The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: garand4life on February 06, 2012, 07:57:28 PM
-
I am flying to NM next month and need a dummies guide to transporting via plane.
I plan on taking my AR and my 2 SIG handguns. No, I'm not paranoid, my friend there that's getting married wants to go so spend a day at the range for his bachelor party.
I understand only as much, at this point, that they must be in a hard shell lockable case. I would also be taking ammo for my carry gun only. I have not bought a case yet so please, someone, walk me through step by step how I should package these to check them as luggage. Assume that that is all I know and that you were flying, how would you pack it. Them refresh me as to the full check in process and what to do and not to do.
Totally lost.....
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk
-
What I did when I flew with my 1911 at Christmas I ran a bore snake through just so it was obvious that it was clear. If I had taken my XD I would have torn it down. Make sure the ammo is in original packaging I put the mags in mag pouch in the hard case. I put my knife in the hard case also. I had gotten the official TSA locks, but from the way the TSA agent in Missoula acted it's not unusual to use normal padlocks.
They'll at least swab your hands.
-
garand4life:
You need to find three websites:
1. TSA - They will tell you everything you need to know;
2. The airline you are flying on - They will tell you their expectations (rules);
3. Your airport.
Basics are you need a hard sided case with padlock; the guns must be unloaded - I leave the actions open; ammunition must be in a factory box and not in the gun case; TSA will give you an ammunition weight and count - I believe it is ten pounds or 200 rounds, which ever is least, but our airport maxes you at 100 rounds, so out to the pick up I went to stuff some under the seat; number of guns you can take with you; and they want you at the airport to check in two hours early. Our airport also has asked, but not required, that the gun case not look like a gun case, so I put my Kalispel in a duffel bag. When I just take handguns I put the case in my suitcase, and the ammunition is in the suitcase as well.
It is really easy! Just be open and honest - I tell the clerks at check in that I have firearms as I unlock and open the case, I go through the showing they are unloaded, and I do what they ask. When you go from the check in to TSA make sure they escort you! The biggest issue I had was one time they just sent me over. The TSA agents were ready to explode ... They did explode! However, it was the check in guy that dang near got hauled off.
Enjoy the trip!
-
Michael Bane is probably the uber "Go To Guy" on flying with a firearm.....
Some good some bad,...but try to avoid NYC.....
-
Dakotaranger,
I usually fly out of Minneapolis, and the check in folks turn pasty white when I start the gun thing. Once in a while I fly out of Sioux Falls, and out there they turn pasty white if you don't check a gun in your luggage. I thought they were going to ask the guy behind me if he was sure he didn't have a gun he needed to check.
-
OK thanks. My big questions at this point would be:
Can I use one hard case to keep the rifle and 2 handguns in with their magazines (empty obviously)? For the ammo, any particular way anybody would suggest packing it? In a small lockable container in the suitcase?
-
Dakotaranger,
I usually fly out of Minneapolis, and the check in folks turn pasty white when I start the gun thing. Once in a while I fly out of Sioux Falls, and out there they turn pasty white if you don't check a gun in your luggage. I thought they were going to ask the guy behind me if he was sure he didn't have a gun he needed to check.
When I flew out of Bismarck I just told the ticket agent I had a sidearm. He didn' even care if he checked it. Missula convinced me that the TSA could be replaced by any mall ninja and we would be safer.
-
What gets a pass in one airport, may call the dogs on you in another.....Cover your bases,...
-
Just a note... I'm flying out of Pittsburgh to Dallas to Roswell NM... Can anybody recommend a reasonable price hard case and lock/locks that would be big enough for a collapsed AR15 (Ruger SR556c) and 2 handguns with 40 rounds of ammo? TSA and AA said the ammo can be in the rifle case as long as it's in a cardboard/plastic/metal container made for ammo.
-
Just a note... I'm flying out of Pittsburgh to Dallas to Roswell NM... Can anybody recommend a reasonable price hard case and lock/locks that would be big enough for a collapsed AR15 (Ruger SR556c) and 2 handguns with 40 rounds of ammo? TSA and AA said the ammo can be in the rifle case as long as it's in a cardboard/plastic/metal container made for ammo.
I've got a Plano for about $80
-
I use a Kalispel "The Original." It is aluminum with four hasps. A steel rod goes through all four hasps, and a single pad lock hold it in place. Last trip to Arizona I carried one rifle and four handguns in this case. The requirements are that it be hardsided and lockable. The TSA agents I have visited with prefer a good padlock to the locking latches. If you go with a poly case I recommend locks in each hole since they flex enough that you can torque them open.
