The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: billt on February 03, 2012, 02:13:12 PM
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(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/DPMSPantherAP4Carbine001.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/DPMSPantherAP4Carbine006.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/DPMSPantherAP4Carbine003.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/DPMSPantherAP4Carbine005.jpg)
I just picked it up this morning. It had everything I wanted, and the price was right. Removable carry handle with A-2 sights, plus a free floater forend. It came with 2, 20 round mags and the dealer threw in a 20 round Mag-Pul P-Mag which I really like. I'll be picking up a few more. I won't get a chance to crank it up until Monday, weather permitting.
This is my first .308 AR. I have a couple of Springfield M1-A's, and I'll be glad to see how this one stacks up. It seems like a nice, solid, well made rifle. Fit, finish, and overall feel look good, and I really like the sights. I'm still not used to the big magazine! When he handed me the Mag-Pul P-Mag I did a double take because I'm so used to .223. This thing looks like it's going to get shot a lot! Does anyone have any ammo recommendations? I've been running 42.0 Gr. of Varget under a 168 Gr. Sierra Matchking in all of my other .308's, and it's more or less been my "go to" round in that caliber because it runs well in all of my rifles. Anyway,I'm looking forward to lighting it up!
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Congrats and welcome to the club!
I didn't think it would ever happen, but I actually had something before Billt ;D And then when he plays catch up he purchases the exact same model ;D
I'm headed to DPMS next week. Care to have me fondle anything else for you?
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Barrel length will affect the "efficiency" of a load that works well in a longer barrel. Unburned power makes an impressive show, but won't get the bullet moving as fast.
Twist rate, if there is a difference between a M1A and an AR (?), will affect what bullet weights will work best.
.308 on the AR platform has been on my "Wish List" for awhile, so I'm interested in your findings.
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Congrats and welcome to the club!
I didn't think it would ever happen, but I actually had something before Billt ;D And then when he plays catch up he purchases the exact same model ;D
I'm headed to DPMS next week. Care to have me fondle anything else for you?
How does yours run for you? Have you had good luck with it?
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Twist rate, if there is a difference between a M1A and an AR (?), will affect what bullet weights will work best. .308 on the AR platform has been on my "Wish List" for awhile, so I'm interested in your findings.
This new DPMS has a 1 in 10" twist. The Standard Model Springfield M1-A is listed as having a 1 in 11" twist. Both of my Savage bolt guns are 1 in 10" twist as well.
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Found this table here: http://www.assaultweb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96925
Don't know how knowledgeable the site is.
.308 / 7.62mm
1:15 up to 150 grains
1:14 150 – 168 grains
1:12 168 – 170 grains
1:10 170 – 220 grains
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How does yours run for you? Have you had good luck with it?
Like a Timex! It takes a liken and keeps on ticken. I have three DPMS Ar's, and none have ever failed me. I shoot a variety of ammo through them, and the just run and run and run.
I don't know if other manufacturers are different, because I have only owned DPMS. As of right now I rant continually that there is nothing wrong with AR's. I clean them, I shoot them, I abuse them and I clean them again. I shoot them in the desert, in the rain, snow sleet and in the mud. We are raffling off a AP4 and I let someone else on our committee take mine home to shoot. It hasn't been cleaned in several hundred rounds. I sent six loaded 30 round mags home with them. They shot them all in the freezing rain without a hiccup.
Enjoy the toy!
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Good to know, thanks!
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Get a .308 Compensator billt, (you will thank me & m25 later),....Brownell's has several.....
They are well worth it... This VLTOR is $59. But there are others.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24288/Product/AR-15-M16-223-AR-STYLE-308-FLASH-SUPPRESSOR-COMPENSATOR
all the others.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=.308+compensator/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=.308_compensator
Congratulations!!!!!
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http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=4854&cat=1940
My photos don't show it, but this is the flash suppressor it came with. (Click on the picture).
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http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=4854&cat=1940
My photos don't show it, but this is the flash suppressor it came with. (Click on the picture).
He is talking a compensator to replace the flash hider.
This is what is on my wish list
http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.3_tre.php (http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.3_tre.php)
I have seen them on the AR15, and I have heard lots of good about them. I don't know if he is still there, but there was a gunsmith at Rio Salado that had connections with JP.
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Is this a "screw off.....screw on" type of deal?
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Is this a "screw off.....screw on" type of deal?
Yes, there is a pin to keep it in place, but after you drive it out (it's tapered only goes one way ) it's just screw off you flash suppressor , screw on the compensator and put the pin back.
