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/windsock.jpg)
-
Thanks and I am a member of the Gun Owners Action League of Massachusetts! Considering what we were faced with from the State Legislature, I'll gladly pay the 100 bucks...
Again, not a big Romney supporter but he was a damn sight better than our current asshat and far better than the two Republican asshats that were there before he came into office. I don't know which one was worse, Weld or Cellucci...
-
Considering what we were faced with from the State Legislature, I'll gladly pay the 100 bucks...
But I won't.. It's the same as a Poll Tax.. You have a Constitutionally guranteed 2A/RKBA just as much as a right to vote. Neither are appropriately subject to a fee to exercise said right..
I'm glad he was better than the other guy, but that ain't good enough for me.... I'm not settling on this one..
If SC, or even Florida decides that an extra C-note, in principle, to keep the gun is a good idea, then we really have lost the Republic..
IMO..
-
Agreed Santa. I have zero problem paying a few bucks (I think its $5 in Fl.) to do the instant check. Its a fee for service. After all, someone has to man the phones and they want a paycheck. Likewise, my CCW fee, while annoying, is no more an imposition than a fishing licence. Its irritating, but its something I can live with if I have to to carry. But if you start charging me money just to own a gun, and require me to register it with you, and think that's a reasonable thing? Sorry, we have parted company.
FQ13
-
Thanks and I am a member of the Gun Owners Action League of Massachusetts! Considering what we were faced with from the State Legislature, I'll gladly pay the 100 bucks...
.......
You pay to buy a gun or to have a NICS check? Amazing.
In OK and LA we pay a tax on guns, a sales tax. Is that what you are talking about?
-
All told, Romney raised fees by about $375 million and closed tax loopholes that raised another $375 million in revenue, according to Michael J. Widmer, president of the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, a nonpartisan, business-backed budget watchdog group.
Notice that nothing was said about actually, ya know, cutting costs or not spending the money in the first place?
Mitt? No thanks.
-
Not a fan of Romney and not taking up for him. I'm just trying to make sense of this thread. I'm basing my response off of Tim and TW's posts.
Many of you seem to think that there is a separate, extra $100 payed as a tax or some other form of payment to purchase or own a gun. What I got out of this is that the cost of the pistol permit was raised to $100 and then subsequently extended to six years to help make up for the extra cost. The price went up a little, but, at $16.66 a year, they pay $1.66 more a year than I do.
-
You pay to buy a gun or to have a NICS check? Amazing.
In OK and LA we pay a tax on guns, a sales tax. Is that what you are talking about?
No fee to buy a gun. The only fee is your CCW license of 100 bucks for 6 years. No fee to run an NICS check either. People we need to keep the facts straight here. Massachusetts, with the exception of the registration part of the equation, ain't much different than anywhere else. In fact, it's still better than MD, NY, NJ, IL, WI and CA!
Edited per request!
;)
-
Not a fan of Romney and not taking up for him. I'm just trying to make sense of this thread. I'm basing my response off of Tim and TW's posts.
Many of you seem to think that there is a separate, extra $100 payed as a tax or some other form of payment to purchase or own a gun. What I got out of this is that the cost of the pistol permit was raised to $100 and then subsequently extended to six years to help make up for the extra cost. The price went up a little, but, at $16.66 a year, they pay $1.66 more a year than I do.
Correct!
CT is 100 bucks for four (4) years! With some other restrictions that we don't have here!
-
No fee to buy a gun. The only fee is your CCW license of 100 bucks for 6 years. No fee to run an NICS check either. People we need to keep the facts straight here. Massachusetts, with the exception of the registration part of the equation, ain't much different than anywhere else. In fact, it's still better than MD, NY, NJ, IL, WI and CA!
How difficult is it to get CCW license in MA? I'm gathering by your post that you don't need any kind of firearms owner card like some other states (NJ?), but you do have to register your purchase with the state? Is that true for handguns and long guns? One more question: If she weighs the same as duck, she's made of wood, and therefore...?
-
How difficult is it to get CCW license in MA? I'm gathering by your post that you don't need any kind of firearms owner card like some other states (NJ?), but you do have to register your purchase with the state? Is that true for handguns and long guns? One more question: If she weighs the same as duck, she's made of wood, and therefore...?
The minimum requirements are a four hour safety course that does not require live fire. An NRA Basic Pistol would qualify but is NOT required. You then get the paperwork from your local PD and pay the 100 bucks, take fingerprints and photo. They have 40 days to approve or give you reason for denial. If denied, you have a state arbitration board you can fight through. The approval is at the discretion of your local PD but denial is regulated by the state. It's my understanding that at least 40 bucks stays with the local PD.
