The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on February 17, 2012, 08:21:24 PM
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http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2012/02/minnesota-gun-rights-bill-under-attack!.aspx?s=&st=&ps= (http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2012/02/minnesota-gun-rights-bill-under-attack!.aspx?s=&st=&ps=)
HF 1467 contains three important firearm policy improvements:
Stand Your Ground:
HF 1467 would remove a person’s “duty to retreat” from an attacker, allowing law-abiding citizens to stand their ground and protect themselves or their family anywhere they are lawfully present. It would create a presumption that an individual who forcefully or stealthily enters or attempts to enter your home or vehicle is there to cause substantial or great bodily injury or death, so the occupant may use force, including deadly force, against that individual. It would also expressly allow an individual to use force, including deadly force, to prevent a forcible felony, and it provides protections against criminal prosecution and civil lawsuits when justifiable force is used.
Universal Recognition:
Currently, Minnesota only has reciprocal agreements with fifteen states and twenty-three states recognize Minnesota's permit to carry. Unfortunately, Minnesota’s Department of Public Safety has not sought out any additional reciprocity agreements. By adding the proposed language, Minnesota will recognize every state that offers a carry permit and drastically improve Minnesotans’ abilities to carry for self-defense in other states. The proposed language would also require Minnesota’s Department of Public Safety to enter in to reciprocity agreements.
Emergency Powers Reform:
The proposed language would prohibit any government agency from confiscating or regulating the lawful possession, carrying, transfer, transportation and defensive use of firearms or ammunition during a state of emergency, such as occurred in the wake of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Louisiana.
The original Bill contained a fourth item: To increase the valid period of a permit to acquire a handgun from one year to five years to match the Permit to Carry a Pistol. This was dropped because some Police Chiefs and Sheriffs felt that they would lose control if that happened.
If you are from Minnesota or have family in Minnesota, find your Senator and contact them! The Minnesota liberal media has launched a full frontal attack on this, and the liberal sheeple are ranting. Sadly, I have gun loving friends that are buckling, because they don't want to be labeled as an extremist or gun nut. In case you hadn't noticed, I wear the label "GUN NUT with pride. Please join me and fight for the passage of this Bill!
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Let's hope this passes!! It hardly seems fair that you can carry when you come to my house, but I can't when I come to your's. Hell, if I drank a keg of beer and had a good stiff wind at my back, I could probably piss into Minnesota from my front yard. VERY frustrating.
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Same boat here, TT, if'n I cross the Red River, I can't be carrying. Apparently there was this little fish and game kerfuffle some decades back, and ND won the court case, so MN won't recognize us here in NoDaker land. Or so I've been told.
ND needs one of those no retreat laws too.
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Only because you won't let us hunt waterfowl the first week of the season >:(
That's ok, I had to go get my Utah permit, because the Fighting Sioux won't recognize us either.
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Thanks, I'll go do this right now. In the Minnesota Senate the bill is S.F. No. 1357 - Castle Doctrine and Firearms Changes.
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Heard back from both my dudes this morning - Rep. Rod Hamilton (Majority Whip) and Sen. Doug Magnus, I also heard from Rep. Tony Cornish (author and leader of the charge) earlier last week. They all three feel that it will pass if the public pressure doesn't get too bad this week. We have that ugly blue streak that runs from Rochester through the Cities and up to St. Cloud, and they are very vocal and logistically close to the Capitol. Our state ILA guy isn't fired up about this, because he thinks it is a lost cause with Gov. Dayton and his veto pen. However, Hamilton, Magnus and Cornish are optimistic about the chances and dare Dayton to veto it.
The most important thing right now is for us to remain vocal and as in the face as the anti's are. The Star Tribune is giving the anti's ink for free, and of course "every law enforcement officer and every prosecutor in the State" are against this.
So nice to have a distraction from the arguments over a new stadium and taxing the rich.
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Heard back from both my dudes this morning - Rep. Rod Hamilton (Majority Whip) and Sen. Doug Magnus, I also heard from Rep. Tony Cornish (author and leader of the charge) earlier last week. They all three feel that it will pass if the public pressure doesn't get too bad this week. We have that ugly blue streak that runs from Rochester through the Cities and up to St. Cloud, and they are very vocal and logistically close to the Capitol. Our state ILA guy isn't fired up about this, because he thinks it is a lost cause with Gov. Dayton and his veto pen. However, Hamilton, Magnus and Cornish are optimistic about the chances and dare Dayton to veto it.
