The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: tt11758 on June 28, 2012, 09:57:49 AM
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/supreme-court-upholds-individual-mandate-obamacare-survives/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/supreme-court-upholds-individual-mandate-obamacare-survives/)
The Supreme Court has upheld the centerpiece of President Obama's health care overhaul, in effect allowing the law to survive.
In a 5-4 decision unveiled Thursday, the court ruled as constitutional the so-called individual mandate requiring most Americans to obtain health insurance starting in 2014.
The ruling is a victory for the president, ensuring for now that his signature domestic policy achievement remains mostly intact.
It also ensures that the law will play a prominent role in the general election campaign, as Republican candidate Mitt Romney vows to repeal the law if elected.
Chief Justice John Roberts, who was appointed during a Republican administration, joined the four left-leaning justices on the bench in crafting the majority decision.
The ruling relied on a technical explanation of how the individual mandate could be categorized. Roberts, in the opinion, said the mandate could not be upheld under the Constitution's Commerce Clause. However, it could be upheld under the government's power to tax.
"The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress's power under the Commerce Clause," Roberts wrote. "That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage it. In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress's power to tax."
The ruling did rein in one element of the law -- the expansion of Medicaid across the country to take in millions of low-income Americans. The opinion allows Washington to offer more funding to states to expand the program, but says the federal government cannot penalize states for not participating in the new program by withholding existing Medicaid funds.
Justice Anthony Kennedy, who was thought to be the swing vote on the decision, joined the minority in describing the entire law as invalid.
"The act is invalid in its entirety," Kennedy said from the bench. He went on to say the administration went to "great lengths to structure the mandate as a penalty, not a tax."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/supreme-court-upholds-individual-mandate-obamacare-survives/#ixzz1z6Gvzf77
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I'm really beginning to wonder about John Roberts...He'll most likely be the Chief Justice for the remainder of my life and this is now two decisions in a row that bother me...
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The fact that the SC has ruled on legality still doesn't make it a GOOD law. Romney and the conservatives will still attack and hopefully overturn it in the coming years before it takes affect.
As far as Roberts goes...you just never know. Some of these smack liberal judges sometimes get one right and the staunch conservatives sometimes get it wrong. Once they're on the bench they become somewhat unpredictable.
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The fact that companies, universities, hospitals et al are dropping coverage for their employees or students because it's cheaper to pay the penalties makes it a TERRIBLE law! It's what these asshats wanted all along. A single payer system controlled by the government.
My wife is on medicare even though she's only in her late 40's and it's pretty shitty insurance. We're finding it difficult to find doctors that accept it! Even if I'm still working, if my company has less than 100 employees, her medicare is still primary! You're at the mercy of the bureaucratic screwed up system.
It won't get better...
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The fact that Obamacare has met constitutional muster because it can be considered a tax might have some interesting consequences.
All the unions, companies and other BHO buddies might have been exempted from the law when it was looked as part of the Commerce Clause, but I do hope that giving blanket exemption to them will not be allowed as a tax.
The states that received exemptions as part of a deal to swing a senate or house vote are out of luck and it would seem all of Congress and the rest of government will need to pony up the tax too.
Another interesting aspect is that while the Rich 1%'ers will have to pay the tax, they will be able to afford and use other coverage...or just pay the price as they go.
So, now Obamacare allows The Rich to have workable health care will forcing the lower income citizens no option.
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Welcome to the New Socialist States of America.
Personal rights and responsibilities be damned.
Watch for a near-term erosion of 2-A rights.
The underpinnings have been officially kicked out of our Constitutional Republic.
We have become France.
We are about to become Greece.
I weep for what I will leave my grand kids. :'(
A thoroughly dejected Crusader Rabbit
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Commerce Clause My butt !
http://www.usconstitution.net/
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Are you, or your employer any one of those 3 ?
If not, the "Commerce Clause" has no application to you.
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Another interesting result will be if I, being a citizen of MA, would be paying one penalty to the state and another to the feds?
I would be paying a penalty this year since I don't have health insurance. The kicker is, all of my income comes from CT unemployment insurance and the federal extensions! Technically, I'm not required to file a tax return in MA for 2012 nor did I file one for last year!
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Tom,
Roberts rejected the commerce clause and determined that congress could use that mandate as a tax, just like Massachusetts does!
