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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: garand4life on March 02, 2012, 03:34:53 PM

Title: New gun big questions!
Post by: garand4life on March 02, 2012, 03:34:53 PM
Picked up a rifle and looking it over raises some big questions. It's a 1942 marked Lee Enfield No 4 mk 1 in .303 but the odd thing us it's stamped on the receiver, "US GOVERNMENT PROPERTY". any thoughts? I'm on my way home and I will put pictures but it's driving me crazy if I found something on the rare side. Help!

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Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: Timothy on March 02, 2012, 03:48:30 PM
They were probably used as training rifles by the US which would explain the markings.

An excerpt from wiki..

During the course of the Second World War, the No. 4 rifle was further simplified for mass-production with the creation of the No. 4 Mk I* in 1942, with the bolt release catch replaced by a simpler notch on the bolt track of the rifle's receiver.  It was produced only in North America, by Long Branch Arsenal in Canada and Savage-Stevens Firearms in the USA
Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: twyacht on March 02, 2012, 04:05:49 PM
The US did indeed have Enfields. Designated the M1917

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=131

Picture at mucho info at link.

Title: Re: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: garand4life on March 02, 2012, 04:12:49 PM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/a6f961a1-457c-ef13.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/a6f961a1-45b4-f4ef.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/a6f961a1-45db-c60b.jpg)

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Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 02, 2012, 04:22:15 PM
That is not a Model 1917 , which had a distinctive "dogleg" bolt handle and most definitely was not a Mauser derivative.
Also, the 1917 was not called the "American Enfield", it is referred to by the name of the arsenal that made them, Eddystone, they were also chambered in 06 for American service since we had boat loads of the stuff, those made for the Brits however were chambered in .303 which they had in abundance.
Some .303 Enfields were diverted to the US for use in "homeland security" Factory guards, Coast guard beach patrols etc. type mission were ammo would not be much of an issue
"

Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: twyacht on March 02, 2012, 04:27:44 PM
After seeing the pics, and still in .303 Tom is correct however, many were sent "over here" in .303, for a variety of reason, that Winchester, Remington, even Baldwin Locomotive looked at as America was lacking in the everyday infantryman's rifle...

The 30-06 conversions just made them more American friendly...

Seems you got the oddball.... ;)

Could be the P14 variant. Also some were exported to Honduras and remained in .303....

Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: garand4life on March 02, 2012, 04:55:03 PM
after sitting down with it, I noticed it has all 's' marked hardware. Bolt, receiver, trigger group and stock. So it looks to be all original. No import markings that I can find. And this has the adjustable sights out to 1300 yards/meters, which ever they were, instead of the double peep sight. Its in amazing condition with almost no finish wear. The receiver looks amazing for being 70 years old.
Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: Timothy on March 02, 2012, 05:01:27 PM
This might help..

http://www.enfieldrifles.ca/in2.htm
Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: garand4life on March 02, 2012, 06:50:16 PM
More pics
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NqDWozWwsCI/T1FpdYpbUFI/AAAAAAAABQ8/e8mfzy-xuCw/s640/IMG_9722.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tIpaOg7sv5A/T1FpcziucwI/AAAAAAAABQ4/U_HMEhdgkv8/s640/IMG_9723.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W8k4nZus8gQ/T1FpmHieHCI/AAAAAAAABRU/E0iiz3-RULI/s640/IMG_9725.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eASQqPCYlUk/T1FpjSdZgtI/AAAAAAAABRM/j7zyuiRowtE/s640/IMG_9726.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-49uueFN9c94/T1FpmwEtNiI/AAAAAAAABRc/it_vAH8_iAc/s640/IMG_9727.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eRVhXKOKK1I/T1FpqACqWYI/AAAAAAAABRk/TyC3ojOVdg0/s640/IMG_9729.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-C2klVKopABE/T1Fps8rKiII/AAAAAAAABRs/BiM0zTMRO4s/s640/IMG_9730.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GdhH3zWXEIg/T1Fptp56mLI/AAAAAAAABR0/AEiD0Xixxh0/s640/IMG_9731.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-v9_fCAnoX9I/T1FpulJiWkI/AAAAAAAABR8/dzm80qCAyLA/s640/IMG_9732.JPG)
Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 02, 2012, 08:01:48 PM
It wasn't actually in US use.
Found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_military_rifles#Rifle.2C_Number_4

During the Second World War, the British government also contracted with the Canadian and US manufacturers (notably Long Branch and Savage) to produce the No. 4 Mk I* rifle. US-manufactured rifles supplied under the Lend Lease program were marked U.S. PROPERTY on the left side of the receiver.

Yours is clearly marked on the left side of the receiver, (1st picture last post) No 4 Mk1*
Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: Timothy on March 02, 2012, 08:07:52 PM
It wasn't actually in US use.
Found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_military_rifles#Rifle.2C_Number_4

During the Second World War, the British government also contracted with the Canadian and US manufacturers (notably Long Branch and Savage) to produce the No. 4 Mk I* rifle. US-manufactured rifles supplied under the Lend Lease program were marked U.S. PROPERTY on the left side of the receiver.

Yours is clearly marked on the left side of the receiver, (1st picture last post) No 4 Mk1*
They were probably used as training rifles by the US which would explain the markings.

An excerpt from wiki..

During the course of the Second World War, the No. 4 rifle was further simplified for mass-production with the creation of the No. 4 Mk I* in 1942, with the bolt release catch replaced by a simpler notch on the bolt track of the rifle's receiver.  It was produced only in North America, by Long Branch Arsenal in Canada and Savage-Stevens Firearms in the USA


I posted that same thing four hours ago...sort of!
Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 02, 2012, 08:10:48 PM
I posted that same thing four hours ago...sort of!

True, but the listing you found did not explain the "US PROPERTY" marking so I figured it was worth posting.
Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: Timothy on March 02, 2012, 08:11:40 PM
True, but the listing you found did not explain the "US PROPERTY" marking so I figured it was worth posting.

OK!

Fine!

You win!

 :D
Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: twyacht on March 03, 2012, 06:13:18 AM
Remember Timothy,

The Google-Fu is strong with the Bogan.... ::)
Title: Re: New gun big questions!
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 03, 2012, 09:05:20 AM
Remember Timothy,

The Google-Fu is strong with the Bogan.... ::)


Sometimes.
Sometimes it's just luck.   ;D