The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: thecooler on March 27, 2012, 09:09:52 PM
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Since I don't reload, I am thinking of buying some .38 special bulk ammo, but the bullet is a lead semi wadcutter. I figure that would be great for target practice, but is it really an ammo that could be used for self defense too?
I carry Winchester silver tips and also have a box of Hornady self defense ammo as well. But, as Michael talks about being prepared, I think that a 2nd Obama term, means we better be stocked on supplies.
Any suggestions? Stock up on those wadcutters or buy less but a jacked hollow point self defense ammo?
Thanks!
Chad
Horn Lake, MS
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Any suggestions? Stock up on those wadcutters or buy less but a jacked hollow point self defense ammo?
Yes ;D
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A .357 hole is deadly. In this economy and political climate I would stock up on volume of reliable. Buy what you can.
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I wouldn't use the LSWC for sd but for practice, the more the better! Your choice for sd ammo is wide open. The WW st is good as is the Hornady. Whatever you decide on get several boxes. Also, write on the box that it is your sd load. Should anything happen, the police know that the remainder of the box can be used for testing. Might save some grief.
FWIW
Richard
PS: Don't remember where I read that suggestion, but I mark my ammo now.
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The only time I might suggest using LWC for home defense is IN THE HOME if you have a particular situation and you have limited ammo choices. For instance, if you live in an apartment, home with thin walls and close neighbors, or lots of kids with standard partitions between you and them, you might consider the LWC because penetration through walls will be less likely. (Notice I didn't say "unlikely", just "less likely"). The noise and the pain of SWC wounds may not stop a perp, but it will most likely slow them down or chase them away.
My old home was an OLD home with close neighbors, so I was concerned about overpenetration, and in NJ JHP is a no-no, so we went with straight lead flat point bullets. We figured lead is more likely to deform going through a wall than ball. We still didn't use reloads...I went around and found factory rounds in the calibers we keep. I doesn't cost much and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than frangible ammo.
Now that we've moved into a home on a half acre, we might rethink the whole over penetration problem.
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Buy as much practice ammo as possible. Chances are, most self defense situations you will find yourself in will be at very close range. The difference in point of impact at close range will be unnoticeable between your carry and practice ammo. I will always fall on the side of more practice over bullet design.
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I will say it again, but this time I will preface it a little:
High tech self defense rounds are a great tool. We all love them and most of us not only use them, but we have our favorites that we will not leave home without. However, there comes a time when quantity rules. Good reliable ammunition (cycles and fires every time in your gun) is what matters. Since the invention of firearms plain old lead balls have been killing millions in all types of conflicts. In this time of ammunition shortages, don't get wrapped up in gimmicks - no matter how good and legit they may be. After all, a .357 hole is a .357 hole.
Get what you can. 2,000 of good wadcutter in the gunroom is better than 150 rounds of Critical Defense on back order! And remember, there are people carrying .22lr, .32acp, .380acp, and 9mm Luger for self defense. Regardless of their technology, your .38spl with wadcutter will out gun them any day as long as yours fires reliably.
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Keith loads...
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While a 158 grain lead semi wad cutter (better known as the FBI Load) or a Full Metal Jacket round may penetrate 18 to 28 inches thru four layers of denim and absolutely reach a vital organ, the bullet does not expand and therefore the energy is not completely transferred into the attacker. We have all heard stories about someone getting shot and they didn't even know they were hit? That would be a Full metal Jacket Round. It simply blazed right thru them. Moreover, upon exit this round still has plenty of energy and is by no means inert. This leaves a greater chance of sending a stray round into a son or daughters room even after hitting the target. So for me, this is not practical. The less chance I have of hitting an innocent person while still stopping an attack is a win! That is common sense that I can live with. I say these rounds are better spent at the range or on four leggers. Not for personal defense.
http://www.ballistics101.com/personal_defense.php
I would still get all I can, while I can.
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Thanks for all the comments and suggestions guys! It helps getting other shooters take on things.
I ve decided to go on and pick up the semi wadcutters, just to have on hand. I agree M58, a .357 hole is till a .357 hole and as Mr. Bane says, Nobody wants to leak, and they may leak a lot with more ammo to throw at them!
excellent point twyacht. Once I have the bulk ammo, I think I'll just pick up a box or 2 of self defense ammo each week, just to make sure I have plenty on hand.
Again, I appreciate all the input!
Cheers!
Chad
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If you are shooting them out of a small revo with a 2" barrel, the SWC may be a better choice than a JHP.
The JHP needs speed to work which is hard to achieve in snubbies.
I use an old CorBon load that is a 158+p SWCHP in my snub. If it doesn't expand, it's still a 357 sized hole.
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While I was in the Air Force, pilots would carry .38 Smith and Wesson snubbies with 18 wad cutters. I am hearing, though it has not been confirmed, that they now carry Glocks?
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When I worked with the late Jim Cirillo on several instructional videos, he explained that after his first gunfight on the NYPD Stakeout Unit, he switched from the issue 168 gr RNL to full wadcutters. The reason was that two of the first three rounds he fired that hit the head of the first perp failed to penetrate the skull. He carried wadcutters for a while before switching to Super-Vel hollow points, but still liked wadcutters because of their "cookie cutter" behavior on bone. He also handloaded them upside down to take advantage of the shallow hollow in the base of the bullet for expansion.
He later developed an amazing round that was basically a solid copper wadcutter with a slot (just like the slot for a flat-bladed screwdriver) in the face. The slot accepted a plastic insert with a round nose to allow the round to feed in an auto. The plastic flew off when the round left the barrel and the slot acted like a hollow point. Rather than mushrooming in all directions, it peeled into two huge petals. In an article he did years ago (I think for Handguns magazine), he showed he was regularly getting .45 rounds to expand to more than an inch across.
He was an amazing man and an incredible shot. I miss him.
Stay safe,
Mike