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Welcome to the New Socialist States of America.
Personal rights and responsibilities be damned.
Watch for a near-term erosion of 2-A rights.
The underpinnings have been officially kicked out of our Constitutional Republic.
We have become France.
We are about to become Greece.
I weep for what I will leave my grand kids. :'(
A thoroughly dejected Crusader Rabbit
I have never felt so stressed, angry, and sad at the same time. Never before in my life have I been so afraid for the future of these United States. For if what has happened today is allowed to stand. I fear there won't be anything left for our kids, let alone grand kids.
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Tom,
Roberts rejected the commerce clause and determined that congress could use that mandate as a tax, just like Massachusetts does!
I was addressing the other abuses of it, and why Roberts rejected it.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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Welcome to the New Socialist States of America.
Personal rights and responsibilities be damned.
Watch for a near-term erosion of 2-A rights.
The underpinnings have been officially kicked out of our Constitutional Republic.
We have become France.
We are about to become Greece.
I weep for what I will leave my grand kids. :'(
A thoroughly dejected Crusader Rabbit
Yep. >:( >:(
People all over the nation are struggling to make ends meet....and now, the SCotUS has said that the .gov has the 'right' (?) to tell every American citizen that they 'must' buy health insurance (even if they can't afford it)....OR pay a 'tax'........
Welcome to the beginning of the New World Socialist Order.......
The Republic is dying, one bite at a time.....and We the People keep handing them forks.
I urge everyone to register to vote....and if you are registered, GO VOTE.
It is not too late just yet........but it is getting there in a real hurry, folks.
Of course, one other angle to think of.....(and it is a long stretch of the imagination) but, remember how BHO opined so negatively about the SCotUS a while back? Everyone figured they would strike ObamaCare down because of it.........
Well, I'm hoping they did one better than that with this ruling because so many Americans are still on the fence as it relates to the upcoming PotUS election, and who to vote for.......... just maybe THIS is the "tipping point" that helps those on the fence to make up their mind to vote the Chicago Thug and his cronies out of office come November.
(yes I know this is just 'wishful thinking'....but the .gov hasn't taken that away....yet)
>:( BASTARDS >:(
(and I ain't cussed in a while)
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I also posted this on Facebook
Ironic isn't it, the SCOTUS told us today that we are no longer free. We are now slaves to government run health care, and we are supposed to be celebrating our nations INDEPENDENCE next week. I hope that everyone realizes that today, 9 people just took away the RIGHT to liberty for 300 million of the rest of us.
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>:( BASTARDS >:(
(and I ain't cussed in a while)
I'd tell you to go to the corner, but that is mild compared to what I have been calling them.
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Humanity's wonderful 236 year experiment in individual liberty and freedom ended today, killed off by an officious, petty, tyrannical and temporary Congress (that a majority of Americans kicked out in 2010), and by 5 Statist judges that administered the coups de grâce.
Unfortunately, this has much more far reaching implications than just Obamacare. The SCOTUS ruling on the Individual Mandate has now given precedence for more Statist "programs" which will force an individual to enter into contracts against their will.
But this is no time for lamenting, it's time to brew more tea.
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I calculate that voter registration should go on the rise........but then again, the sheeple might just turn the channel.
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Affordable Care Act: The Dissent
Posted on 06/28/2012
Today, Justice Roberts joined Justices Ginsberg, Sotomayor, Breyer, and Kagan in upholding the Affordable Care Act and individual mandate for health care reform as constitutional. In his opinion, he essentially ruled that while Congress cannot force you to buy health insurance, they can tax you if you don’t, making the individual mandate constitutional under Congress’ taxing authority.
From the SCOTUSblog:
Five Justices agreed that the penalty that someone must pay if he refuses to buy insurance is a kind of tax that Congress can impose using its taxing power.
In the 5-4 decision, Justices Kennedy, Alito, Thomas, and Scalia dissented.
Justice Kennedy delivered the dissent:
“In our view, the entire Act before us is invalid in its entirety.”
The dissenting opinion rejects the “broccoli analogy” raised by Alito, comparing the government forcing citizens to buy healthcare to the government imposing themselves in other markets:
The dissent dismisses the conclusion that the power to compel entry into the health-insurance market would include the power to compel entry into the new-car or broccoli markets.
