The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on July 05, 2012, 03:06:28 PM
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The other day I was looking at some videos from different trainers on the internet. I do this from time to time just like I attend classes given by others - It validates what I do, it corrects some of my errors, it gives me food for thought, and it helps me evaluate my own teaching style.
While doing this I came across a video titled something about "idiot scratch." This caught my attention, so I watched it. It was by a person who purchased a product and was bragging it up. It is nothing more than a small piece of die cut mylar that hooks over your mag release and protects your 1911 frame from being scratched when you reinstall the slide stop.
Apparently I am an idiot because when I reinstall my slide stop I allow it to scratch the frame where the hook end passes through the notch. Not only does this company and the maker of the video think I'm an idiot, but many commenters on the site claim it is outright abuse, neglect and carelessness to allow your 1911 frame to be scratched in that way. It apparently is not a normal wear and tear mark from gun maintenance, but pure neglect.
I should have known the pansies I was dealing with when one guy talked about scars being ugly and unwanted ??? I'm of the school that if you want tattoos, that is fine. However, scars are tattoos with better stories. Which sounds better to you: The last thing I remember was buying this blond a drink, and the next morning I woke up hung over with this heart and the name Rhoda tattooed on my ass; or the ride was going great until the clown dodged right, and when the bull followed I was thrown over the fence ... 25 stitches and a couple of shots later I was at the bar with everyone buying me shots.
Sorry folk, but I buy my guns to use. Part of using is maintaining. If I use and maintain my gun enough to cause a "scratch" that is a good thing and not something to call me an idiot over!
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I saw that last week myself!
I'd much rather have a well worn tool than a 40 year old virgin......
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According to the commenters it is abuse as apposed to wear. My opinion is that the difference between abuse and wear is how it was obtained: If it rusts sitting in a safe, case or drawer it is neglect and abuse. If it rusts, scratches and dings because it is carried, fired and maintained it is love and respect.
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Abuse is using a torque wrench as a hammer! Scratches on a pistol frame are "use" not abuse!
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Not a 1911 guy, yet, so not completely familiar with this particular issue, but I am familiar enough with guns to get the basic idea. It sounds to me that some people spend more time fondling their guns and worrying about what they look like than using them. I agree that a good battle scar generally brings back fond memories. I would much rather carry/trust a gun scratched from being there with me through thick and thin than one that has been babied to the point of riduculousness. Maintenance wear is a sign that you take care of you firearm.
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You can't use a torque wrench as a hammer? Next thing you will tell me is that you can't use a micrometer as a c- clamp. Hurummpf.
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Here's the video if you care to see it:
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You can't use a torque wrench as a hammer? Next thing you will tell me is that you can't use a micrometer as a c- clamp. Hurummpf.
It may come as a surprise to you, (it sure did to me ) but some , mostly women, even get mad if you use their butter knives for screw drivers.
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Thanks for posting the video as that clarifies things.
I get the not scratching your gun if you don't have to concept, but the marketing is a major put off. Calling people who don't use their products idiots is crazy. Market it as a scratch prevention tool that helps eliminate avoidable maintenance scratches. Saying that you're abusing your gun by doing normal reassembly methods is also stupid. I think they would have much better success and appeal using the "honey" approach as to the "vineger" one. Although, their target market is probably the idiots who believe normal wear is abuse. :-\
I'm playing the role of a semi-devil's advocate here.
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Most of my bluing is worn off, I could care less about scratches. ;D
And I have to wonder what makes one a bigger idiot, the scratch or buying the tool to prevent the scratch. ;)
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Gosh...1911 has been around for what? Maybe 101 years? I imagine this product has been around for no more than a year?
I wonder how the idiots got by for so long with out this miracle?
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So are they insinuating that John Moses Browning was an idiot for designing a firearm that will get scratched?! ::)
Do they make a little mylar thing for holster wear? OH WAIT!!! WTF am I thinking? These guys don't put their 1911s in holsters, they don't need holsters because they came with a built in holster between their butt cheeks!
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I REFUSE to use tools to field strip or reassemble my 1911s.
