The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: twyacht on March 25, 2012, 05:03:40 PM
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GEORGE ZIMMERMAN AND TRAYVON MARTIN: WHAT WE DON’T KNOW
Posted: 23 Mar 2012 07:03 PM PDT
The death almost a month ago of 17-year old Trayvon Martin at the hands of appointed neighborhood watch leader George Zimmerman has become a cause célèbre that has even drawn the notice of our President, who notes that if he had a son he would probably look like Trayvon. I’m seeing some defending Zimmerman, and most demanding his head on a platter, and a whole lot of people who don’t understand how the justice system is geared to approach these things.
As I’ve said earlier in this blog, in answer to reader query, we don’t know enough about what happened to rush to judgment yet, whether that judgment is justified self-defense, murder, or manslaughter. The police have made it clear that there is evidence that has not yet been made public, and may not be put forth until the Grand Jury examines the case next month. Some issues:
The autopsy results, including toxicology screen, have not yet been released. If it turns out that the young man who died was fueled by drugs known to cause violent behavior, could that change our perceptions? That knowledge is not yet in our hands. (Reportedly, Zimmerman was not tested, and police indicate that he showed no signs of drug or alcohol impairment.) My advice to YOU if YOU’RE ever involved in a shooting: request to be taken to a hospital to have a blood sample and toxicology screen taken. A “negative for everything” result will prevent false allegations later that you were drunk or drugged-up when you pulled the trigger.
The death weapon was a Kel-Tec PF9 semiautomatic 9mm pistol. It has been reported that the gun was recovered with a full magazine and that only the chambered round had been fired. This is a condition we associate with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause that is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired. This would clearly change the shape of the case. But – WE DON’T KNOW YET.
Both men, according to initial reports, were “squeaky clean” in terms of their background. We now know, meh, not so much. There were allegations of domestic abuse against Zimmerman, and a conviction for resisting arrest, in his past. Young Mr. Martin was in the complex in the first place so his dad could straighten him out after being kicked out of school for a week…for what, we don’t know.
Pundits who don’t all seem to understand the concept are tying this shooting in to Florida’s Stand Your Ground law much more than they should. There is conflicting evidence/testimony as to whether Martin approached Zimmerman or vice versa in the penultimate moments before the physical fight that led to the fatal shot. There is, in short, not yet enough information for any of us outside the investigation to formulate a solid opinion.
Update: Turns out that the Trayvon Martin Facebook page mentioned here last night was the wrong Trayvon Martin; that has been deleted with my apologies, and thanks to those who flagged me to the error. Also, HuffPost reports that Trayvon had been suspended for chronic truancy, but another source notes that his school’s posted rules do not prescribe that length of suspension for that minor an offense. Meanwhile, the college George Zimmerman had been attending has suspended HIM, due to the current controversy.
My advice? Let’s all “stand our ground,” not participate in the rush to judgment, and wait for the facts and the evidence to become available to us 300 million jurors in the Court of Public Opinion.
http://backwoodshome.com/
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Please fwd. to the New Black Panther Party, and The New Black Liberation Militia, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Uncle Louie Farrakhan, and a host of others....
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George Will on Trayvon Martin: Remember ‘media,’ ‘well-known agitators’ reactions to Duke Lacrosse
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/25/george-will-on-trayvon-martin-remember-media-well-known-agitators-reactions-to-duke-lacrosse/ (http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/25/george-will-on-trayvon-martin-remember-media-well-known-agitators-reactions-to-duke-lacrosse/)
“But the problem is, of course, at this point, we all ought to remember something,” Will said. “The last time everyone in the media and certain well-known agitators got up on their high horses and galloped off in all directions was the Duke Lacrosse case and everyone was wrong.”
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+1 Ichiban, great point. Tiwana Brawley (sp),....comes to mind also.
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!!! THANK YOU MAS!!!!
We don't know much, other than politicians started dancing awfully early this time, (the very moderate-Jeb Bush and Reverend-Doctor Barry O).
Shepherd Smith has been kicking this Zimmerman guy in the teeth, and he doesn't know anymore than the rest of us.
Again, thank you Mas!!!
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There appears to be an extremely strong undercurrent of ill feelings (almost hate) in this country that have been brought to the surface. It would pay everyone to be extra vigilant this summer and especially around the November elections.
As the song says, it only takes a spark to get a fire going.
When and where the next spark comes from and how hot it will be is anyone's guess.
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For some folks racial harmony is bad for business.
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There appears to be an extremely strong undercurrent of ill feelings (almost hate) in this country that have been brought to the surface. It would pay everyone to be extra vigilant this summer and especially around the November elections.
As the song says, it only takes a spark to get a fire going.