And “a vegetable-purchase mandate” (or a car-purchase mandate) is not “likely to have a substantial effect on the health-care costs” borne by other Americans.
Ante, at 29.
On the power of Congress to tax, the dissent argues that the way the individual mandate was written does not make it a tax, rather a penalty.
Thus, what the Government’s caption should have read was “ALTERNATIVELY, THE MINIMUM COVERAGE PROVISION IS NOT A MANDATE-WITH PENALTY BUT A TAX.”
The dissent continues, distinguishing a clear line between a tax and a penalty, one which was not made clear in the original language, and one that cannot be re-written by the court.
But we have never held—never—that a penalty imposed for violation of the law was so trivial as to be in effect a tax.
Basically, the dissent is arguing that the majority opinion wrongly classified the penalty as a tax and is essentially rewriting the individual mandate as a tax in order to sustain constitutionality.
http://ivn.us/editors-blog/2012/06/28/scotusblog-the-dissent/
For more, you can read the whole decision here.
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf
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Well, it would seem that now the Gov. has to power to force us to buy, or at least pay for, anything they want.
Chevy Volt sales lagging? Tax everyone for the down payment on one one. Next year tax again for some payments until it is purchased. Only the rich could afford a ride different than the one they are being taxed to buy.
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There have been dozens of reputable polls which show the American people overwhelmingly oppose Obamacare.
The SCOTUS decision will create a groundswell of pressure on Congress to repeal it entirely, rather than just cutting out bits and peices.
Also, if it is a tax then it is universal, all those exemptions handed out to buy votes are now meaningless.
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Here's another look at the results of the ruling.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/what-did-scotus-just-do_647932.html
What Did SCOTUS Just Do?
Was today's Supreme Court Obamacare decision a win for conservatives or a loss? It depends on what you were rooting for.
supreme court
If you were above all interested in the bill being struck down, it was mostly a loss. On the other hand, if you were more concerned about the qualitative expansion in the power of the government that the bill represented, it was definitely a win.
First, the Roberts Court put real limits on what the government can and cannot do. For starters, it restricted the limits of the Commerce Clause, which does not give the government the power to create activity for the purpose of regulating it. This is a huge victory for those of us who believe that the Constitution is a document which offers a limited grant of power.
Second, the Roberts Court also threw out a portion of the Medicaid expansion. States have the option of withdrawing from the program without risk of losing their funds. This is another major victory for conservatives who cherish our system of dual sovereignty. This was also a big policy win for conservatives; the Medicaid expansion was a major way the Democrats hid the true cost of the bill, by shifting costs to the states, but they no longer can do this.
Politically, Obama will probably get a short-term boost from this, as the media will not be able to read between the lines and will declare him the winner. But the victory will be short-lived. The Democrats were at pains not to call this a tax because it is inherently regressive: the wealthy overwhelmingly have health insurance so have no fear of the mandate. But now that it is legally a tax, Republicans can and will declare that Obama has slapped the single biggest tax on the middle class in history, after promising not to do that.
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http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/28/romney-raises-over-100000-in-less-than-an-hour-after-scotus-ruling/
Romney raises over $100,000 in less than an hour after SCOTUS ruling; Update: RNC says now over $1 million
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/28/boehner-todays-ruling-underscores-the-urgency-of-repealing-this-harmful-law-in-its-entirety/
Boehner: Today’s ruling “underscores the urgency of repealing this harmful law in its entirety”
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/28/romney-if-we-want-to-get-rid-of-obamacare-we-have-to-get-rid-of-obama/
Romney: If we want to get rid of ObamaCare, we have to get rid of Obama
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There have been dozens of reputable polls which show the American people overwhelmingly oppose Obamacare.
The SCOTUS decision will create a groundswell of pressure on Congress to repeal it entirely, rather than just cutting out bits and peices.
Also, if it is a tax then it is universal, all those exemptions handed out to buy votes are now meaningless.
That was kinda what I was hinting at with my earlier posting regarding my "wishful thinking" that this is one way the SCotUS took a backdoor path in order to 'urge' the sheeple people to get off their collective asses and 'urge' Congress, and DC in general, to do something via the ballot box.
Heck, I don't know....it is one screwed up mess, though.... I tell ya what. >:(
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Obama vows to implement health care law, as Romney vows repeal
President Obama vowed Thursday to press forward with implementing his federal health care overhaul, declaring "the highest court in the land has now spoken."