After that you can buy what ever is on the roster with no waiting period. Just the basic NICS and paperwork for sale. Private sale is allowed as long as the guns are on the roster. Registration is required for all handguns and long guns with the exception of antique firearms of the muzzleloading variety.
There are three basic licenses.
FID - Firearms ID for 18-21 years old for long guns for hunting purposes.
LTC-B - Handgun/rifle without hi-capacity magazines but no concealed carry. Max 5 round DETACHABLE magazines.
LTC-A - Handgun or rifle with hi-capacity magazines WITH concealed handgun carry for all lawful purposes. Max 10 round DETACHABLE magazines or greater if the magazine was manufactured prior to 1994.
I carry a Sig P228 with 13 round mags on loan from my daughter.
My local PD will not issue a LTC-B because of the restrictions. He will automatically upgrade it to a LTC-A.
Mine took about 10 days total after applying!
-
Still really glad I live in PA!
-
Still got a problem with that whole "register" verbage....Either way,.give a Political body a chance to raise the "cost" of something, and they will...
Beatles "taxman" song comes to mind....
-
Still got a problem with that whole "register" verbage....Either way,.give a Political body a chance to raise the "cost" of something, and they will...
I don't like either but it's the law for worse or for worse! I've done a lot of research on how and why we got to where we are today! It was not all Willards doing! The State House is 90% socialist and the 10% that are considered GOP are weak kneed dimwits. Look at Scott Brown!
I've spoken with the folks at the Bureau and they're decent folks. When I moved back after moving to CT, I called them and explained that my LTC was still valid for two more years and wondered if I had to go back through all the crap again? The Bureau folks told me to do my change of address paperwork and they would honor the license after I regained my residency status!
Done deal! How many other states is that allowed?
I honestly don't believe that with the NICS there isn't a list of handgun registrations somewhere from every state in the Union! Do you actually believe what the Gubmint says anymore?
My tinfoil hat is here somewhere!
-
Just one nitpick, please take WI out of your list of "better than" states, now that we can finally get CCW the only significant thing you had better than us is off the table.
Training Requirement- no more severe than yours NRA Basic or Hunter's Safety does the job.
$50 for 5 years still beats $100 for 6
Local PD isn't involved so the local demogogue can't add his/her slant to the process
No fingerprints/no photos
No "approved" roster of firearms
No registration of firearms(beyond FFL/NICS requirement)
-
NH, just across the State line from Ma, much lower crime.
Requirements for purchase - Money.
Requirements for CCW - One page form,3 references, up to 14 day wait , $10 for 4 years.
Restrictions - Federal only.
-
Just one nitpick, please take WI out of your list of "better than" states, now that we can finally get CCW the only significant thing you had better than us is off the table.
Training Requirement- no more severe than yours NRA Basic or Hunter's Safety does the job.
$50 for 5 years still beats $100 for 6
Local PD isn't involved so the local demogogue can't add his/her slant to the process
No fingerprints/no photos
No "approved" roster of firearms
No registration of firearms(beyond FFL/NICS requirement)
Corrected! Thanks for the reminder! My Scandinavian relatives there will forgive me!
;)
I will add that CT has become a royal pain in the butt to crawl through the process and some of their "assault" weapons restrictions are actually worse than current MA law. Even shotguns have some rather ridiculous sanctions.
-
Considering what we were faced with from the State Legislature, I'll gladly pay the 100 bucks...
How much are you willing to gladly pay to speak freely?.....vote?.....have legal counsel at your criminal trial?.....
Any governor who would willingly support charging a fee in order to "permit" you to practice a Constitutionally-guaranteed right is not someone I want to see in the Oval Office....and I put Perry in this same category.....
-
How much are you willing to gladly pay to speak freely?.....vote?.....have legal counsel at your criminal trial?.....
Any governor who would willingly support charging a fee in order to "permit" you to practice a Constitutionally-guaranteed right is not someone I want to see in the Oval Office....and I put Perry in this same category.....
I'm not defending what Willard did here but don't most, if not all states charge a fee for a CCW permit excluding AK, VT and AZ?
MA is 100 bucks, CT is about 170 bucks when you take into account all the money spent to gain a license! At this point, those are the two states I'm familiar with. NH charged me 20 bucks for my non-resident which will be 100 bucks the next time. ME charged me 60 bucks plus the cost of passport photos..