Did I see it correctly? Did he somehow pull the slide stop out without it being aligned to the take down notch?
THIS is an idiot scratch.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/34h6f6r.jpg)
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You can't use a torque wrench as a hammer? Next thing you will tell me is that you can't use a micrometer as a c- clamp. Hurummpf.
chipping hammer and adjustable wrench, the ultimate multi tool.
I own three, a cheap 2 dollar piece o crap for little stuff, and a couple of Mitutuyo calipers that are very well cared for (no scratches) ;D Verier of course (or venereal if you prefer) :o
used my adjustable (crescent type) wrench as hammer today, better than rounding bolts with it right?
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No, no, no ichiban, that is not an idiot scratch. However, it does qualify you to hang around here with the rest of us gun abusers ;D
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The only idiot I see in that video is the dumb bastard who bought that POS scratch preventer. My gun doesnt need to look pretty, and I dont care for safe queens. My guns need to work and thats it.
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All of my fired bullets have ugly grooves in them and my firing pin dents my primers. Plus all the centers of my targets have big ugly holes in them. We have tolerated this nonsense for too long !!!
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Considering you can do the same thing with any thin piece of plastic (like a health insurance ID card).
Do they have a product to help you install the safety without scratching the frame?
One wonders if they'll have a product to prevent the drag line on revolver cylinders?
Also, I guess Kimbers work differently, but a Colt 1911, 70' model, I find it a whole lot easier to release the recoil spring by turning the bushing first. Then removing the slide stop.
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Alf, I may be wrong, (it happened once ;D ) but I think the spring that gives them trouble is the plunger spring.
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Wow, the guy wants $10 a pop for this thing. When I worked at the gun shop we called these "rookie mistakes." It isn't good customer service practice to call customers idiots.
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Scratches give character!
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I have heard it called the cresent of shame...but my guns serve ME, I don't serve them. Anybody who buys one of these things...well I don't know what to say.
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I have heard it called the cresent of shame...but my guns serve ME, I don't serve them. Anybody who buys one of these things...well I don't know what to say.
How about, "Hey, do you want to buy a bridge?"
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The whole idiot or shame thing us a moot point if you use your gun as intended. When your 1911 is in its holster or being held in a correct firing grip that area of the frame is not visible. Only idiots that own safe queens need to be concerned.
I've had a couple people ask to buy some of my guns from time to time. I give them a fair price, and they love to come back dickering with things like blotches in the bluing, dings in the wood, scratches, etc. My response is always the same: The gun works, it works every time, it is maintained, and it is 100% ready to go and won't give you any issues. I actually feel my well worn guns are more valuable than nib condition, because they are proven reliable and accurate.
I laugh at people that are afraid to go through the break in procedure on a rifle, because that many shots will wear the barrel out. Damn! First you shoot it to see if it works, then you start sighting in, then you practice at different ranges, then you verify groupings. Break in round count is a small compared to me just getting ready to take a gun out on a hunt, for competition, or for protection. One of the handgun magazines took a poll and published the results: The average personal handgun is shot less than 1,000 rounds in its lifetime. Why even buy the gun if that is all your going to shoot it. I know it isn't for self defense, because verifying it is worthy of carry takes 500 rounds by the time I test the gun and the carry ammo.
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WARNING: Thread drift begins... ;D
My geeky, computer science and natural language processsing background seems to be dominant this morning. When I read this quote from m58,
Only idiots that own safe queens need to be concerned.
I was reminded of the problem computers have when parsing such statements. Syntactic ambiguity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntactic_ambiguity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntactic_ambiguity)) is a property of sentences which may be reasonably interpreted in more than one way, or reasonably interpreted to mean more than one thing. So, m58, do you mean to imply that owning a safe queen makes you an idiot OR do you mean an idiot who also owns a safe queen?
