The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: AE3007H1 on March 27, 2012, 09:40:30 PM
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This weekend my M&P9 failed to extract 2 times while shooting TulAMmo steel case. Has anyone had any similar failures? I see that Apex tactical makes an extractor upgrade. Anyone have one of these? I have their forward set sear competition trigger kit and the RAM. Both are top notch.
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First get rid of the TulAmmo steel cased stuff. I'll bet your extractor will love you if you do.
Pecos
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Agreed... I wouldn't worry much on two incidents with steel casings unless it persists with everything.
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I have put aprox 2000 rounds through this particular gun consisting of factory brass cased, handloaded brass, and finally Hornady and TulAmmo Steel case ammo. I have never had a problem with extracting until then and it was 2 the same day. I have since removed the extractor and ultrasonic cleaned the entire gun after a COMPLETE brake down. I can find no abnormal wear on the extractor or its' pin. It had been a little over 1000 rounds since I have removed the extractor and cleaned behind it. I am thinking that this may have been the culprit. I can't help but think that there must be some problem with the OEM M&P extractor for Apex to make an upgrade kit.
I am aware of the perils of running steel cased ammo. I do so only when I am running my "run-n'-gun" coarse that I have set up at my range. The cheap skate/reloader in me cannot keep from walking through the woods searching the ground until I find the brass and that sometimes takes for ever or I waste a lot of time looking for brass that is never to be found. Which in turn pisses me off that I couldn't find it. haha So when I do this type of shooting I use steel cases so I can leave them where they fall and not worry about it. haha
Another item for you M&P guys. I have the older version that sports the sear block with the smaller spring and plunger. I have been told to upgrade this to the larger sear spring, plunger, and proper sear block to combat "sear flutter" or "sear bounce". I cannot positively say that I have had a problem with this as of yet. Any thoughts on this? FYI I do have the Apex Tactical Froward Set Sear kit, competition spring set from Brownells, and the Apex Ram.
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Russian ammo in an American pistol? I was chastised here for running Wolf ammo in my Sig556....back in 08....For some it works, for some it doesn't....
Considering my Sig will shoot "anything" all day but Wolf,....it might be something to test with a mag of a known working rd. and the Tula....If it sings with one and not the other,.....well......... ::)
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I will do so the next range day. It is very possible that the harsher steel cases could be the only ones with a problem. Thing is that it has had at least 500-600 of them (steel cases) run through it with no problems except for an occasional dead primer.
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I read somewhere in a Combat Handguns article,..that steel can wear on an extractor more than brass. After 500-600 of them steelers, "working" for you, it may have more wear on it, and possibly be the issue.
Can you run it up to a local gun shop and compare it with a NIB one? Maybe there is a difference.
I'd try the mag test first.
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Another item for you M&P guys. I have the older version that sports the sear block with the smaller spring and plunger. I have been told to upgrade this to the larger sear spring, plunger, and proper sear block to combat "sear flutter" or "sear bounce". I cannot positively say that I have had a problem with this as of yet. Any thoughts on this? FYI I do have the Apex Tactical Froward Set Sear kit, competition spring set from Brownells, and the Apex Ram.
I've not had a problem with any of my 4 M&Ps (2 - .45's, 2 - 9mm's) and they are all small plungers/springs. Two have custom sear jobs, one has the Apex defensive carry kit and one had the competition kit.
If I was concerned about it, I might do a major tear down once in a long while and make sure that the plunger/spring/hole is clear of any muck.
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ske1eter, do you have the full kit that includes the replacement trigger? or just the spring/sear kit.
twyacht, I will do so today or tomorrow "make the comparison"
Either way, I have decided to go ahead and go with the Apex extractor kit and upgrade my sear housing, spring, and plunger. After all, even if there is no problem "per-say" with my gun now as it stands.. The fact that a doubt has entered the equation is not good. One MUST have 100% confidence in the tools that they will employ to protect themselves and families. Peace of mind is worth a lot in a confrontation. If you do not have 100% confidence it could cause you to be more timid in a violent situation. This can be sensed by the perpetrator and cause things to escalate. If you do have 100% confidence it will promote your boldness in the confrontation and the chances of the perpetrator backing down due to you attitude and decisive actions go up, thus the chances of you having to shoot go down as well.
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The Apex kits are awesome. But when it comes to the Tula ammo, I'd call Apex and ask them before you spend the money on a new extractor. They might tell you to forget it, since my bet is the problem is your ammo, not the pistol. As to the action, though, go ahead and get the Apex upgrade. I installed the Duty Carry Action Enhancement Kit in my full size .45 and the difference was just indescribable. The trigger is now crisp breakung with a 5.25 lb pull and clearly tangible reset and has elicited oohs and aahs from people at the range who've tried it. My accuracy has leaped like I would never have believed. Try it. You'll like it.
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Sorry for the long absence. In my humble opinion, if the relatively soft steel used for making these cases for ammo harms one's firearm, one should think long and hard about the quality of steel used in their gun. Now that doesn't include issues with varnish on the cases.
The problem was never replicated and I have run nearly 2500 more rounds through it since then of all different types, close to half being steel.
I did start having sear flutter. A condition when the sear does not catch the striker when the slide cycles. You get a viable round chambered but just mush for trigger. The older m&P version's sear block is the cause. Once you lighten up the trigger this can present itself. The solution is simple, you change to the newer sear block that has a larger & stronger sear spring. Cost under $40
Thanks guys.. . I put many videos on topics such as this on my YouTube channel: TeamKLR2bar
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