The most important thing right now is for us to remain vocal and as in the face as the anti's are. The Star Tribune is giving the anti's ink for free, and of course "every law enforcement officer and every prosecutor in the State" are against this.
So nice to have a distraction from the arguments over a new stadium and taxing the rich.
I think the dome should be turned into an indoor gun range!
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I think the dome should be turned into an indoor gun range!
Little known fact is that in its early years they did some State ATA shoots in the Hubert H. Humphrey Metro Dome ;D
If I remember correctly they left the football seats folded on the east side and shot from what would have been the third base line east into center and right field.
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Good News!
Should breeze through the House next week. As I read it the only change in the Senate was that they dropped the extension of the Permit to Acquire to five years (matching the Permit to Carry a Pistol rather than the annual renewal).
A little more emailing tonight, and then we get to see what Gov. Dayton chooses to do with it.
Minnesota: NRA-Backed Self-Defense Reform Bill Passes
in the State Senate
Today, the Minnesota Senate passed House Bill 1467 by a 40 to 23 vote. This important reform legislation, sponsored by state Senator Gretchen Hoffman (R-10) and state Representative Tony Cornish (R-24B), will now be sent back to the state House of Representatives for its concurrence, before being sent to Governor Mark Dayton for his consideration. The House vote on concurrence is expected to take place this Monday, February 27.
Accordingly, please contact your state Representative TODAY and urge him or her to vote to pass HB 1467 as amended in the state Senate.
To locate your state Representative and his or her contact information, please click here.
Thank you to those state Senators who voted to pass this important self-defense reform legislation.
HF 1467 contains three important firearm policy improvements:
Stand Your Ground:
HF 1467 would remove a person’s “duty to retreat” from an attacker, allowing law-abiding citizens to stand their ground and protect themselves or their family anywhere they are lawfully present. It would create a presumption that an individual who forcefully or stealthily enters or attempts to enter your home or vehicle is there to cause substantial or great bodily injury or death, so the occupant may use force, including deadly force, against that individual. It would also expressly allow an individual to use force, including deadly force, to prevent a forcible felony, and it provides protections against criminal prosecution when justifiable force is used.
Universal Recognition:
Currently, Minnesota has reciprocal agreements with only fifteen states and 23 states recognize Minnesota's permit to carry. Unfortunately, Minnesota’s Department of Public Safety has not sought out any additional reciprocity agreements. By adding our proposed language, Minnesota will recognize every state that offers a carry permit and drastically improve Minnesotans’ abilities to carry for self-defense in other states. This legislation would also require Minnesota’s Department of Public Safety to enter in to reciprocity agreements.
Emergency Powers Reform:
This legislation would prohibit any government agency from confiscating or regulating the lawful possession, carrying, transfer, transportation and defensive use of firearms or ammunition during a state of emergency, such as occurred in the wake of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Louisiana.
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Good luck!
We're in the process of a Castle Doctrine revision right now as well. We have one now but it's weak at best. It allows for personal defense but it doesn't yet eliminate possible prosecution for defending your life. They're trying to amend it to be more of a "No duty to retreat" law and stop any civil action if the shoot is righteous.
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Tomorrow, Wednesday, is now the day for the House to pass this on to the Gov. Dayton has indicated he is not happy about it, but there is a headline out there that he met with Rep. Cornish, the author, today about the Bill. That tells me that Gov. Dayton is at least considering signing it, and that he doesn't have his veto stamp warming up already.
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http://mankatofreepress.com/local/x2054920039/Dayton-experiences-Cornishs-unusual-office-in-gun-bill-conversation (http://mankatofreepress.com/local/x2054920039/Dayton-experiences-Cornishs-unusual-office-in-gun-bill-conversation)
The Free Press, Mankato, MN
Local News
February 29, 2012
Dayton experiences Cornish's unusual office in gun bill conversation
By Mark Fischenich The Free Press
MANKATO — With his controversial gun bill about to head to the governor’s office for a signature or a veto, state Rep. Tony Cornish of Good Thunder was quoted in a Twin Cities publication saying Gov. Mark Dayton could give him a call if he had any concerns.
“I didn’t say that,” Cornish said. “So I wrote the governor an email that I wouldn’t be so arrogant as to have you call me.”