For ammunition I just put the factory box in my suitcase. When I just have one or two handguns the ammunition box goes in the suitcase, and the smaller locked gun case goes in the same suitcase.
Airlines used to allow you to rent or just use for a deposit gun cases and locks. However, the rent and/or deposit was like $20 for a $150 aluminum case ... Guess how many were ever returned to the airlines.
-
Okay, here is what I have now. I am taking my 1911 my M&P and my Bodyguard .380 I have the 1911 and the BG in a Secure-it metal lockbox that "Meets TSA airline firearm guidelines" and the M&P in another one. I am going to put these both in my suitecase that I am checking. Can I:
A) Put all the accompanying magazines in a small cardboard box in the suitecase as well?
B) Put the carry ammo I am taking in a MTM Case guard container in the Suitecase?
C) Put my holsters loose in the bag as well?
When I get to check in do I basically put the bag up on the counter and say, " I am traveling with firearms I need to declare", then open the bag to retrieve the 2 lock boxes to show they are clear?
What is the deal with not allowing anyone to have the key for any reason at anytime? I heard this mentioned before but can't put it in context.
-
Magazines can be in same cases as the firearms;
Ammunition must be in factory boxes, may not be in the case with the firearms, but can be in the same suitcase the firearm cases are in;
Holsters can be anywhere you want them. They are nothing but another piece of clothing.
When you get to the check in counter put your bag on the scale as usual, tell them you have three unloaded firearms in locked cases inside the suitcase, and start opening the suitcase. Once you have it open show them the factory boxed ammunition that is not with the firearms - declaring the ammunition prior to this will throw some ticket agents into information overload.
Small regional airports where hunting is common are used to firearms, but larger airports are different. When I fly out of Sioux Falls, SD I start the above spiel, and they look at me like "You and everyone else in this terminal." However, when I fly out of Mpls/St Paul the check in folk will turn pale and try to get someone else to do it for them.
I use the same routine with every airport:
Bag on scale;
Paperwork and driver's license to agent;
Start opening suitcase as I declare firearms;
Point out ammunition;
Open gun case;
Actions are already open and ready, so just show unloaded and clear;
Show empty magazines;
Close and lock cases;
Zip up suitcase;
Follow agent to TSA;
Stand and smile nice while TSA tries to figure out what you have in the case;
Go to plane;
Turn in paperwork (if they give you any) at gate desk;
Watch out the window as your bag gets special handling (typically last on the plane and first off).
As you go through this just watch and listen to the agents and TSA, they will either move with you, ask you to do something else, or give you special instructions. I always live under the assumption that TSA has no sense of humor, but if you treat them with respect and kindness you will find that most are real people. I even had one take me back for an inspection because he had never seen or handled an open gun (he asked if I had time and it was ok - I'll play with any gun guy, so of course I did).
Whatever you do - Make sure you declare the gun before you show it or the ammunition, and make sure the check in agent escorts you to TSA. Last check in that just sent me over was hauled off by TSA. I thought I was in trouble, but TSA explained to me I did everything right at both desks, but the check in agent broke a major rule by not escorting me. If they don't come with you - protect him and ask him if he shouldn't be with you.
-
these lock boxes aren't really big enough to hold magazines as well so can the empty mags be in a separate box like a small cardboard shipping box just big enough to hold them?
-
these lock boxes aren't really big enough to hold magazines as well so can the empty mags be in a separate box like a small cardboard shipping box just big enough to hold them?
Yup. Being the redneck I am, I'd just use my best pair of socks to hold them. Since your gun cases are in the suit case you will want to show the magazines, but other than that you wouldn't need to.
-
Okay, here is what I have now. I am taking my 1911 my M&P and my Bodyguard .380 I have the 1911 and the BG in a Secure-it metal lockbox that "Meets TSA airline firearm guidelines" and the M&P in another one. I am going to put these both in my suitecase that I am checking. Can I:
A) Put all the accompanying magazines in a small cardboard box in the suitecase as well?
B) Put the carry ammo I am taking in a MTM Case guard container in the Suitecase?
C) Put my holsters loose in the bag as well?
When I get to check in do I basically put the bag up on the counter and say, " I am traveling with firearms I need to declare", then open the bag to retrieve the 2 lock boxes to show they are clear?
