The Down Range Forum
Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => The Best Defense on My Outdoor TV => Topic started by: Mullannix930 on January 20, 2012, 01:24:01 AM
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ThE segment Mike did on the AR in home defense was great. I was wondering what ammo he recommends for .223 home defense use. I've heard the light V-max type ammo break up fast, decreasing over penetration in walls.
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I've been very impressed with Hornady's TAP ammo. I use it for all of my SD rounds now. YMMV
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Not sure what he uses? I also use Hornady TAP in my AR-15.
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Bane seems to swear by TAP as well.
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I figured that. The only prob with TAP is the price. I know they use V-max bullets in them so I am doing some tests with some other brands that use the same weight v-max bullet. I Am going to test through drywall and some other common home construction materials to see how they stack up to TAP. I can get the other brands (still good ammo) for much less than the TAP. I know that it's the cost to protect my family and I have no problem with the cost for that. I spend the money for my ammo for my handgun with no problem. I am looking at, if I get the same or similar result with brand x as with TAP then why spend the extra on ammo just for the name. I used to use Black Hills with the Speer Gold Dot in my .45, cheaper but the same performance as the Speer ammo. Plus I am looking to have ammo that is cheaper to test to match reloads with for practice (not reloads for defense, I don't want to fight that court battle).
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Some of the most comprehensive and exhaustive research on AR ammo. Bullet weight, barrel length, and twist rate.
Not ALL TAP ammo is the same....
http://forums.second-amendment.org/index.php?topic=3708.0
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Several friends have given good reports on Cor-Bon ammo loaded with 55gr Sierra BlitzKing bullets.
http://www.shopcorbon.com/Self-Defense-JHP/223-Rem-55gr-CORBON-Self-Defense-BlitzKing/SD22355BK-20/100/Product
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according to the report that Mas gave about the incident where the cops had to put down all of those exotic animals, they used mainly TAP and had great things to say about its performance.
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Loads To Avoid
Anything loaded with a varmint bullet; all varmint bullets in this caliber will underpenetrate from all guns. This means NO VMax bullets (including TAP loads), NO Nosler/Combined Technologies "Ballistic Tip" bullets, and so on. Varmint bullets were designed for animals no larger than 60 lbs., with the lighter bullets being designed for even smaller animals. They are NOT combat bullets, regardless of marketing to the contrary.
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with that being said, on am why Hornady chose the bullet that they did for their TAP rounds. unless that bullet is a little different than the normal A-max and V-Max.
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4) Throw away your Fed. Tactical Bonded ammo, it is a poor choice for the overpenetration scenario and is pathetic when shooting through glass. It is a 'Classic Marketing Lie'.
5) Purchase 40 grain TAP (.223) for CQB work. It is a Polymer tipped spitzer boat tail, part #83256, ballistic coefficient =.200: This bullet offers high velocity even in shorter barreled weapons with reliable functioning in the AR15 weapon system. It also offers rapid expansion, high fragmentation and little retained weight. This round is intended primarily for situations where its' limited penetration, extreme fragmentation and reduced ricochet potential are desired.
6) Purchase 75 grain TAP (.223) for outdoor, vehicles and everything but CQB work. It is a boat tail hollow point, part #80265, ballistic coefficient =.390: This match quality bullet is the Hornady company's heaviest TAP offering in .223 caliber. It demonstrates rapid expansion and a fragmenting bullet for both the precision rifle and the carbine. This bullet demonstrates deeper penetration than the 55 and 60 grain bullets yet penetrates less than most police handgun service rounds. It penetrates glass with minimal deflection, due to it's retained weight. The bullet shows minimal break up on sheetrock, retaining most it's weight and penetration.
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For what's affectionately called a "poodle shooter",.....use the best you can, research the ballistics,.....but first and foremost,....
HIT YOUR TARGET....
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Thanks for sharing that info TWyacht. I honestly did not know there were two separate grain amounts of Hornady TAP. I have the 75 grain for home defense.
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The 40 grn is what I am looking at. I have some other brand that uses the 40 v-max that I amgoing to test side by side with the 40 grn TAP.
As to the issue of penetration... I don't want a round that will penetrate too much. This is for in my home and I want to limit the risk of over penetration of walls. If I was outside I would use the heavier stuff, but I want fragmentation to keep the unwanted damage kept to a minimum. And if I am unable to stop them with the penetration of the first round... that's why I have and plan on a multiple round engagement.
Besides, my .45 will blast through more walls than my .223 hands down.
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Any thoughts to twist rate using the lighter projectiles?
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I'm running a 1:9 with great results in the 36grn and up to the low 70's. I have heard several say that they are able to go as low as 40grn in a 1:7. I have also heard that the 40's will blow apart with that fast a twist. It's just a try and see for each rifle.
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Yes, it was my understanding that the faster twists would spin the lighter rounds apart. I have not bothered reloading anything lighter than 55gr due to my 1:8 barrel. I will have to try some lighter loads to see how it does. Are you reloading or using factory ammo? In either case, what projectile & speed are you loading to or what factory ammo are you using? I ask because I am sure that the actual bullet brand, type, & shape could have a lot to do with the bullet surviving a fast spin.
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I use speer and hornady. Hornady is my main load, but i'm not sure on the VEL at this time. I have had good luck with the 40grn vmax in both hornady and the Fiocchi factory loads, but they may be a little light for a 1:8. The 40-50 grn may do good in yours but you would have to test them. I got the Fiocchi 40grn V-max for about $20 for a box of 50. After I chrono them I will work up some loads to use for range time. The only trick is finding the time to shoot.
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Presently using TAP 55-gr in "house gun," Spike's Tactical w/ Aimpoint.
Am at GUNSITE this week with a ton of ballistic gel...will be running those TAP through the jello for SG!
mb
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Any word on getting some of the new M855A1 enhanced NATO rounds? I would buy the ammo or preferably just the bullets for reloading. They say that those are supposed to even the field with the 7. 62 ruskey. ... not sure I buy that.. ...
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Will be looking forward to the SG episode with the TAP and gel.