The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: dbs51 on April 12, 2008, 09:22:34 PM
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I really don't know where to begin. Have finally considered purchasing a pistol to carry in my vehicle mainly due to my new job. Have been doing a lot of reading and talking with my best friend who seems well-informed on the subject and owns an older Beretta semi-automatic & his wife has a Taurus snub-nose .38 revolver she loves. I know it comes down to how you intend to use the gun, (home defense & carry in the truck), revolver or semi-automatic, caliber, and subjectively, how the gun feels in your hand. The choices & manufacturers are mind-boggling. I do need to get to a firing range and rent several different types & calibers to "test drive," but may be impossible to test shoot the gun that seems to be a good fit. The weapon I finally choose is not one I'm going to practice shooting every weekend or enter competitions, but I do plan on practicing often enough to become proficient in using the gun & learning what ammo works best & provides the best results. Price is also a consideration as I'm not in a position to pay $1,000+ for the "ultimate premium" gun. I'm leaning towards a semi-automatic and have looked at various Taurus, Kimber, Armalite brands & know there are many, many more to consider. Ease of use and reliability are important too. I suppose one should take age into consideration. I'm in my mid-50's, in decent shape, still have respectable reflexes. I have recently read some interesting info on "The Judge" from Taurus, & having a .410 shotgun shell in a handgun sounds intriguing, especially for defense purposes, but wonder about recoil issues, especially with the light-weight version. In any event, I feel like I'm suffering from information overload & would appreciate anyone who can help put all of this in perspective & offer some sense of direction. Many thanks.
Dan
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Dan,Welcome to DRTV,
the first thing I would suggest is that you take a NRA firearms safety course. Once you have that under your belt you can then take a course on personal protection. This will teach you about the laws concerning self defense and use of deadly force. Then you can get instruction from a qualified person to learn the differences of the various hand guns.Some people like wheel guns others semi-autos, it will all end up with You deciding what YOU like most.I think you're on the right track with trying the different type of guns available to you, But without the basics of a safety course behind you , You might end up buying something that won't suit what you want it to do for you.
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Welcome to the handgun world. When you first start researching any new endeavor it will seem like you are trying to drink from a fire hose. You'll get some of the best advice at this site - it's one of the best I've found - from many knowledgeable and well seasoned individuals with varying backgrounds. None of it is gospel - heed it all but don't be an immediate convert to any in particular.
Take some of the recommendations and go down to your local guns stores (go to more than one) and fondle, er, uh, I mean handle all that are available. Do this several times as they will all be a blur if you don't repeat this exercise. Take your time and find what feels good in your hand. Test drive as many as you can. Accuracy and ability to handle the weapon trump caliber - for the most part. Read some of the other threads that discuss the various guns and see why others like a particular one over others.
And above all, sit back and enjoy the ride.
P.S. I'm fond of the 1911 platform and I like 9mm as I can get back on target faster.
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Hi There,
Price is also a consideration as I'm not in a position to pay $1,000+ for the "ultimate premium" gun. I'm leaning towards a semi-automatic and have looked at various Taurus, Kimber, Armalite brands & know there are many, many more to consider. Ease of use and reliability are important too.
Any gun is better than NO GUN!
Try a Glock for $550.00 lot of choice in calibers too. They ae EZ too shoot just like a wheel gun, only better.
For shooting people, or your truck. ::) Start with a .40 S&W... Three sizes to choice from. Just like the 3 bears :)
The weapon I finally choose is not one I'm going to practice shooting every weekend or enter competitions, but I do plan on practicing often enough to become proficient in using the gun & learning what ammo works best & provides the best results.
For matches see: http://www.gssfonline.com/
GS
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There is a nice video on "The Judge" over at the DRTV videos section of this site
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I recommend the NRA Basic Pistol and Personal Protection Inside the Home courses. I highly recommend anyone who carries a firearm for personal protection should find a local IDPA club and get out and shoot some matches. I could give you many reasons why I think you should...but I think this article says it best.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/idpa_092905/ (http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/idpa_092905/)
I carry a CZ 75B in 9mm in a Safariland 5188 paddle holster.
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I echo Ichiban when I say welcome, welcome, welcome. Majer hit the nail on the head when he said take an NRA course. You may also want to take an introduction to handguns course. With the two previous sentences in mind...and since you mentioned Kimber...you're probably topping out at $800? That is more money than you need to get started and still have a very nice weapon. I'd spend in the $500 range and then put the rest into some training...you'll be glad you did if you ever need your weapon for defense.
Board members chime in...but I'd decide on your defensive situation first..that would help to scope in what size gun you should have..full or compact. Then I'd stay with something common in ammo...say .380 Auto, 9MM, 40 S&W or .45 Auto...when you shoot some loaners think about the blast, recoil sensitivity and how quickly you can get off that 2nd and 3rd shot. Next, I'd think about what defensive situation you are most likely to be in one more time and if you'll carry concealed. After that, I'd pick whether I wanted striker fired or hammer.
