The Down Range Forum
Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => The Best Defense on My Outdoor TV => Topic started by: Bigdonut74 on March 26, 2012, 03:47:40 PM
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I would like some suggestions on moving through a house with a pistol. I will need to move to my daughter's rooms on the other side of the home to collect them or bunker there. The problem is a low or compressed ready puts the muzzle at the high chest or head of the kids if I run into them. The alternatives: movie style by my head or straight down along my leg. If I have an AD the kids are safe but I'll be deaf or I send a 124gr +P into the ceramic tile next to my bare feet. Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks,
Chris
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No one has ever suggested this, that I know of, and it is an extra step but electronic ear muffs seem like a good idea to me! I agree that the LR is not ideal for the reason you state but if you are using a weapon mounted light/laser you will not be at LR. If you are using a hand held light you will have to work on a position that is comfortable to you and allows use of the HHL. I'm not sure what that would be for me!
FWIW
Richard
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It all depends on whether you are using a weapon-mounted light, like Ellis noted.
I do not use a mounted light and sometimes use a "modified" low-ready where the muzzle is somewhat more depressed and canted to my left.........
Similar, but with the gun more canted than in the photo below.
(http://content.ll-0.com/valhalla/word_images/3968639_image002.jpg?i=051005200821)
http://www.imakenews.com/valhalla/e_article000390113.cfm?x=b11,0,w
Attached is a photo of a grip I sometimes use when indoors.
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Personally, I don't like a low ready--especially when moving in a house. Depressing the muzzle when the possibility of confronting a threat at extreme close quarters leaves you vulnerable to having your hands blocked. It also leaves your head completely exposed and puts your hands in a poor position to defend if you had to.
I prefer a weapon retention position with the gun indexed along the pectoral muscle and the left hand touching my forehead just above my left eyebrow. That creates a solidly braced "triangle" with my arm that keeps my elbow at shoulder level and creates a strong shield against the most likely close-distance strikes I'd face: forehand blows to the head or neck from a right-handed attacker. If I had a flashlight, I'd use the same position with the light in my left hand. That allows me to maintain a guard and search freely with the light while maintaining good muzzle discipline and weapon retention.
If you had to pivot past a person while in the weapon retention position, raise your elbow as you do to point the muzzle at the ground. This is similar to a one-handed "Sul" position, but does not force you to bend your wrist. It's also the beginning motion of reholstering the gun.
I hope this helps.
Stay safe,
Mike
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Good points for compressed high ready, but after practice I prefer low ready. I will practice the compressed high ready again based on MJ's comments. However, my experience is that the same issues with low ready affect compressed high ready. The difference is that compressed high ready put more of my body in jeopardy when contacted by attacker. Low ready exposed less of my vital areas to my own gun if surprised by the bad guy.
I find the forum difficult to go into all areas concerning issues, but it is good for small exchanges.
My two main points based on your initial comment is to stay away from the "movie style" with the muzzle up, and stay away from hearing protection. Beyond that, gather all the information you can, take classes, practice, practice, practice, and stay open to instruction.
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I have a set of amplified era muffs that actually enhance what you can hear going on inside the house....it is an extra step, and something else to have to remember though.
Thanks for the valuable input, MJ, I was really hoping to hear your take......your method is definitely something I will look at for my self...... With my boys grown and out of the tent, house clearing at night is not a main issue for me any longer....but it is still good to know several different defensive positions as we never know what may arise in this volatile world.
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That is the kind I was talking about Peg. Being that I am half deaf they are easier to get on/in than hearing aids!
Richard
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That is the kind I was talking about Peg. Being that I am half deaf they are easier to get on/in than hearing aids!
Richard
My uncle had both his hearing aids go out and had to send them in for repair. He uses a pair of the Howard Leight muffs, like I use, in place of his hearing aids. If a person keeps them staged by the bed, as I do, along with the gun and light, it is just one extra step to don them if you are awakened by a 'bump' in the night.
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Put the muffs, spare mags, hand light, cell phone, plastic tie cuffs and anything you like in a compartmented bag you can hang around your neck with a strap to put around your body to keep it close.
Only one thing to remember, and you can equip what you need as you move. A photographers type vest miight work for you too.
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We were always taught to go to a high ready when clearing a building. One of the other advantages of low or high ready over"hollywood" clearing is that if an attacker gets to you and gets a hold of your weapon it is much easier to get a shoot off and its pointed at them not the ceiliing.
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I guess I am lucky because when I wake up for whatever reason I am pretty much WIDE AWAKE and there is enough light from outside to help me see! That is good because I can suit up and go ASAP if I hear that BUMP (and with 4 cats...call me Haz jr. -LOL-that happens a lot!). Only trouble is, I have a B...H of a time getting back to sleep.
Richard
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Good points for compressed high ready, but after practice I prefer low ready. I will practice the compressed high ready again based on MJ's comments. However, my experience is that the same issues with low ready affect compressed high ready. The difference is that compressed high ready put more of my body in jeopardy when contacted by attacker. Low ready exposed less of my vital areas to my own gun if surprised by the bad guy.
Just to clarify, what I prefer is not a compressed high ready--it's a weapon retention position with an established guard. I am not a fan of the compressed high ready.
Stay safe,
Mike
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Just to clarify, what I prefer is not a compressed high ready--it's a weapon retention position with an established guard. I am not a fan of the compressed high ready.
Stay safe,
Mike
Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for the clarification/correction!
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What's also important and has been posted about before, is actively engaging your family in the scenario...What happens if? Code words, for the kids to get low, stay put, or a plan of your own choosing, but involve them like a fire drill at school. They will remember if God forbid a window breaks or door is kicked in at 3:28 a.m....
Depending on your housing, apt. condo, single family, will determine a course of action...Know your house in the dark. It's a big advantage the potential BG won't have. Know your safe lines of fire utilizing exterior walls, hallways, areas away from windows, or thinner walls if in an apt. situation.
In essence, recon your house, involve your family in the direct steps needed in a crises situation. (Age matters, but if the kids are old enough to know a fire drill,)....
Scope your house in the middle of the night, identify vulnerable traps, have a back up plan...(Wife with a 12 gauge works well),..but think it through, explore the goods and bads, and in your specific home environment, you will see it.
All the best.
tw
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Watching Best Defense this evening revealed something very important to me: There is no single best way. Listen to MJ and MS as they go things. A lot of words that tie to situation, location, personal skill level, etc. If I see the show again later I will quote some of the words used, but it caught my attention that they were not saying "do this, and this only."
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Thanks for all the input. I have some stuff to try now. I like MJ's high retention suggestion, one handed along the pectoral. I can angle up over the kid's heads and still keep the muzzle a reasonable distance from my face. I have a Surefire in my free hand that I could fend with and I run lasers so I can actually accurately engage from this position. Time to get out the Nerf guns and work it out. Much thanks.
Chris