The president, speaking from the East Room of the White House, called the Supreme Court's decision upholding most of the Affordable Care Act a "victory for people all over this country."
Minutes before he spoke, his Republican opponent Mitt Romney reaffirmed his vow to repeal the law. He called the law a "job-killer" that must be eliminated for the sake of the economy.
But Obama said "it's time to move forward."
"The highest court in the land has now spoken. We will continue to implement this law," Obama said. He said he will not "re-fight the political battles of two years ago, or go back to the way things were."
The president, in defending his signature policy, rattled off a string of the more popular provisions from the law -- guaranteed coverage, a provision allowing those under age 26 to stay on their parents' plan and a ban on lifetime insurance pay-out caps.
"They've reaffirmed a fundamental principle -- that here in America, the wealthiest nation on earth, no illness or accident should lead to any family's financial ruin," Obama said.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/romney-vows-to-repeal-obamacare-after-high-court-ruling/?fb_action_ids=453133271371439&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline
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I think you guys are missing the point. Just think of all of the wonderful .gov jobs that will be created by the new sprawling, 'accountable-to-no-one' government agency.
You guys complain about jobs. Glorious Leader creates many government jobs. You still complain. What more can Glorious Leader do to please you?
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Hmm, an interesting spin...
http://whitehouse12.com/2012/06/28/chief-justice-roberts-is-a-genius/
Not sure if it'll pan out this way.
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You guys complain about jobs. Glorious Leader creates many government jobs. You still complain.
What more can Glorious Leader do to please you?
Resignation followed by self immolation?
Maybe doing the monk thing is too much...I'll settle for the resignation.
Now back our regular programming and cheering for Glorious Leader!
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Well, that is pretty true.
It has started a blaze and has the dems with their shoes and socks off...now we have to find Congress Critters with cojones enough to their feet to the fire.
And then find state legislatures with enough backbone to just say no.
There are already a few states who seem to want to go that way.
I hear a lot of Romney ads featuring BHO saying "The private sector is fine".
Now lets keep hearing BHO saying "This is not a tax." Maybe some of the independents will get the message even if no liberals do.
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Resignation followed by self immolation?
Maybe doing the monk thing is too much...I'll settle for the resignation.
Now back our regular programming and cheering for Glorious Leader!
I am willing to forego the resignation part to get to the other part faster.
Today, I experienced the same cold rage I experienced on 9/11. IMHO - and for all the .gov wankers trolling this site, that's all it is, an opinion - there are 546 elected officials and untold scores of appointees who justifiably deserve the Mussolini treatment at this time.
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Hmm, an interesting spin...
http://whitehouse12.com/2012/06/28/chief-justice-roberts-is-a-genius/
Not sure if it'll pan out this way.
Interesting point.
Another thing that I posted about earlier, the repeal of this that the majority of voters will demand means that the whole thing will go, not just pieces.
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It's gonna be an interesting election.
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This election is just a puppet show if what Ann Barnhardt pontificates is true! John Roberts just gave congress the power to tax us just for "being"!
Things won't change much in the short term and ultimately, never in the long term unless and until we tear it all down!
The Tree of Liberty is drawing its last gasp of breath, its roots are dry and the wind that blows from the left is wilting its leaves!
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Things will have to get 100 times worse before public opinion believes that pulling a trigger is better than pulling a polling lever.
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Things will have to get 100 times worse before public opinion believes that pulling a trigger is better than pulling a polling lever.
"In 2000 historian Robert Calhoon said the consensus of historians is that in the Thirteen Colonies between 40 and 45 percent of the white population supported the Patriots' cause, between 15 and 20% supported the Loyalists, and the remainder were neutral or kept a low profile."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_(American_Revolution) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_(American_Revolution))
Yeah, yeah, I know, Wikipedia. :-[
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Things will have to get 100 times worse before public opinion believes that pulling a trigger is better than pulling a polling lever.
The majority are to stupid to see how bad things actually are now.
They won't get it till they can't watch "American Idol".
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The majority are to stupid to see how bad things actually are now.
They won't get it till they can't watch "American Idol".
Bad movie but a decent book..
Stephen Kings' (Richard Bachman) "The Running Man"..