The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: combat clarence on January 23, 2012, 06:40:06 PM
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i was wondering if i should have a round chambered and or should i have safety on or off while carrying? i am sure there are several opinions any help will do. thank you.
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Carry with a round in the chamber and safety ON.
That's why it is there.
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It is my personal belief that a carry gun should definitely have a round in the chamber. To me, chambering a round while the threat is present only increases reaction time, increases steps you need to take to address the threat, and increases the things that could go wrong. I see no advantage to carrying what, to me, is essentially an unloaded gun.
As to the safety, I think that has a lot to do with how much practice and muscle memory you create in swiping it off, the type of firearm you carry, and your mode of carry. However, I'll let folks who carry guns with safeties provide more details and experienced input. Personally, I'm a fan of keeping the steps to engage the threat at a bare minimum. I'm a fan of simple and effecient; for that reason, I carry a pistol with no external safety to disengage. My Glock (insert any similar pistol and all revolvers that I can think of) is draw, aim, shoot with no extra steps. Other opinions may vary.
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Definitely want one chambered. Regardless of how quick you think you are it just takes too much time to chamber a round - assuming that you have both hands available to do that, which you may not.
If your gun has a safety use it and train with it until sweeping it off is just part of the drawing motion. Panicking and forgetting to take the safety off is a very real concern if it requires thought and is not ingrained into your "muscle memory."
Practice, practice, practice. ;)
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I carry a 1911 as do TomBogan and Ichiban.
I carry cocked and locked which is Condition 1, chambered round, full magazine and the thumb safety engaged to safe the firearm. It's what I'm comfortable with! In my mind, any gun that is supplied with a thumb type safety is designed for it to be used at all times.
DA/SA pistols will generally have a decocker with a device to keep the hammer from contacting the firing pin like the Beretta, Sig Sauer and others. DAO like the Glock have no external safety. In all cases, it serves no purpose to keep the chamber empty as others have explained.
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Did you catch the show on the Tueller Drill?
It demonstrated that with an attacker starting from 21 feet, you would need to be very quick to draw and get off any effective shots before he was upon you without moving significantly and then just being able to get the job done. If you had to rack the slide to be ready to fire in addition to all of that, you chances go way down.
And that was from 21 feet. You will be very lucky to have that much distance between you and your attacker when you perceive the threat.
Keep a round in the chamber for sure.
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Definitely want one chambered. Regardless of how quick you think you are it just takes too much time to chamber a round - assuming that you have both hands available to do that, which you may not.
If your gun has a safety use it and train with it until sweeping it off is just part of the drawing motion. Panicking and forgetting to take the safety off is a very real concern if it requires thought and is not ingrained into your "muscle memory."
Practice, practice, practice. ;)
Yes. Modern firearms are perfectly safe with a round chambered. They have built in safeguards against going off "accidentally".
Should you have your safety on or off? Depends on the gun. Slide mounted on DA/SA safeties? Off IMO. Frame mounted safeties?
Optional but train hard with whatever you decide to use. And of course, some guns don't have manual safeties.
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Absolutely carry one in the chamber. If your gun has an external safety then I strongly suggest keeping it on safe while carrying and putting it on fire when drawing. Carrying a gun without one in the chamber is a really bad idea. It is handicapping yourself severely in a life and death situation. It would be kind of like buying a Dodge Challenger with the 10 cylinder and racing it without taking it out of first gear, only you don't lose your pink slip, you lose your life.
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Have one in the pipe, or get a revolver....Utilize all safeties and features of said firearm. Regardless of model.
The BG's are cocked and locked,.....so should you...
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Should you have your safety on or off? Depends on the gun.
This. ^^^
My Glock has no external safeties to disengage, neither do my Sigs. (or revos) By carrying my (series 80) 1911s cocked and locked I get to use all 3 safeties.
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Safeties? SAFETIES?
We don't need no stinkin' safeties!
Of all my center-fire handguns only my Series 70 and a very old S&W .32 revolver have any manual safety.
