The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Hazcat on May 01, 2012, 08:07:34 AM

Title: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: Hazcat on May 01, 2012, 08:07:34 AM
300 AAC Blackout Chambering Cancelled:

Some time ago, Savage announced it would be chambering the Model 10 Precision Carbine in 300 AAC Blackout. Since that time, we have tested many variants of this cartridge in various barrel lengths and rates of twist. This exhaustive testing left us quite unsatisfied with the accuracy we were able to get from the subsonic loads in this chambering. Accuracy with the lighter, faster loads in this caliber was actually quite good. But we believe the real value in this cartridge lies in the use of subsonic loads for suppressed rifles. Therefore we have decided to scrap the project.

It is our understanding that pushing these heavy, slow bullets presents challenges not found in typical loadings and that our experience is not unique. Subsequently, many in the industry have simply adopted a lower standard for accuracy for these subsonic loads. While this does seem reasonable and we don't criticize any in our industry that have taken this approach, it just won't work for Savage.

Our brand was built on accuracy and we are too protective of our reputation for building the most accurate factory rifles available. We would rather walk away from this opportunity than sell a product that requires an explanation.

http://www.savagearms.com/
Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 01, 2012, 09:02:25 AM
I'm not really surprised.
The .300 Blk Out was specifically designed to maximize features of the AR.
The fact that it did not work as well in a bolt action isn't a big surprise.
Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: billt on May 01, 2012, 09:52:34 AM
If you look at the large, heavy .30 caliber Match Grade, spitzer style, low drag bullets that are often loaded into the .300 A.A.C. Blackout, they take time to "settle down" after being fired. Fired at supersonic high velocity in heavy barreled, match grade bolt actions, many of these bullets deliver smaller groups at 300 yards, than they do at 100. None of this is desirable in a short range, suppressed, rapid fire Carbine. This experiment was like trying to breed a dog with a cat. You won't get a "Dogat".
Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: GeorgeCook on May 01, 2012, 08:11:52 PM
300 AAC Blackout Chambering Cancelled:

Some time ago, Savage announced it would be chambering the Model 10 Precision Carbine in 300 AAC Blackout. Since that time, we have tested many variants of this cartridge in various barrel lengths and rates of twist. This exhaustive testing left us quite unsatisfied with the accuracy we were able to get from the subsonic loads in this chambering. Accuracy with the lighter, faster loads in this caliber was actually quite good. But we believe the real value in this cartridge lies in the use of subsonic loads for suppressed rifles. Therefore we have decided to scrap the project.

It is our understanding that pushing these heavy, slow bullets presents challenges not found in typical loadings and that our experience is not unique. Subsequently, many in the industry have simply adopted a lower standard for accuracy for these subsonic loads. While this does seem reasonable and we don't criticize any in our industry that have taken this approach, it just won't work for Savage.

Our brand was built on accuracy and we are too protective of our reputation for building the most accurate factory rifles available. We would rather walk away from this opportunity than sell a product that requires an explanation.

http://www.savagearms.com/

I admire the integrity of Savage with this press release. I think I will seriously consider them for my next .22 LR bolt gun.
Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 01, 2012, 09:35:03 PM
I admire the integrity of Savage with this press release. I think I will seriously consider them for my next .22 LR bolt gun.

Yes, most companies would just let it fade into oblivion, at least Savage had the integrity to come out and say "It doesn't work".
Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: philw on May 01, 2012, 10:39:41 PM
I admire the integrity of Savage with this press release. I think I will seriously consider them for my next .22 LR bolt gun.

I, Have ( well it is hers ;) )  Savage Cub  ( in Pink ) for my little one   very nice .22
Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: Tyler Durden on May 03, 2012, 07:26:19 PM
Good, glad to hear it!  I didn't get all the hype either.
Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: PegLeg45 on May 03, 2012, 10:02:41 PM
Like Tom and Bill alluded to.......great round for the AR platform....not so much for a bolt-gun unless you custom tune with proper rifling. I've shot the round in an 18" barreled bolt action with a can.....and accuracy was "hog-killin'-acceptable"...but not quite a MOA tack-driver.
Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: Tyler Durden on May 04, 2012, 12:12:08 AM
I thought one of the key advantages of Savage rifles was the ability to do a DIY barrel swap, especially to another caliber....

soooo....

You could buy a .223 caliber'ed Savage, and then buy somebody else's aftermarket .300 Blackout barrel, right?

yeah, the key advantage with an AR was just a barrel or an upper swap to .300 Blackout and it was like VOILA! you had another new rifle.

Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: MikeBjerum on May 06, 2012, 10:00:48 AM
Yes, most companies would just let it fade into oblivion would have ridden the hype to the bank with the millions from customers, at least Savage had the integrity to come out and say "It doesn't work".
Title: Re: Savage drops 300 AAC Blackout for the Model 10
Post by: Tyler Durden on May 11, 2012, 04:22:06 PM
I'd be curious if Savage actually published any of their data and/or pics of these groups.  They didn't come right out and say that they wanted X amount of accuracy.

There actually is a mathematical formula for figuring out twist rate given bullet weight and velocity.

I am guessing that the .300 blackout was trying too hard to be the jack of all trades.

On the one hand you have 120-130 grain bullets at 2,300 fps.

Then on the other hand you have 180, 200, maybe even 220 grain bullets going slower than the speed of sound, less than 1,000 fps.

I am guessing marketing two barrels for the .300 Blackout wasn't a viable option.  One barrel with a twist rate for the lighter supersonic loads.  Another barrel with a different twist rate for the heavier subsonic rounds.