Fees, taxes, etc...it's all the same thing
And...I'm against infringement on ALL of my rights! You do what's required and live to fight another day. If MA residents want that to change, there are ways to make that happen.
For the immediate future, for my family, it's better that I stay where I am for the moment. When and if things change for me, I'll consider making a change but it won't be because of my ability to protect my family. I'd do that with whatever means necessary!
-
How much are you willing to gladly pay to speak freely?.....vote?.....have legal counsel at your criminal trial?.....
Any governor who would willingly support charging a fee in order to "permit" you to practice a Constitutionally-guaranteed right is not someone I want to see in the Oval Office....and I put Perry in this same category.....
What did Perry do? I'm sure I'm missing alot along the way but I didn't catch anything on the 2A edition of a Poll Tax from him.. What'd I miss?
-
How much are you willing to gladly pay to speak freely?.....vote?.....have legal counsel at your criminal trial?.....
Any governor who would willingly support charging a fee in order to "permit" you to practice a Constitutionally-guaranteed right is not someone I want to see in the Oval Office....and I put Perry in this same category.....
Agreed on the first point. The South used poll taxes and tests to prevent Blacks from voting. This is a short run to limiting CCW too.
As for the "governor", remember, the legislature is to blame for a lot, probably most of what MA is like. I'm sure Speaker Bolger disarmed the populace all he could so his brother Whitey and his crew didn't have to worry about facing armed citizens while Whitey plied his trade.
I mentioned MB's blog post yesterday. Today, he has another from someone who lived in MA while the craziness was going on under Romney, and what Romney helped do against the Legis. to mitigate the damage one state rep tried to do. Go read up on it and then let's talk.
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2012/01/mitt-romney-guns.html (http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2012/01/mitt-romney-guns.html)
-
BTW, when all of the pissing and moaning is done over whoever the (R) candidate is, just remember . . . .
From today's MB Blog (http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2012/01/great-read.html (http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2012/01/great-read.html)):
The election of 2012 ain't a conservative popularity contest. It's a war to, first, last, and always, destroy any possibility of a second term for Barack Hussain Obama.
-
What did Perry do? I'm sure I'm missing alot along the way but I didn't catch anything on the 2A edition of a Poll Tax from him.. What'd I miss?
Look at what his stance was during the debate over parking-lot carry and campus carry.....for someone who was pro-2A, he was awfully quiet.....as well as never pushing for any pro-2A legislation publically....and Texas CHL's are still among the most expensive in the nation....
From today's MB Blog (http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2012/01/great-read.html):
The election of 2012 ain't a conservative popularity contest. It's a war to, first, last, and always, destroy any possibility of a second term for Barack Hussain Obama.
.....and if that involves living through a (likely) eight years of a liberal, Obama-Lite with an "R" next to his name, that makes it better HOW?.....
-
Look at what his stance was during the debate over parking-lot carry and campus carry.....for someone who was pro-2A, he was awfully quiet.....as well as never pushing for any pro-2A legislation publically....and Texas CHL's are still among the most expensive in the nation....
.....and if that involves living through a (likely) eight years of a liberal, Obama-Lite with an "R" next to his name, that makes it better HOW?.....
Because he isn't BO.
-
Because he isn't BO.
+10 That point seems to get swept to the wayside sometimes.
While there are no guarantees on a Repubs choice for the Supremes, 2 more Kagans or Sotomeyers and we are well and truly fucked.
-
+10 That point seems to get swept to the wayside sometimes.
While there are no guarantees on a Repubs choice for the Supremes, 2 more Kagans or Sotomeyers and we are well and truly fucked.
And two more Souters or Stevens are better HOW?.....
-
And two more Souters or Stevens are better HOW?.....
Well, you're wrong about that.. From a political point of view, Romney has the same problem McCain had. You can't fight a guy when he's the head of "your" party..
Court appointments would be the ONLY thing that could make me swallow and pull the lever for Romney.. Still, though, how could one expect any better than maybe a (Kenyan law is as good as ours/Jack Benny) Breyer..
-
And two more Souters or Stevens are better HOW?.....
Like I said, there are no guarantees.
I am certain that BWhore won't nominate anything near a Roberts, Scalia or Thomas.
-
Like I said, there are no guarantees.
I am certain that BWhore won't nominate anything near a Roberts, Scalia or Thomas.
Neither would Romney....
....if there's any reason to vote for a candidate like Paul, it would be the chance that he'd nominate a couple of like-minded individuals to SCOTUS.....