What is the deal with not allowing anyone to have the key for any reason at anytime? I heard this mentioned before but can't put it in context.
Have the ammo in the factory box or a plastic box for reloaders. You don't need a special case for it. It can be in the same locked case the gun is in.
Declare an unloaded firearm at the ticket counter and you'll be handed an orange slip to fill out. That goes in the luggage where the gun is. If they don't ask for you to open the gun cases - DON'T. Many places just check that it is clear by x-ray.
In PHX, you wait at a designated area - "sit over there for about 15-20 minutes."
If there isn't any problem, you go on your way. If there is a problem, that's why you are sitting and waiting where you are, so they can get the key if needed. You don't give the key to anyone but a TSA agent and only if they ask for it.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
Travelers must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be pulled open with little effort cannot be brought aboard the aircraft.
If firearms are not properly declared or packaged, TSA will provide the bag to law enforcement for resolution with the airline. If the issue is resolved, law enforcement will release the bag to TSA so screening may be completed.
TSA must resolve all alarms of checked luggage. If a locked container containing a firearm alarms, TSA will contact the airline, who will make a reasonable attempt to contact the owner and advise the passenger to go to the screening location. If contact is not made, the container will not be placed on the aircraft.
If a locked container alarms during screening and is not marked as containing a declared firearm, TSA will cut the lock in order to resolve the alarm.
Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.
Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Firearm magazines and ammunition clips must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm.
Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber for a rifle or pistol and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it follows the packing guidelines described above.
TSA prohibits black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder.
-
The gun case has to be locked, and NOT with TSA-key locks. I use Master locks. If TSA decides to look inside the gun case, instead of just x-raying it, they'll call for you to come open it. If they call and don't reach you, they will cut off the locks to look inside, which leaves you in a weird spot of trying to locate more locks in an airport before your flight leaves (and is why I always include 2 extra unlocked Master locks in my Pelican case). My case has big stickers on both sides with my name and cell phone number.
I've been told by experienced travelers that you're better off breaking down whatever you have into as many parts as possible inside the gun case. When TSA x-rays the case, you want them to see a bunch of separate parts instead of an assembled firearm. That way, they will likely assume it's unloaded and safe (which it is, of course).
When I travel with a Glock, I make sure the slide is quite obviously off the frame, the barrel is obviously out of the slide, spring is elsewhere in the case, etc. I want them to see a bunch of parts and think "that's a gun?" All the parts gotta be in the case, of course.
-
A couple of you talk about them not inspecting. According to TSA rules, and has happened on every flight I take large airport or small, the firearms must be visually inspected by the airlines (check in clerk). Technically, when you take everything to TSA it is to be unlocked so they can open it if needed, and then YOU lock it when they are satisfied. When I put the case in my suitcase I lock them before zipping the suitcase shut.
TSA requires you to remain at the check point until they have done all x-rays and inspections if needed. Last fall in Tampa they took my keys and opened the case, last spring in Phoenix they had me stand next to them while they opened my case and double checked, and twice in MPLS/St. Paul they have had me step up to the x-ray screen and explain what was inside. None of these included the show and tell I did that one day so an agent could see and feel an open gun.
I never disassemble a gun for a flight! On bolt actions I will sometimes remove the bolt, but that is more because it rides better in the case that way. I will lock a slide back once in a while. But, I never do anything I don't do when I take them in a car.
I can't tell you how many flights I have taken with guns. For a while I kept the red tags as a memory, but I threw them all out last fall - I think there were close to 25 that had collected in the box of misc. papers and licenses. Last year I took four trips - seven flights (one was a one way to Chicago).
-
Here is the thing about traveling, flying with, carrying, obtaining, having and keeping, and using firearms:
It is not big deal, so don't make a big deal out of it!
It is not only our Constitutionally protected right, but it is a normal part of life.
Know the laws and rules, and just do it.
If we get all worked up over it so will others. It isn't our concern if the general public gets concerned. Just do what you are supposed to do, and move on.
Watch others in check out lines. Some people go about their daily lives like everything is normal, and nobody notices them. However, some people are so concerned they draw attention to what they are doing. Watch men buying "men's magazines", certain medications, condoms or feminine products. They get all wound up, they make a big deal about it, and everyone around them knows what they are doing. If they just walk up, set it down, and pay the bill, nobody cares. This is why I go through the routine the way I do. I researched the system, I eased into it, and now that I know it well, I just do it.