The strikers can be carried loaded and aren't fully cocked until you take up the trigger....you've got to press to prep the striker, then pull to fire....primary safety is your finger and they are safe..some come with a manual safety and others do not so having or not having a manual safety is a consideration. Next, for me, I'd pick what felt good in my hand then consider whether or not I liked the trigger. Next, consider an accessory rail for a light if you're going to use it at night and...since you've indicated you are new then you maybe ought to lean that way and spend some money on a light...they are better than I thought they were. One more consideration...availability of a grip laser that doesn't interfere with the line of the gun...some can have 'em...others not.
I'm blessed to have several handguns...the Ruger SR9 feels great, like a 1911 single stack and I shoot it about the best....but the trigger on the M&P 45 is far better and since I just got it I'm holding out that I shoot it as well but probably won't carry it so much becasue I like the thin Ruger SR9 and I really like the SR9's ostentatious chamber indicator I can easily feel at night. Also have and FNP9 that I love...a good compromise between the SR9 & the M&P 45 but it's hammer fired. These three guns run from around $430-$530 and are a great place to start.
The M&P is running a special promotion to the end of the month with a $50 rebate and 2 extra mags...and if you shop around you may find one of the SHOT Show specials that have night sights on them...I found mine with the night sights which was an $80 value for the same price as one without...then add the rebate...a very good deal with a nice trigger for under $500..and a gunsmith can improve on the M&P's trigger and make it butter smooth for $100 or less.
Then there is the venerable 1911...you'd want to carry that one cocked and locked so if you're not confortable carrying a loaded gun with the safety on you may want to pass on one of those or the FNP.
Then there are the Glocks...excellent weapons...just danged ugly. So I don't own one just because of esthetics...."Friends done let friends buy blocks!"...OK...I'm gonna get creamed but that's alright. Lots of considerations so take your time and, admittedly, esthetics is my first draw.
The Armalite pistol you're speaking of...I have no history with it but they drew heavily from the CZ 75B design that it looks like. Check some websites for Armalite reliability (I think Jaybethel on this board had something to say about them?)...but if you like that one drop back to the $400-$480 range and pick up a CZ 75B in either 9MM or 40 S&W. I don't think anyone can say anything bad about them except for weight because they aren't polymer based like the SR9, FNP, M&P's or Glocks. Mine's in 40 S&W with thousands of reliable rounds through it....and if you get the CZ 75B ask for one with a stainless barrel...for some reason some have 'em others don't and I haven't figured it out but it seems to be a mix and match thing...something to watch for.
OK fellow board members...give me a break here I'm on pain medicine for this newly capped tooth that decided it wanted a root canal over the weekend...I'll probably read this and be embarrased later on.
I'd make a checklist of features if I were starting out...something I oughta do anyway.
The Kimber is great...so if you like 1911's and gotta have one they are good as is Para or Springfield...I think they all make good compact 45's.
Set some of that money aside for ammo and training! Have fun and welcome to the club.
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Much good advice here, Especialy about training, SAFETY IS YOUR FIRST CONCERN. Another site that has good info for the beginner is www.guntalk.tv Tom Gresham and others take you through every thing from when you first walk into a gun store to some advanced shooting techniques. The videos cover differances between revolvers and semi auto's choosing a pistol, differant holsters and safety. I would stay away from "The Judge until you are a more experienced shooter.
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Being new to this, and handguns specifically, I'd like to thank everyone who responsed to my "cry for help!" LOTS of knowledge and experience out there, and some terrific advice I will follow. Am sure I'll probably have numerous follow-up questions as I move forward. Again, thanks to all of you for taking the time to respond.
Dan
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Being new to this, and handguns specifically, I'd like to thank everyone who responsed to my "cry for help!" LOTS of knowledge and experience out there, and some terrific advice I will follow. Am sure I'll probably have numerous follow-up questions as I move forward. Again, thanks to all of you for taking the time to respond.
Dan
Bring'em on, We're happy to help. And don't worry when we bicker, even if there is no information shared it will give you some laughs. Myself, I just like to shoot, don't REALLY care what, But some of these guys have found the "Holy Grail" in thier prefered fire arm. ome will say "Wheel guns are real guns", other will swear that Glock is the ONLY way to go, others will tell you that if it isn't a 1911 its just a paper weight. Then there are calibers, 9MM vs .40 vs .45 is the biggest controversy, but then in revolvers you've got proponents of .357/38 vs the "Got to start with a 4 crowd" While they will all give you good information, it will boil down to what is comfortable to you and what can you shoot well that will do what you are buying the pistol to do. My advice would be to read what every one says then go to a range where you can rent the guns that interest you and make your choice from there. Be sure to let us know what you decide on and if possible POST PICTURES ;D
If you are interested in 1911, I've had REAL good luck with my Rock Island Armory 1911 Government model, I paid less than $400 for it but that was over a year ago so it's probably around $500 now. It's 100 % interchangable with Colt so parts are easy to find, I've put about 1600 rounds through it with no problems. Also, The PA - 63 in 9mm x18 Makarov is an inexpensive clone of the Walther PPK that I had pretty good luck with.
