The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on April 02, 2012, 10:55:48 AM
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Just for curiosity, and planning for the future I'm looking for a source for a quality single power scope with a mil - dot reticle.
I'm thinking of 300 to 500 yards so around 4X.
Any one know of one besides those Russian scopes ?
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http://www.midwayusa.com/product/950843/bushnell-elite-3200-tactical-rifle-scope-10x-40mm-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte
It's a little higher power than you're after, but I've heard nothing but good about this Bushnell 3200 Elite Tactical Model. I'm thinking about getting one to try out on one of my AR's. I have several of the 3200 Elite Tactical Models in 5-15X, but they are a bit too large for an AR type rifle. Bushnell's Mil-Dot is easy to use. They give you a little booklet with the scope that's perfect to keep in the case with your rifle.
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Had one of these Truglo 4 power scopes on my AR:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/633450/truglo-tru-brite-xtreme-tactical-rifle-scope-4x-32mm-red-and-green-illuminated-mil-dot-matte-with-weaver-style-rings (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/633450/truglo-tru-brite-xtreme-tactical-rifle-scope-4x-32mm-red-and-green-illuminated-mil-dot-matte-with-weaver-style-rings)
(http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/633/633450.jpg)
The Truglo Tru-Brite Rifle Scope is specifically designed for tactical applications. Solid, one-piece aluminum construction, scratch resistant finish and 1/4 MOA coil spring finger adjustable windage and elevation adjustments add to the durability of this scope. Multi-coated lenses for exception light transmission in all conditions and the nitrogen filled tube makes it water, fog and shockproof. Includes a limited lifetime warranty.
Technical Information
Tube Diameter: 1"
Adjustment Click Value: 1/4 MOA
Adjustment Type: Click
Exposed Turrets: No
Finger Adjustable Turrets: No
Turrets Resettable to Zero: No
Zero Stop: No
Turret Height: Low
Fast Focus Eyepiece: No
Lens Coating: Fully-coated
Warranty: Limited lifetime
Rings Included: Yes, Weaver-style
Sunshade Included: No
Sunshade Length: N/A
Lens Covers Included: Yes
Power Variability: Fixed
Min power: 4x
Max power: 4x
Reticle Construction: Wire
Reticle: Mil-Dot
Illuminated Reticle: Yes
Battery Type: CR2032 3V (1)
Holdover reticle: No
Reticle Focal Plane Location: 1st
Parallax Adjustment: No
Finish: Matte
Water/Fogproof: Yes
Shockproof: Yes
Airgun Rated: No
Objective Bell Diameter: 39.1
Ocular Bell Diameter: 42.42
Eye Relief: 5.5"
Max Internal Adjustment: 30 MOA
Exit Pupil Diameter: 8mm
Weight: 13.1 oz
Field of View at 100 Yards:
22.5' @ 4x
Dimensions, in inches unless otherwise stated:
A: 9.8
B: 3.8
C: 1.6
D: 1.06
E: Not listed
F: Not listed
G: 39.1mm
H: 42.42mm
Worked well for me.
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Tom... if price is not an object... my old Trijicon 4x32 ACOG (TA01) (a Desert Storm vet) will shoot 4" at 400m on a 16" 5.56 RRA flat top...it has the bullet drop compensation for a 55grain and stadia lines that subtend 19" at respective distances, so half a stadia line is about 10" of wind correction...was not trained on a MilDot system, so is much quicker for me to use the bullet drop and stadia lines for long distance targets
just obtained a new 4x32 with red chevron (TA31), but haven't shot it as much... bullet drop is calibrated for 62grain
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I wish there were more choices in fixed power scopes.
I lucked out and got one of the last Nikon Monarch's in 6x from my .338 Federal. I'd probably buy another one or two if I could find the NIB.
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I've got a Tasco Pronghorn on my 30-06 (fixed 3x) that works fine.
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I have a few Burris and they are good. Being domestic their customer service is really quick (blew a reddot apart on my 500, and they stood behind it ... As long as I promised not to put it back on that gun). I am hearing some good things about Brunton, but I don't have any first hand experience, friends with experience, with them.
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Thanks for the replies.
Les, the 5.56 BDC is a dis qualifier since I would want to put it on a .308.
As long as I know they are available I can plan for the future.
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For 7.62x51, see if Springfield is still selling their 6x40 scope - I have one on my M1A.
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Thanks for the replies.
Les, the 5.56 BDC is a dis qualifier since I would want to put it on a .308.
As long as I know they are available I can plan for the future.
Tom, inquiring minds want to know. What .308?
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Tom, inquiring minds want to know. What .308?
Winchester snicker ;D ;D
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Tom, inquiring minds want to know. What .308?
Thinking either AR or M 1A.