I won't carry a gun with a safety. I don't care how much practice I do, too many things can go wrong.
CHAMBERED? That's the wrong question. The question is: Besides cleaning and dry fire practice is your gun ever unloaded?
Remember Cooper's #1 COMMAND: All guns are ALWAYS loaded.
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Just to make sure the point isn't missed:
Cocked and locked! An unloaded gun is nothing but an expensive rock. Put in a magazine, rack one into the chamber, put the safety on, remove the magazine and top it off, put the magazine back in the gun, and holster. You are now ready to go to church ;D
I have carried a government 1911 for over five years. Always cocked and locked!
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Just to make sure the point isn't missed:
Cocked and locked! An unloaded gun is nothing but an expensive rock. Put in a magazine, rack one into the chamber, put the safety on, remove the magazine and top it off, put the magazine back in the gun, and holster. You are now ready to go to church ;D
I have carried a government 1911 for over five years. Always cocked and locked!
Same here.
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Just to pile on, I've been carrying a 1911 since 1987 and have always carried it cocked and locked,it's how the Sainted JMB designed it.
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I would never tell anyone not to use all the safeties that the manufacturer puts on the pistol. That said, I seen a lot of people miss safeties during FOF training. Just one of the reasons I like Glocks and S&W M&P's.
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I would never tell anyone not to use all the safeties that the manufacturer puts on the pistol. That said, I seen a lot of people miss safeties during FOF training. Just one of the reasons I like Glocks and S&W M&P's.
That is why we don't say "practice makes perfect." It is perfect practice that matters. I you are carrying a gun and have problems with the safety you are not practicing properly and enough.
My biggest issue when I started competitive shooting was not the thumb safety. My problem was the grip safety. When I would grip the gun in the holster quickly I would leave a gap that would allow the grip safety to not be disengaged. I was very quick and accurate shooting guns that did not have a grip safety,but I could not shoot my guns with grip safeties without adjusting my grip as I came on target. A little coaching and lots of practice cured the problem.
If you can not manipulate the safety reliably it is time for some more instruction and better practice!
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That is why we don't say "practice makes perfect." It is perfect practice that matters. I you are carrying a gun and have problems with the safety you are not practicing properly and enough.
My biggest issue when I started competitive shooting was not the thumb safety. My problem was the grip safety. When I would grip the gun in the holster quickly I would leave a gap that would allow the grip safety to not be disengaged. I was very quick and accurate shooting guns that did not have a grip safety,but I could not shoot my guns with grip safeties without adjusting my grip as I came on target. A little coaching and lots of practice cured the problem.
If you can not manipulate the safety reliably it is time for some more instruction and better practice!
Or a pistol better suited to your hand size.
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Or a pistol better suited to your hand size.
True! But ten minutes with Rob Leatham was a lot cheaper!
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Aren't you supposed to be working ? ;D
(Probably more fun too ! ;D )
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Yes, but a boy of my stature from Iowa and a clown for NH distracted me ;D
The dangerous thing with Windows is that I can multi-task*. You guys are always just a click away as I go from task to task.
* See M'ette, organized guys can master the finer things in life too ;)
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That is why we don't say "practice makes perfect." It is perfect practice that matters. I you are carrying a gun and have problems with the safety you are not practicing properly and enough.
My biggest issue when I started competitive shooting was not the thumb safety. My problem was the grip safety. When I would grip the gun in the holster quickly I would leave a gap that would allow the grip safety to not be disengaged. I was very quick and accurate shooting guns that did not have a grip safety,but I could not shoot my guns with grip safeties without adjusting my grip as I came on target. A little coaching and lots of practice cured the problem.
If you can not manipulate the safety reliably it is time for some more instruction and better practice!
In the FOF training you have had have you ever missed the safety or seen anyone else miss the safety?
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That is why we don't say "practice makes perfect." It is perfect practice that matters. I you are carrying a gun and have problems with the safety you are not practicing properly and enough.