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The Miculek comp. I put on my AR, and the Titan comp I put on my Sig 556, do increase percussion and report, however, the recoil is substantially reduced...and I do mean substantial.
For a .308 I have heard nothing but good things about adding one. Especially for a shoulder fired rifle.
Here's our illustrious MIA moderator of our Tactical Rifle thread doing a demo. Oh and it's the same rifle billt...
Where the heck has he been....??????
that's all you billt!!!! ;D
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That's amazing! The thing recoils like a .223.
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(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/DPMS308MuzzleBrake.jpg)
This is the muzzle brake / flash suppressor on my rifle. It appears to be the crush washer type, and not the pin type. At least there isn't any pin I can see.
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Bill,
I haven't changed mine out yet, but I understand that it is just like the .223 - spin off and spin on.
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(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/DPMS308MuzzleBrake.jpg)
This is the muzzle brake / flash suppressor on my rifle. It appears to be the crush washer type, and not the pin type. At least there isn't any pin I can see.
Should be all set then.
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I have the Miculek comp on .223 AR.
It is not so bad shooting it, behind the trigger, but stand off to the sides and it really rattles your dental fillings.
The USPSA has it's own publication called the Front Sight. Somebody had done an experiment with different comps, a laser designator/pointer, and a camera with a very slow shutter speed. The laser made more or less of a squiggly up and down line on the target depending on which compensator/muzzle brake was screwed on. A Caldwell Lead Sled was used to eliminate any undue influence of a human shoulder behind the rifle.
I would also like to get an AR in .308, so your review was right up my alley. Thanks!
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as far as reloading for it and in .308, pfft....It's been years since I reloaded for .308 and 168 SMK's would probably be too rich for my blood.
I would buy surplus pull down 147 grain FMJ's meant for the M60 or M240 machine guns.
I am a cheap bastard.
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Cheap is good Tyler cause I am sure the DPMS will shoot it.
Having carried Colt's, owning a Bushmaster and currently owning a DPMS, I would buy another DPMS hands down. I would really love to purchase the DPMS AP4 in .308. Hate getting my balls busted on other forums for owning a DPMS but I think they are great rifles.
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I went to the range this morning with the new .308 DPMS, and overall had a very good range session. The gun functioned flawlessly. No FTF or FTE's. The gun ate everything it was fed. I tried both DPMS magazines that came with the rifle and both fed 19 rounds each of Magtech 150 Gr. FMJ without a hitch. I then switched to the Mag-Pul P-Mag I had for all the rest of my shooting, because that is the magazine I will be purchasing several extras of. It ran fine with everything I stuffed in it.
At 8.25 pounds empty, the gun has very manageable recoil. Much less than a light .308 sporter like my Winchester Model 88 does. It was LOUD! Much louder than any .223 AR-15. Ejection was positive, but it did not damage or ding any of the brass. I don't have any optics on this rifle, and really don't intend to mount any. The standard A-2 sights were pretty close at 100 yards, where all my shooting was from. I had to adjust about 2 inches up and about 2 to 3 inches to the left, and everything after that was well central on the targets.
After about 50 rounds I switched to some handloads I had brought that were loaded with 42.0 Gr. of Varget under a Sierra 168 Gr. Matchking bullet. My eyes were getting used to the sights, and using the small aperture shooting off the bench it was not difficult to get groups that could be covered with a drink coaster. For my 59 year old ageing eyes I'll call that good. I switched to some Hornady 168 Gr. A-Max bullets loaded with the same 42.0 Gr. of Varget. They grouped just a bit tighter, but I would of had to have a scope mounted to really establish which was the better load as far as accuracy.
After taking a break and BS'ing with some of the guys there I tried some informal offhand shooting on the 200 yards steel plates. It was very easy to achieve steady hits. This rifle is very easy to shoot accurately. Much more so than my Springfield M1-A's are offhand. It being shorter is far less muzzle heavy and less tiresome to shoot from an offhand stance. All in all I ran a total of 220 rounds through the gun. More .308 than I normally would shoot at a single range outing.
Before I left I heavily lubed up everything, and after every 30 rounds or so, I gave the bolt and bolt lugs several drops of Mobil 1 to keep everything good and slick. After I got home the gun cleaned up effortlessly. Everyone has their own method of lubricating AR's. For me more is better. I disassembled the bolt carrier group and washed everything in clean Kerosene, then blew everything dry with compressed air. I then re oiled and greased everything, and the gun was as spotless as before I took it out of the case.