I personally don't own any safe queens and feel that guns are indeed tools to be used in the pursuits for which they were designed. However, if one wants to own a safe queen, I don't consider him an idiot. Actually, the word 'idiot' is derived from the Greek idiotes meaning "one who lacks professional skill or training." In Latin, the word 'idiota' means somenone who is "ordinary." Given this etymology, I know a bunch of idiots. ;D
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WARNING: Thread drift begins... ;D
My geeky, computer science and natural language processsing background seems to be dominant this morning. When I read this quote from m58,
I was reminded of the problem computers have when parsing such statements. Syntactic ambiguity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntactic_ambiguity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntactic_ambiguity)) is a property of sentences which may be reasonably interpreted in more than one way, or reasonably interpreted to mean more than one thing. So, m58, do you mean to imply that owning a safe queen makes you an idiot OR do you mean an idiot who also owns a safe queen?
I personally don't own any safe queens and feel that guns are indeed tools to be used in the pursuits for which they were designed. However, if one wants to own a safe queen, I don't consider him an idiot. Actually, the word 'idiot' is derived from the Greek idiotes meaning "one who lacks professional skill or training." In Latin, the word 'idiota' means somenone who is "ordinary." Given this etymology, I know a bunch of idiots. ;D
When I got to the second sentence my geek alarm brought all my neighbors out into the street to check if my house exploded!
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Sorry, Pecos... I didn't mean to cause a scene. Wait a minute - a scene, an explosion, nothing to see, crowd control... Ok, maybe this will help:
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UUMM...OOO...UUMM These are not the droids your looking for!
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While I do cut a little slack from time to time for a special safe queen, I think the idea of a safe queen is stupid. Guns were made to be used! I stock up on toilet paper by tearing the page out of owner's manuals that tell me "To protect the collectible value of this fine firearm, do not fire it."
I have two near safe queens: One is a Ward Hercules 20 ga side by side, and the other is a Nobel lever action .22 lr,l,s. The Hercules was my grandfathers, and the Nobel was my fathers. Both guns were regular shooters and hunters until they went through a house fire. They were eight feet from the starting point and hottest part of the fire. They are safe queens because of uncertain safety of them.
Beyond that type of situation I believe that 99.9% of all guns should be shot, and you decide how it labels you one way or another.
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I won't slam a person for having safe queens.
There are guns that I would like to have, just to have them with no great desire to shoot them on any kind of a regular basis.
A Luger, a Webley Fosbury, and a Rhino for example, I would love to have one of each, but I might only shoot them once, there are other guns I would want for shooting.
All that being said I think this whole idea of worrying about a wear mark is totally asinine.
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I learned this expression several years ago, the first time I tried to get one apart & back together. I called the guy who suggested a 1911 to me and he said "It's called an idiot scratch".. I had about the same feeling that you experienced when you saw this little plastic thing..
I have since learned to try not to do it but it doesn't bother me..
It's not much of a marketing angle, is it.. "Buy this because you're an idiot"..
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I learned this expression several years ago, the first time I tried to get one apart & back together. I called the guy who suggested a 1911 to me and he said "It's called an idiot scratch".. I had about the same feeling that you experienced when you saw this little plastic thing..
I have since learned to try not to do it but it doesn't bother me..
It's not much of a marketing angle, is it.. "Buy this because you're an idiot"..
It's actually pretty accurate though.
If you waste ammo money on this you probably are an idiot. ;D
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I still think that this is about a bunch of anal retentive people that own guns ridiculing those of us that use our guns and someone trying to capitalize on it.
I was sorting through my carry guns last night, and I wonder what they think of someone who has holster wear and perspiration stains in the finish of their guns. Should I be condemned to Chicago because I don't know how to properly pamper a gun?
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I was sorting through my carry guns last night, and I wonder what they think of someone who has holster wear and perspiration stains in the finish of their guns. Should I be condemned to Chicago because I don't know how to properly pamper a gun?
If it goes "boom" when it's supposed to, "click" when it's supposed to, and you hit what you wanted to shoot, everything else is just hobby..
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If it goes "boom" when it's supposed to, "click" when it's supposed to, and you hit what you wanted to shoot, everything else is just hobby..
Stolen ! ;D
Just had a thought, the people who waste money on this really are idiots since they are buying something to prevent a scratch they already put on their pistol.
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What a awesome device! I will get one and put it on the shelf right next to my ashtray for the motorbike.