When and where the next spark comes from and how hot it will be is anyone's guess.
I will correct you with my belief that today is worse than the late 60's. I was just into the age of understanding and confusion when the riots really got going in the time of "peace and love." The difference is that in the 60's we had leaders telling us that it was time to move away from the injustices of history, that we are all the same, and we can all get along on an equal level. However, groups of people led by radicals turned to violence in retribution rather than just blending into society. Today we have radical leaders making sure we know we are different, and that one group of Americans (evil rich whites) are still abusing the rest of the world.
Our sitting President is shamelessly working the racism and economic issues to create hate, mistrust, and confusion in our nation. I believe he wants to recreate the late 60's, so that he can institute Martial Law. I see this as a campaign plan where the Republicans are viewed as hateful and greedy, and the great leader that already received a Nobel Peace Prize for his message of hope will restore order to our world. Then, after the sheeple reelect him it will be Martial Law to restructure the runaway nation and avoid riots.
Are those black helicopters I hear circling?
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For some folks racial harmony is bad for business.
The Rev's Sharpton and Jackson come immediately to mind...
Ayoob has focused on the most important point: we don't know, yet.
It's entirely possible Zimmerman is not a racist--after all, his family is made up of Hispanic and black members. It's hard to hold racist feelings when the hated races are family members you love and cherish.
But, maybe he is a racist. After all, it has been postulated the Hitler may have had some Jewishness in his own family tree.
WE DON"T KNOW.
Until we do know, everyone should just stop any rush to judgement. If Zimmerman is guilty of a crime, he deserves to be punished within the limits of the law.
Equally, if he is not guilty, he does not deserve the treatment he has already received in the Lame Stream Media.
FWIW,
Crusader
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The Rev's Sharpton and Jackson come immediately to mind...
Ayoob has focused on the most important point: we don't know, yet.
It's entirely possible Zimmerman is not a racist--after all, his family is made up of Hispanic and black members. It's hard to hold racist feelings when the hated races are family members you love and cherish.
But, maybe he is a racist. After all, it has been postulated the Hitler may have had some Jewishness in his own family tree.
WE DON"T KNOW.
Until we do know, everyone should just stop any rush to judgement. If Zimmerman is guilty of a crime, he deserves to be punished within the limits of the law.
Equally, if he is not guilty, he does not deserve the treatment he has already received in the Lame Stream Media.
FWIW,
Crusader
If you listen to the 911 recording when the operator asked what race Mr. Martin is you will get a gut feeling. Mr. Zimmerman said he wasn't sure, and he sounded sincere. As race came up at other times I did not hear anything derogatory concerning any race.
The media and special interests continue to try and build on a foundation that is not there. At this time, if I were going to blame anyone or thing, I would go after Neighborhood Watch and their system.
I continue to try and keep an open mind as the facts continue to come out, but also as the real and true investigations take place outside of the media's twist.
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Here in MA there is a bill in the legislature to revise our Castle Doctrine to eliminate civil or criminal prosecution on the shooter if the shooting is clearly self defense.
They're already talking about this case as the reason NOT to allow that bill to proceed! Once again we fall victim to a perceived problem blown out of proportion (possibly) by the media. Why the PD is holding back on possible evidence that could make the case either way is unconscionable.
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Here in MA there is a bill in the legislature to revise our Castle Doctrine to eliminate civil or criminal prosecution on the shooter if the shooting is clearly self defense.
They're already talking about this case as the reason NOT to allow that bill to proceed! Once again we fall victim to a perceived problem blown out of proportion (possibly) by the media. Why the PD is holding back on possible evidence that could make the case either way is unconscionable.
I disagree. In this world of fast moving communications to release information on an incomplete investigation could harm the process.
What is unconscionable is our societies unwillingness to let the system work. There is a time for outcry, but we have not allowed enough time for an investigation, and no proof of a cover up yet. Time to take a chill pill!
The anti's need to remember that "stand your ground" or "the castle doctrine" or any other legislation will not protect him if he is found to be in the wrong. Mr. Zimmerman can claim it, but if he was unjustified there will be no protection from the criminal or the civil side.
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I disagree. In this world of fast moving communications to release information on an incomplete investigation could harm the process.
What is unconscionable is our societies unwillingness to let the system work. There is a time for outcry, but we have not allowed enough time for an investigation, and no proof of a cover up yet. Time to take a chill pill!
The anti's need to remember that "stand your ground" or "the castle doctrine" or any other legislation will not protect him if he is found to be in the wrong. Mr. Zimmerman can claim it, but if he was unjustified there will be no protection from the criminal or the civil side.
What you say is true in theory, but he has already been convicted in the Media without any evidence simply because the guy he shot was black.
