The Down Range Forum
Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => The Best Defense on My Outdoor TV => Topic started by: sweet1911 on March 08, 2012, 08:05:05 PM
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Two people carrying a concealed weapon who do not know each other. Today people who carry concealed weapons legally are increasing in numbers so the chances of two people carrying concealed are increasing being in the same place when one of you might be in a bad situation being harassed or beginning assaulted. So what would you do if you were witnessing a assault that was starting to happen. You see a man and his family and there are one or two or more bad people threatening them and you see a weapon ? How to handle this should you stay back and watch as a witness phone 911. If you try to help that family the father might think you are part of that group assaulting him so he might shoot at you as well. (((It would be hard not to try and help that person out))).Possibly yelling out loud commands to stop the bad situation might make the father think you are there to help and not part of that gang of people. You may not even know that he the father is carrying if you are behind him so if you see something that justifies you to present your weapon and he turns around to see you now you just became a threat to him. Something to think about
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1. Call 911
2. Call out to the BGs that the cops have been called
3. Intervene only if the good guy goes down and the rest of his/her family appear to be unarmed and is in peril.
Check the laws where you live to see if this is even possible.
Also, pulling the weapon out without a clear threat to your (or someone else's life depending on the state and locale) is considered a crime in and of itself.
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What Path said,
How do you know it isn't a pair of under cover cops grabbing a pedophile ?
Unless you know for sure what you are seeing any active intervention by you shows extremely poor judgement.
Bunch of younger guys grabbing an older couple off the street ?
Like the Cops that picked up Whitey Bolger and his Girl friend ?
Do you really want to stand in front of a Judge and jury with nothing to say but "It seemed like a good idea at the time" ?
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Dial 911 as Path said. ;DBe a good witness. Take notes. Keep your distance. Throw grenades if need be. ;D
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Carrying a gun does not make you a cop. You must be very selective and judicious about its use or you will find yourself being unable to even own firearms again. The previous advice is your best bet in a situation like this.
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Whether I had a weapon or not I would still want to help that is just who I am ...I have absolutely no desire to play police...Yes making a phone call to 911 would probably be one of the first things I could do, but I still do not know if I could just stand there and watch a family get beat up, we know very well how long it can take for police to come to help it can be 5 minutes or 25 minutes. I have done quite a few stupid things in my life and I do not think helping somebody would be one of them. In the state I am in you are allowed to go to the defense of others if their lives are in danger." I'm well aware by doing so you had better be correct in your decision, but that would have to be the same decision I would make if my life was in danger. What would be the difference if you noticed a car accident you see a car starting to go on fire people unconscious inside you would not try to help even putting your life at risk to get those people out of that car before they burn alive, I do not see the difference wanting to help people who are in need
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I recall reading a story in the newspaper a while ago about an individual in a grocery store that was witnessing a knife attack on a woman employee in the store by, what turned out to be an estranged ex-husband. The witness, an armed man, drew his weapon and shot the woman's attacker, killing him. The woman survived in spite of several stab wounds. The man was not only not charged, but was commended for his actions. Had he not intervened the woman would be dead.
That is a difficult position to be in. Had it happened in Chicago, New York city, or our nations capitol, that good samaritan would probably still be in prison. Could you just stand there and watch that poor woman be stabbed to death?
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What would be the difference if you noticed a car accident you see a car starting to go on fire people unconscious inside you would not try to help even putting your life at risk to get those people out of that car before they burn alive, I do not see the difference wanting to help people who are in need
The car accident is an obvious, cut & dried situation and your actions are covered by "Good Samaritan" laws.
The "man in a scuffle" scenario can be anything but. Be a good witness, call 911, help out from a safe distance as much as you can.(verbal commands)
Keep the gun holstered. Your freedom may depend on it.
As Tom pointed out, Bunch of younger guys grabbing an older couple off the street? Like the Cops that picked up Whitey Bolger and his Girlfriend?
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Situation awareness is hard at times. My mentor taught me long ago that the best weapon is the one they don't see until after it is used. Set up or have your weapon cloaked and play the part of the good citizen. Calling 911, trying to sort out who is who and being the voice of reason. Many place where CCW are allowed, brandishing is not. Also having a second option such as pepper spray is a good way to not make yourself look like the person who is just itching to get in a gun fight.
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An undercover (plain clothed) Wilmington, NC Police officer was shot by a legally permitted CCW holder, exercising a warrant with back up and other LEO's in a prostitution/drug investigation.
It ended badly...When the "Good Citizen",...thought a woman was being assaulted by a "dude".....All the previous posts are correct.
Yes things happen fast, but keep your hero factor in check as a secondary. Remember, there has to be a direct threat to YOUR life, and if its not your direct family or friends....You better be be double sure....Hard to do as a non-LEO....
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A new thought occurred to me...
Given today's technology - what about shouting out (after "the police have been called") "you are being filmed"
While it might increase your danger - it might also help identify the BGs.
The 'mights' are there because I haven't thought this through yet...
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A new thought occurred to me...
Given today's technology - what about shouting out (after "the police have been called") "you are being filmed"
While it might increase your danger - it might also help identify the BGs.
The 'mights' are there because I haven't thought this through yet...
I don't know, Ralph. Now days, both the cops and the bad guys might head for you to be sure that video doesn't fall into the wrong hands...
I've thought about this for a bit...and the best thought I have is to make the 911 call and then announce.
"Police Officer. Identify yourself and drop your weapons."
Cops will tell you they are cops, bad guys will likely comply or prepare to run or attack you.
Downside is that you might be arrested for impersonating an officer of the law....but maybe the reason will get you off.
I put it out here to find out what other nasty things might happen that I haven't thought of.
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I believe that Massad Ayoob recommended shouting "Police" when in a situation like this,that way you could say that you were trying to get someone to call the Police... ;) ;)
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Something that is being missed here is that these actors are citizen carry permit holders with firearms. They are not law enforcement! This is the same area I believe is being missed in the George Zimmerman situation with his position in Neighborhood Watch.
When in doubt, Back away!
Don't lie, don't go into Steven Seagal mode, and remember that you aren't the Lone Ranger.
If you find yourself in a situation where another person with a weapon is an undercover officer, they will make sure you know who and what they are. That is part of being trained to be undercover. These officers know they are putting themselves in tough situations on more than one level, and as a permit holder we need to remember the limits of our authority and responsibility.
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Something that is being missed here is that these actors are citizen carry permit holders with firearms. They are not law enforcement! This is the same area I believe is being missed in the George Zimmerman situation with his position in Neighborhood Watch.
When in doubt, Back away!
Don't lie, don't go into Steven Seagal mode, and remember that you aren't the Lone Ranger.
If you find yourself in a situation where another person with a weapon is an undercover officer, they will make sure you know who and what they are. That is part of being trained to be undercover. These officers know they are putting themselves in tough situations on more than one level, and as a permit holder we need to remember the limits of our authority and responsibility.
I'm with sweet1911 on this one. I don't think I could back away and still look in the mirror to shave the next morning. Might be a good thing I have all yous to call for bail help if that doesn't work out for me.
I do like Mejer's post of what Mas recommended... Shout "Police" It should give you a good take on which side of the line the players are standing.