My biggest issue when I started competitive shooting was not the thumb safety. My problem was the grip safety. When I would grip the gun in the holster quickly I would leave a gap that would allow the grip safety to not be disengaged. I was very quick and accurate shooting guns that did not have a grip safety,but I could not shoot my guns with grip safeties without adjusting my grip as I came on target. A little coaching and lots of practice cured the problem.
If you can not manipulate the safety reliably it is time for some more instruction and better practice!
Or you can take Col. Cooper's advice on the 1911 grip safety and pin it down.
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I have to admit that I am not sure what your acronym FOF stands for. But I can tell you that no, I have never missed a thumb safety or seen someone in one of my classes miss one. The reason for that is that I was taught, and I teach, that the thumb safety is where the thumb goes. Even with my Baretta where the thumb can't rest on it, the thumb brushes it on its way to the shooting position.
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I have to admit that I am not sure what your acronym FOF stands for. But I can tell you that no, I have never missed a thumb safety or seen someone in one of my classes miss one. The reason for that is that I was taught, and I teach, that the thumb safety is where the thumb goes. Even with my Baretta where the thumb can't rest on it, the thumb brushes it on its way to the shooting position.
FOF=Force On Force. I have never seen anyone miss a safety in live fire training or competition or least I don't remember it if I have. I don't ever remember missing a 1911 safety either until FOF training, Having a real living breathing opponent changes things. If you ever have the opportunity to take FOF training do so. I watched many opinions change in one class.
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FOF=Force On Force. I have never seen anyone miss a safety in live fire training or competition or least I don't remember it if I have. I don't ever remember missing a 1911 safety either until FOF training, Having a real living breathing opponent changes things. If you ever have the opportunity to take FOF training do so. I watched many opinions change in one class.
Getting to that age are we ?
Don't feel bad, I wouldn't remember my name if people didn't yell to remind me.
It seems to be "Jesus Christ !", but you can call me JC. ;D
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Both my carry guns have a safety. Of course the 1911 has 2 my Mil Pro has 1 , but I have found myself wiping both hammer block safety's off in certain circumstances. I would not advise carrying in this condition. But always carry chambered with a second magazine at the ready.
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I am glad for all those who have never missed swiping a safety off. I have missed on rare occasions in both IDPA and USPSA. So I can imagine it would be a bigger issue on the street. I feel it is less of a problem to those brought up on guns with safeties. However if you have a variety of firing systems, discussion for another day,stress can be a bitch. Personal opinion I only carry guns without a safety.
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I am glad for all those who have never missed swiping a safety off. I have missed on rare occasions in both IDPA and USPSA. So I can imagine it would be a bigger issue on the street. I feel it is less of a problem to those brought up on guns with safeties. However if you have a variety of firing systems, discussion for another day,stress can be a bitch. Personal opinion I only carry guns without a safety.
I started my carry habits with a 1911...years before there was a CCW option in Ohio. When I switched to Glocks for carry, still with no CCW option in Ohio, I continued to swipe the thumb safety with the Glock...so I don't think I'd have a lot of problems with that aspect of going back to a 1911.
Of course if you pin the grip safety on the 1911 and once you have swiped the thumb safety, you have a Glock....except the Glock has a trigger safety, weighs half as much and carries twice the rounds ;D ;D ;D
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My FNP-9 has no safety, just an ambi-decocker. Carried with one in the chamber, point, aim, fire. Unless you cock the hammer, the first will be DA.
Same as my other semi-autos...One may never have a chance to rack. If it makes one uncomfortable to carry a semi auto in Condition 1, a revolver or some qualified training will help.
IMHO, there is no difference carrying a fully loaded revolver, with a DA pull, than my P3AT with a long DA pull, or M&P, G21, etc,..
The stigma of a 1911 cocked and locked still has a psychological effect on those unfamiliar,...but remember, it was kinda designed to be carried that way... ;)
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I started my carry habits with a 1911...years before there was a CCW option in Ohio. When I switched to Glocks for carry, still with no CCW option in Ohio, I continued to swipe the thumb safety with the Glock...so I don't think I'd have a lot of problems with that aspect of going back to a 1911.