I used Bore Tech Eliminator in the barrel, and it cleaned up much easier than I had expected. I didn't get the barrel very hot, and gave it plenty of time to cool off between magazines. It was mostly cloudy and cool out with almost no wind at all. Overall I'm very pleased with this rifle. The gun ran perfectly, shot where it was aimed, and was easy to handle doing it. I wished I hadn't waited so long to get into the .308 AR game. These guns are a lot of fun, and I couldn't be more pleased.
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Thanks for the report billt. Sounds like a real winner in the stable. Curious I have found bore-snakes make life easier than regular rods, do you use them?
I too want a .308 AR,...and really want to build one like my 5.56 build last year. I want to try the longer barrel version similar to the LWRC REPR, (without the LWRC price)....
but a nice DPMS like yours would be a great foundation to start with,...as it can always be tweaked...
Thanks again for the report.
tw
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Curious I have found bore-snakes make life easier than regular rods, do you use them? tw
I've always been meaning to try them, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm really sold on Bore Tech Eliminator for getting rid of copper fouling. It won't harm your barrel or gas system, and it has no Ammonia in it. The stuff is completely odorless, and even has rust inhibitors in it. It cleaned up the barrel on my DPMS in no time. Just be sure to only use a nylon brush with it. It will dissolve a bronze brush in no time!
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I've always been meaning to try them, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm really sold on Bore Tech Eliminator for getting rid of copper fouling. It won't harm your barrel or gas system, and it has no Ammonia in it. The stuff is completely odorless, and even has rust inhibitors in it. It cleaned up the barrel on my DPMS in no time. Just be sure to only use a nylon brush with it. It will dissolve a bronze brush in no time!
Ammonia-LOL! Reminded me of my youth,12 or 13, when my dad was on the Army Reserve shooting team and he was cleaning his rifle, M1 I think, one Monday afternoon after a match. He calls me over, "smell this..." I stuck my nose in and took a BIG whiff-YAWL! I don't remember where I went but I know I ended up outside on the far end of the house with needles poking out my head and my mom holding me tight. Concentrated ammonia, mom was pissed and I never forgot that valuable lesson, getting your kids to smell nasty stuff is fun! ;D
Oh yeah.... and if you are smelling something you're not sure of- NEVER smell it directly from the container, wave it to your nose with your hand and GENTLY sniff.
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:)I have the heavy barrel, 24", LR308, and it is great.
I shoot 40 grains IMR 4895, Sierra 168 g HPBT, and it will shoot 10 rounds into less than 1" all day.
I usually am under 5/8". It has about 2000 rounds through the barrel now.
Last Saturday I put 8 rounds into 3/8" at 100 yards, then I pulled the last two out for a 5/8" group.
Federal Match, with the Sierra 168 grain HPBT shoots very well as a factory load.
Just for your info, I have been trying the CFE223 powder, but I am not really impressed with it.
The barrel cleans up very quick and easy, but the groups give some vertical stringing, compared to the IMR 4895.
I am using the Millet LRS1 scope with the 1/10 click adjustments. Works great :)
I also use a Geissele National Match trigger. (1st stage 1#8oz, 2nd stage 6oz, total 2#4oz., really works well)
I would suggest a wedge, it tightens up the halves very well.
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(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/ErgoDeLuxeTacticalAR-15Grip004.jpg)
This is it after I installed the Vltor E-Mod Stock on it. Since then I've also added an Ergo Grip from Falcon Industries. It really improves the feel of the rifle.
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(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/ErgoDeLuxeTacticalAR-15Grip004.jpg)
This is it after I installed the Vltor E-Mod Stock on it. Since then I've also added an Ergo Grip from Falcon Industries. It really improves the feel of the rifle.
The ERGO Grip by Falcon Ind. is what I put on my Frankenstein AR. Sooooooo much better than the standard grip. Also went with the VLTOR E-Mod.....Great minds think alike.... 8)
Any thoughts on the handguard? Keep it, go vented? Mine started like yours, but got damn hot after repetitive fire. I than put the YHM vented carbine quad rail with the rubber ladder panels to keep the grip without the "edges". I was just curious, as rapid fire has got to get that grip hot...
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Thus far the forend has been fine. I don't shoot too much rapid fire. At least not enough to heat the handguard to the point of it being uncomfortable. The only thing I don't like is I wish it had a sling swivel or 2 for mounting a bi pod. It would have been easy enough to put on.