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http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
This is about the Judge and the .410 in a short barrel.
Quick Notes:
-Not enough velocity in the short barrel for .410 anything to penetrate well
-.45LC works well in the short barrel
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My advice is buy a good quality handgun that you like and are comfortable with holding, the way it feels, and the way it shoots. Today there are many great choices. Everyone has their own preferences and ideas about what is best. Some like revolvers some like semi-auto's. Listen to your inner-self whenever finally deciding and shoot, shoot, shoot... then no matter what you get.. you get real accustom to it and then you will probably want another one..lol.. I've made a few recommendations in the past and if you read some of my earlier posts, I primarily on shoot and carry one type of handgun. I've owned several big brand names and still keep coming back to a certain one. But, I'll won't try to sway you a certain way.. just yet lol.
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My advice is buy a good quality handgun that you like and are comfortable with holding, the way it feels, and the way it shoots. Today there are many great choices. Everyone has their own preferences and ideas about what is best. Some like revolvers some like semi-auto's. Listen to your inner-self whenever finally deciding and shoot, shoot, shoot... then no matter what you get.. you get real accustom to it and then you will probably want another one..lol.. I've made a few recommendations in the past and if you read some of my earlier posts, I primarily on shoot and carry one type of handgun. I've owned several big brand names and still keep coming back to a certain one. But, I'll won't try to sway you a certain way.. just yet lol.
Notice He said , "yet" ;D
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"..........I've made a few recommendations in the past and if you read some of my earlier posts, I primarily on shoot and carry one type of handgun. I've owned several big brand names and still keep coming back to a certain one. But, I'll won't try to sway you a certain way.. just yet lol."
Yet...I caught that too! I'm not going to put words in Hawkfish's mouth...but I bet the gun's initials are G-L-O-C-K !
Am I on mark here Tom?
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Yet...I caught that too! I'm not going to put words in Hawkfish's mouth...but I bet the gun's initials are G-L-O-C-K !
Am I on mark here Tom?
Really!? Ya think so? Hawk and Glock? NAAAAA, you're just imagining things! ;D
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::)
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Yet...I caught that too! I'm not going to put words in Hawkfish's mouth...but I bet the gun's initials are G-L-O-C-K !
Am I on mark here Tom?
Bulls eye !
::)
And see how he tries to look innocent ? And fails badly ;D
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::)
Watch out he's lurling about! He is gonna say it any tine now, just you wait and see. We know he can't hold back much longer.
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You mean we get to hear the Glock n spiel ? ;D ;D
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You mean we get to hear the Glock n spiel ? ;D ;D
** GROAN** (http://www.mazeguy.net/sad/melodramatic.gif)
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Thank You , I'm here all night, Try the Veal... ;D ;D ;D
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** GROAN** (http://www.mazeguy.net/sad/melodramatic.gif)
I take it you're not a Block..er, Glock lover?
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I take it you're not a Block..er, Glock lover?
It had more to do with Majer's pun.
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Boy, This is some nice weather we have been having lately. huh?
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Boy, This is some nice weather we have been having lately. huh?
Sure is Hawkfish, It's about 82 , sunny with a nice breeze here... ;D ;D
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I like Glocks. For simplicity ad reliability, you can't go wrong with a Glock. If they're too expensive for your current budget, you can get a good S&W or Taurus revolver for a fair price. A good revolver is just as reliable and simple. Kimbers are good guns. Though a good number of those are $1000 or above.
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One other thing you need to be aware of is the laws of the state in which you reside. In many states (mine, for example) one is required to have a ccw permit to have a loaded handgun in their vehicle. In fact, in Iowa unless one has a ccw permit the weapon must be stowed "in a container large enough so as to not be effectively concealable on the person", and stored, unloaded, in an area of the vehicle "not immediately accessible to the driver or passengers".
Bottom line is be sure and talk to your local Sheriff's Office (the office that issues ccw permits in most states) and find out what your local regulations require.
Good luck, and welcome to the world of concealed carry!!!
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All good advice, do check your local laws, one thing that has not been gone over yet, is whether you will only carry it in the vehicle. A car gun has a few advantages, it can be heavy, hold lots of bullets and not necessarily be concealable on the person. It can already have a laser or light attached as it does not have to be in a holster.
2) Where will it be stowed? Glove box, center console, hopefully not under the front seat, custom pistol holder under the dash or elsewhere?
3) Who else will have access to the vehicle, may determine if it needs to be in a locked container, clients, children etc... that's not that bad, as you can unlock it when your in the vehicle and lock it when others use it or when your away.
My truck has a nice big center armrest you could put an UZI in, but instead has a full size ( except for the grip reduction ) .45 glock with 2 spare magazines.
Good luck M25