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Tom... had an M1A and currently a 16" AR10...if you have good eyes and can shoot open sights, the classic M1A is fun... if you plan on adding optics, go with the Picatinny rail on an AR style....Armalite uses proprietary magazines, and they are not that expensive (5 for $150 or so IIRC) some manufacturers use FAL metric mags or M14 mags...both the Armalite and Springfield have pretty good triggers....I shoot mostly AR style carbines so that is what I chose...
the AR10 got the old 4x32 ACOG, and haven't shot it past 100m yet...think I'll add a full float tube to it, so it matches the other carbines in the safe....as you commented earlier the stadia lines may not match perfectly , but can be used to approximate elevation...I'll gain a little bit of correction if I mentally convert the meter distances to yards (I think)
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This is a project I'm thinking through for the unforeseeable future.
I like the AR's "drop free" magazines, and simplicity.
on the down side, if you are using a sling supported position a tight sling will flex the barrel.
The M-1A on the other hand allows you to switch between sling supported, or sand bags with out changing point of impact because the sling attaches to the stock, not the barrel.
Otherwise, I have no real preference between the 2.
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A free float tube solves the problem of barrel flex with a tight sling.
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A free float tube solves the problem of barrel flex with a tight sling.
How so ?
Isn't it still attached by the receiver,/ barrel joint ?
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AR forend full float installation...
one installation (ARMS) is to remove the spring loaded delta ring from the factory barrel nut, and sandwich the forend (M1913 rails) to the flat of the barrel nut
others replace the barrel nut with one that is threaded forward so the forend can screw on
others have the barrel nut typically chemically glued to the tube and the whole tube is threaded on
they do mount to the front of the receiver.... since the sling swivels attach to the tube, no lateral pressure is applied to the barrel, and there are no bearing points in contact with the barrel forward of the barrel nut so there is no "gooseneck" pressure applied as the bullet travels thru the barrel ...
my first A1 with a clip on GI bipod would "bend" about 2' at 200m
my current 16" flat top with full float is pretty consistent with moa groups out to 400m.... the barrel is pretty stiff for its short length
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AR forend full float installation...
one installation (ARMS) is to remove the spring loaded delta ring from the factory barrel nut, and sandwich the forend (M1913 rails) to the flat of the barrel nut
others replace the barrel nut with one that is threaded forward so the forend can screw on
others have the barrel nut typically chemically glued to the tube and the whole tube is threaded on
they do mount to the front of the receiver.... since the sling swivels attach to the tube, no lateral pressure is applied to the barrel, and there are no bearing points in contact with the barrel forward of the barrel nut so there is no "gooseneck" pressure applied as the bullet travels thru the barrel ...
my first A1 with a clip on GI bipod would "bend" about 2' at 200m
my current 16" flat top with full float is pretty consistent with moa groups out to 400m.... the barrel is pretty stiff for its short length
OK, understood .
I'm not really interested in using a bipod, however, I want to ask about the bend you experienced with yours.
1) Was it attached to the stock, or the barrel ?
2) was it consistent that you could allow for with scope settings, or did it vary depending on shooting position ?
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Tom... the barrel bending was on my first AR about 1984, and I usually clipped it on between the legs of the front sight tower...it was a thinner barrel AR pre HBAR... we shot on a metallic silhouette range, and shot 10" plates at 200m...all I had for a scope was the Colt 3x on the carry handle, but I could watch the bullet strike from below the rail when the rifle was resting on the forearm, to over to top of the target when pressure was applied to the bipod...never really did any scientific study of the sling, it was a standard factory item, and always thought it was attached in the wrong place.... I traded that rifle in on my first M1A, and ruined a beautiful piece of walnut forend when I went prone with a Harris bipod attached and broke out the wood.... shot the M1A iron sights only... did not shoot much with slings in the early years, as most matches were were relatively close, or had good support positions
my current game rifle (carbine) is fitted with a Knights vertical grip that I use all the time as a monopod, but it is attached to a lone rail on the bottom of the full float tube... I had a good run at the 2009 Ft Benning 3gun sniper stage with a 12th place finish, using a hasty sling and the monopod...the really tough shots at Ft Benning are the standing, unsupported head shots at 75yards... the sling was designed by a friend, and is a 3 point that allows you safely drop the carbine and transition to a pistol if necessary....It falls across your chest without pointing at anything important... I attached the sling with an Uncle Mikes sling swivel to the left side of the full float tube ....for local matches, my short range carbine does not have a sling, too much opportunity to snag it on things, and we shoot awfully close distances on pistol ranges
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Thanks Les.
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Tom, I think BSA makes a Tactical Weapon series 4x30 with a Mil-Dot reticle. Not sure about the quality.
So where along the line I heard that a lot of scope manufacturers mil-dot scopes are not a true mil-dot. Might be something to check out before you purchase.
I vote for the M1A, but I'm old school and like blued steel and wood, plus I think that the M1A is the epitome of what a battle rifle should be.
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With the M21, Standard/ NM and SOCOM versions you have one action , one magazine and one load between your precision rifle, competition service rifle, and brush gun.