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According to a video I watched on George Snufflupagus news program, according to his attorney and a close personal friend (who happens to be black), they're not releasing the information until a grand jury convenes in April.
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What you say is true in theory, but he has already been convicted in the Media without any evidence simply because the guy he shot was black.
And they ignored the fact that he is of mixed race with questionable white included. Don't you just hate playing the race card when all it does is create a push? However, the msm will never let something as minor as the facts stop their agenda.
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According to a video I watched on George Snufflupagus news program, according to his attorney and a close personal friend (who happens to be black), they're not releasing the information until a grand jury convenes in April.
As it should be!
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Chucky Schumer, " faithfully following the Darth Rahm, never let a crises go to waste," now wants a federal review of the Stand Your Ground Law.....Investigated by one of the most legitimate Departments in Washington D.C.
The Eric Holder Justice Dept.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/25/chuck-schumer-stand-your-ground_n_1378125.html?ref=mostpopular
snip
WASHINGTON -- Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) wants the federal government to take a closer look at the "Stand Your Ground" laws that are at the center of the Trayvon Martin shooting in Florida.
"I'm sending a letter to the Justice Department today to ask them to expand their investigation into the general application of these Stand Your Ground laws, whether they actually increase rather than decrease violence and whether they actually prevent law enforcement from prosecuting cases where a real crime has been committed," he said on CBS's "Face the Nation."
Schumer, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, also said he would like to see hearings about the laws on Capitol Hill.
"I think we should examine this law. They're all new," he added. "They've been passed very, very quickly. I think the states who pass them, if they find out the real facts, may decide to repeal them."
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Just keep stirring the pot Chucky,.......
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Hey Dip S .... chumer!!!
Get your head out of your lower waste elimination port!!!
Stand your ground laws are not at the center of this issue!!!
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And they ignored the fact that he is of mixed race with questionable white included. Don't you just hate playing the race card when all it does is create a push? However, the msm will never let something as minor as the facts stop their agenda.
I have heard one news report referring to Zimmerman as a white hispanic.
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http://arcticpatriot.blogspot.com/2012/03/must-read-on-zimmerman-and-treyvon.html
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/churchsign_21.jpg)
I posted earlier about the Treyvon Martin situation, and the "National Conversation About Race".
The "conversation" is nothing more than a one-way screaming session, directed at whites, full of ad hominem attacks and outright lies, and it is conducted by people who are quickly approaching the territory of being extremely dangerous.
You cannot stoke the furnace of racial animosity without serious blowback, people.
This is not politics, although some people seem to think it is.
The political theme is- "Blacks are under attack. Unite around the Black President."
The corollary is, "If you hurt or kill a black person in self-defense, you are racist."
This is not a game though. This stuff gets innocent people hurt. Or worse.
In order to facilitate a national conversation about race, here is an Examiner article THAT IS A MUST-READ.
The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.
It bears note as well that Zimmerman, a "multiracial hispanic" (shown below, next to Treyvon Martin) is over and over again portrayed as "White", and a white "wacist", to boot.
I have said it over and over again, and I will continue to repeat it.
People are stirring up racial animosities in this nation, and they are doing so deliberately and through the use of blatant LIES.
The only racist cowards in this nation (Eric Holder's words, not mine) are the people who scream "racism" every time it is convenient.
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It is all gonna boil down to how Zimmerman got so close to the kid.
Being suspicious and following the kid, even though the police said not to, is fine provided he does not engage.
If the kid was doing nothing illegal and Zimmerman deliberately approached the kid to hostilely engage him, Zimmerman should be due for a whole lot of scrutiny.
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The epitome of racists: The New Black Panther Party, and The New Black Liberation Militia, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Uncle Louie Farrakhan, and a host of others....
They are a group of idiots. Why aren't the Fed's investigating these asshats who are nothing but trouble makers?
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As any certain previous POTUS's can attest to, with natural leadership ability, could come out and make a plea for calm, peace, and the rule of law to follow through.
Denounce the bounty by the Black Panthers , denounce the threats of violence, and simply let the Grand Jury, State, and now Fed. investigators do their job,....
But not this POTUS,......no denouncement of threats of violence and death threats, (by the Black Panthers, Farrakhan, etc,...)
No calls for calm by the DOJ, or even state folks....
This is, as I posted, a Perfect Storm, a clusterf***, enabled by the media. I've been through the riots in Miami, AKA, the Liberty City Riots,...it's why we moved when I was a kid....The ol' man saw it coming and we bugged out.
Think of the politics, not the issue at hand,...that will fuel the next move....And if the Grand Jury acquits Zimmerman,,prepare for L.A. County Riots times 10....
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This president (little p) knows exactly what he's doing! It's all scripted, part of the plan!