Cornish also offered to visit the governor’s office to answer any questions about the gun bill, which includes an expansion of the situations where private citizens can use deadly force — a provision opposed by law enforcement groups.
“He wrote me back right away and said I’ll come over to your office,” Cornish said.
And Cornish’s office is famously unique. The retired game warden has a wide variety of stuffed birds and animals, including a wolf and a possum that hangs from the ceiling. And there are canoe paddles and animal traps and an artificial log campfire.
“We sat by my fake campfire,” Cornish said. “Gave him a piece of bear sausage and had a good time.”
The office is quirky enough that visitors to the Capitol stop by with their kids for a look, but Dayton took more interest in the family photos, according to Cornish. He showed the governor a photo of the German shepherd that shared his truck during 13 of his years on the job with the DNR, and Dayton showed photos on his cell phone of his beloved dogs of the same breed.
Cornish, who was an officer in the conservation officers union, mentioned that he has three relatives, including a son, in law enforcement unions and is skeptical of a constitutional amendment pushed by his fellow Republicans that would prohibit unions from forcing workers to pay dues.
“I talked to him about not being a big ‘right to work’ guy and that made him happy,” Cornish said.
They also talked about the gun bill, which passed the House 85-47 Wednesday night. Cornish pointed out that some changes were made — aimed at easing the concerns of law enforcement associations, although he predicted it wouldn’t alter their opposition.
Dayton described the meeting to the Minneapolis StarTribune but didn’t offer any hints about whether it changed his mind about the legislation, commonly called the “castle doctrine” bill.
“We have a good working relationship,” Dayton said. “He’s very thoughtful in his comments. I didn’t make any commitments one way or another.”
Dayton had previously promised Cornish that he would take the full three days a governor is allowed to study a bill before deciding whether to sign the gun bill or veto it.
“I intend to carry that out,” he told the StarTribune.
Cornish, who discounts many of the law enforcement objections to the bill, reminded Dayton of his own experience as a police officer, deputy sheriff and, most recently, Lake Crystal police chief.
“He talked about his own experiences, knocking on doors, knocking down doors, going into places,” Dayton said. “He brings that credibility, that he’s been in the real world.”
In the end, though, Cornish doesn’t expect he won the governor over. He recalled a Dayton speech to a convention of the Minnesota Peace Officers Association where he pledged to always take their concerns seriously.
“I expect we’re headed for a veto,” Cornish said.
If so, he won’t consider Tuesday’s encounter to be a waste of good bear sausage.
“You can’t take it personal,” he said.
In fact, he only has one regret stemming from the meeting.
“I thought it went real well, real cordial,” Cornish said. “The only dumb move I made was I didn’t get a picture of us sitting by the fake campfire.”
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Two items:
In the article above Mr. Cornish refers to having a son in law enforcement. His son is a State Trooper, and is the one that covered my little incident where I played NASCAR on HWY 169 - If you recall my Goldwing won and invading car was totaled. He also admired my 1911, the one I shower with, and fondled my LCP until the skeeters chased us both away.
Second - According to reports Gov. Dayton has until Tomorrow, Saturday, to act on this Bill. My message was sent to him last evening. The only good thing going for us is that the media is wrapped up in the stadium issue and ignoring this for the most part. Maybe he will act responsibly since there is little danger of the media hyping the anti view.
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Fingers crossed on this end. Hopefully you guys (and us) get it done.
I did a quick search on HF 1467 and stumbled across a cop forum that had NUMEROUS clueless LEOs saying it was such a bad law and people would be shooting over parking spaces or someone just trespassing cutting the corner of the yard. ::) Same old, same old...
I guess it never occurred to them that none of the other states that have had 'stand your ground' laws and no 'duty to retreat' for years have turned into bloodbaths. But what do us plain ol' ordinary folks know? They're cops dammit!
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VETO !!!
>:(
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Oh that just sucks!!! >:( >:(
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VETO !!!
>:(
Do they have the votes to override?
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Do they have the votes to override?
I haven't done the math, but it doesn't appear so. There has been no talk of override. It has been made clear that it will be back next year. As far as I am concerned they can drop the first part - expansion of castle to car, boat, camper, etc. That is the part that everyone is so wound up on, but the most important parts are really the recognition of other State's permits and protection from confiscation during times of emergency.