Of course if you pin the grip safety on the 1911 and once you have swiped the thumb safety, you have a Glock....except the Glock has a trigger safety, weighs half as much and carries twice the rounds ;D ;D ;D
LOL! Thanks for the laugh. I was looking at getting a gun that would be legal to have in CA as I have the occasion to travel to Eastern LA Metro and my XDM exceeds the capacity limit of ten. Not too mention the excuse to buy another gun ;D. I was considering a 1911 but after some thought I am looking towards the XDS, Glock 36/27/26 or maybe an LCP because of the issues you cited.
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The stigma of a 1911 cocked and locked still has a psychological effect on those unfamiliar,...but remember, it was kinda designed to be carried that way... ;)
And, it's a 100 year old design from before hammer blocks and decocking devices!
Still my preferred auto loading pistol though! I find myself swiping the thumb safety on my Ruger revolver when I draw the weapon! It's been a habit for so long I guess that's called muscle memory.
;)
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And, it's a 100 year old design from before hammer blocks and decocking devices!
Still my preferred auto loading pistol though! I find myself swiping the thumb safety on my Ruger revolver when I draw the weapon! It's been a habit for so long I guess that's called muscle memory.
;)
Yep.
I went back to my Commander back in October and it was like getting reacquainted with an old friend. ;)
I was sitting at the table the other evening and my oldest said, "Hey, you do know that thing is cocked, don't you?"
I said, "If it wasn't, I'd be worried."
I then seized the opportunity to, once again, delve into the finer points of JMB's design genius.............. ;D
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Yep.
I was sitting at the table the other evening and my oldest said, "Hey, you do know that thing is cocked, don't you?"
I said, "If it wasn't, I'd be worried."
Carrying my daughters Sig the last couple of months and kept checking to see that I had de-cocked the pistol. It was kinda unnerving! I finally just loaded the damn thing and left it that way!
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Carrying my daughters Sig the last couple of months and kept checking to see that I had de-cocked the pistol. It was kinda unnerving! I finally just loaded the damn thing and left it that way!
I have never been able to get used to pistols with de-cockers.........that whole "hammer dropping and the gun NOT going BANG" thing just hasn't set well with me......I know they have a place, just not in my stable.
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I always carry a round in the chamber and do not worry about the 3 safeties of my Glock. Grateful that I have never had an issue. Nor have I had one with any other manufacturer's firearms such as Smith and Wesson, Beretta, Taurus or Ruger. Always carried a round in the chamber and safety off on the mentioned firearms.
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If you can't or won't carry with a round in the chamber it is like someone who can and will telling the bad guy. "Make your move. I'll count to one before I start my draw".
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If you can't or won't carry with a round in the chamber it is like someone who can and will telling the bad guy. "Make your move. I'll count to one before I start my draw".
And here endeth the lesson. ;)
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I carry it cock and lock allways one in the chamber
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I carry a Kel-Tec P11 with one in the chamber. The double action 8 pound trigger is the safety. To my mind that is a plus as during a stressed situation you have less to remember and the adrenalin will make the trigger easier to pull but not too easy as might be with a 3 pound trigger.
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I'm personally a fan of "cocked and locked", but it becomes a matter for each individual to decide.
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I'm personally a fan of "cocked and locked", but it becomes a matter for each individual to decide.
Not really. There is still the personal safety issue. While the gun must be loaded to be worth carrying, if there is a safety it MUST be used. If you can't manipulate a safety under stress you are not practicing enough, but it does not justify leaving the safety off. For guns without a safety, like most revolvers and pocket pistols, they are designed to be safe and must still be carried in a holster that protects the trigger.
Individual decisions are made when the gun is purchased, and after that the tool is used as designed. John M. Browning believed in cocked and locked, he designed his gun that way, it is still made that way, and that is how I carry it!