I had a "small man" in Phoenix harass gun toters one day (there were three of us traveling with guns, but we were not together). One guy did pretty well and made it through, one went into a panic at the first word and ended up back at TSA - They sent him back eventually with the reassurance he was ok, and I just said prove that I'm wrong. He claimed that I had my guns packed wrong. I know the rules, had passed TSA, and I had flown out there that way. I just put it back in his lap. He pulled out his manual, but he couldn't show I was wrong. His thing was "Whell! I interpret the law for our airline, and this is my rule!" I asked then how I was to get home. Once he realized that "his" airline had let me fly into Phoenix he should probably let me fly home. Don't let them rattle you!
-
The gun case has to be locked, and NOT with TSA-key locks. I use Master locks. If TSA decides to look inside the gun case, instead of just x-raying it, they'll call for you to come open it. If they call and don't reach you, they will cut off the locks to look inside, which leaves you in a weird spot of trying to locate more locks in an airport before your flight leaves (and is why I always include 2 extra unlocked Master locks in my Pelican case). My case has big stickers on both sides with my name and cell phone number.
I've been told by experienced travelers that you're better off breaking down whatever you have into as many parts as possible inside the gun case. When TSA x-rays the case, you want them to see a bunch of separate parts instead of an assembled firearm. That way, they will likely assume it's unloaded and safe (which it is, of course).
When I travel with a Glock, I make sure the slide is quite obviously off the frame, the barrel is obviously out of the slide, spring is elsewhere in the case, etc. I want them to see a bunch of parts and think "that's a gun?" All the parts gotta be in the case, of course.
Does it really matter that it looks like a gun? You have already declared the gun. Also where are you getting the no TSA lock info? I have flown twice in the last six months with guns using TSA locks. I agree that they are probably not a secure as a master lock, but locks only keep honest people honest. If there is a no TSA lock rule I have missed something and need to make a change to my procedure.
-
A couple of you talk about them not inspecting. According to TSA rules, and has happened on every flight I take large airport or small, the firearms must be visually inspected by the airlines (check in clerk). Technically, when you take everything to TSA it is to be unlocked so they can open it if needed, and then YOU lock it when they are satisfied. When I put the case in my suitcase I lock them before zipping the suitcase shut.
Odd...the only time I have EVER opened a gun case was flying out of Fargo.
I had a bolt action 700 and a 629. You would have thought from watching the inspector that I was flying with two cold fusion reactors.
I'd be surprised if they could find more than 2 airline employees at Phx Sky Harbor that know their ass from a hole in the ground, let alone know if a gun is unloaded.
-
Two things: First, there is a difference between what the airline desk clerks do and what they are supposed to do - I do what I am supposed to do; Second, how do they fill out the papers with the number of firearms and that they have verified they are unloaded if they do not visually inspect?
-
I apologize, I should have been more clear on the TSA locks issue on the gun case. It's not a TSA issue, but an airline issue. TSA says on their website:
- The container must be locked.
- The passenger must provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared.
However, Southwest Airlines (which I always use), says on their website:
- The locked container or suitcase must completely secure the firearm from access. Cases or suitcases that can be pulled open with minimal effort do not meet the locked criterion.
- Only the Customer checking the luggage should retain the key or combination to the lock. No exceptions will be made.
When I asked Southwest about "only the customer" aspect, they said that means no TSA locks on the gun case. I just checked American Airlines' website, and they say TSA locks ARE approved. US Air's website has language similar to Southwest's ("Baggage containing firearms must be locked at all times and the key or lock combination retained by the passenger"), but I've not talked to them so I don't know what their position is on TSA locks. In the end, if you're going to use TSA locks, I think it's best to check with the particular airline. Since TSA locks are not required, I use non-TSA locks on the gun case.
Of course, other people's experiences will vary. The counter person has always inspected the case visually, and then asked me to lock up the gun case afterwards (I put the locked gun case in a suitcase that is checked). I've been asked to follow the suitcase to TSA and wait until TSA says I can go. I've also been told that I could not follow the suitcase to TSA, but TSA will call me on the intercom if they need me to open the gun case. I've never been asked by TSA to open the gun case.
Is disassembly necessary? No. The reason I disassemble is, when the case is x-rayed, I think a disassembled gun is more likely to appear safe to a screener (i.e., unloaded, safe condition to fly). It's not necessary, but I'm happy to take that extra step if that helps ensure I can go to the gate and get on the plane without additional hassle.