Under our current law there are four items that justify the use of deadly force, and the presence of fear for life or serious injury will override the possibility of escape when the reasonable man theory is examined. Citizens have not, and are not going to, go out looking for gun fights. They will only defend themselves if really needed.
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Do they have the votes to override?
Votes were 40/23 and 85/47, so they are five votes short in each chamber. Sadly it is not just a matter of picking up five votes each, because in an override situation many wimps will turn tail and run >:(
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Sounds like the unionized LEO's and troopers applied too much pressure over the citizenry.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/141497673.html
Dayton vetoes 'castle doctrine' self-defense bill
Posted by: Rachel E. Stassen-Berger under Minnesota governor, Gov. Mark Dayton, Minnesota legislature, Democrats, Republicans Updated: March 5, 2012 - 7:32 PM
By Jim Ragsdale
Gov. Mark Dayton vetoed the so-called "castle doctrine" self-defense bill on Monday.
The proposal, supported by the gun-rights groups and opposed by Minnesota's law-enforcement organizations, would have expanded the legal justification for citizens who use deadly force in threatening situations.
The bill, sponsored by Rep. Tony Cornish, R-Good Thunder, and Sen. Gretchen Hoffman, R-Vergas, was the top priority of the National Rifle Association and drew some DFL votes in addition to near-unanimous Republican support. The measure passed by votes of 40-23 in the Senate and 85-47 in the House.
It would have changed the legal definitions of self-defense for someone facing a serious threat in their homes, and would have expanded this "castle doctrine" to cars, motor homes, boats and even tents.
It would have done away with a person's duty to retreat when facing a threat in public places, which supporters called the "stand your ground" concept. It would also have legalized concealed-weapons permits issued by all states, regardless of their standards in granting permits, and limited the situations in which police can temporarily remove weapons from homes in volatile situations.
Law enforcement organizations strongly condemned the proposal, saying it could risk officers' lives.
Dayton made his veto by letter without commenting publicly.
In his veto letter, Dayton said, he had to honor the opposition of law enforcement.
"The MN Police and Peace Officers Association, the MN Chiefs of Police and the MN Sheriffs Association represent the men and woman who risk their lives every day and night to protect the rest of us. When they strongly oppose a measure, because they believe it will increase the dangers to them in the performance of their duties, I cannot support it," Dayton wrote.
Rep. Tony Cornish, a Republican from Good Thunder, said the opposition stemmed from the executives of law enforcement organizations "not the rank and file." He said that the measure may take some time to become law but it will be back.
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Sorry m58.
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More on Minnesota..
This is unbelievable, photo ID's should be required for voting!!!
((We're just so screwed!!))
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Yes M'ette, we are screwed, and not in a good way either >:(
This damn State has no problem telling us we need to jump through all kinds of hoops for our guns and for their use, even though they can't prove there is an issue, but they will not let us require a simple ID check to vote. Apparently it will be a burden on the poor and minorities. Excuse me, but I can't through a day of work in the Twin Cities without providing my photo ID to somebody to verify a check or credit card. How do these people with no identity get through life?
I think I have shared this before, but last year when I went to vote at our Township precinct I was given the wrong ballot. Two townships share the building, and our township is actually in three school districts and two soil and water districts. We live in the far SE corner of the township (1 1/2 mile from the east edge and 1 mile from the south edge - the township is six miles by six miles square), and the ballot I was given was for a resident in the far NW corner. Different school board, different soil and water representative, two referendums related to the area, and a county drainage ditch maintenance and improvement issue. No siree, we don't have a voting issue in this state >:(
The State of Minnesota still sends absentee ballot offers to our children who are residents of south central Kansas and south east South Dakota. They have been out of Minnesota since 2001 and 2004! Our daughter is still listed on the county register as a valid voter - she could walk in the door of the precinct, pick up a ballot, and vote ... that would be good, because she is so conservative she makes me look like a bleeding heart liberal.
The up side to the screwed up voting system is that Minnesota gets awards for very high voter turnout >:( Too bad we can't expand some common sense in this state!
Thanks M'ette for running my blood pressure up >:( I've got bullseye league tonight, and I think you just screwed me >:(
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I've got bullseye league tonight, and I think you just screwed me >:(
That said in a different way could mean you would shoot better..you know~~ more relaxed.. mellowed out... well~~ you know what I mean.. ;) LOL LOL ~~
just sayin....
I'll go wash my mind out with Clorox now.. :-[