The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: a1abob on April 15, 2008, 09:22:42 AM
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Not a Good Sign
On Friday I got my Ruger LCP, bright and early Saturday morning (well about noon) I went out to put some rounds through it. We didn’t have much time some we only put about 40 rounds through it. They were equaly divided between Magtech 95gr. FMC and Win. Silver Tips, on the 12th round I had a failure to feed (using Magtech) I cleared it and continued shooting, then my friend (who was the dealer I bought it from) started shooting it, he was using Silver tips, on his last round he had a failure to feed. That’s a 5% failure rate, so all of you Kel-Tec guys who are thinking about switching, remember If It Aint Broke Don’t Fix It. 5% can be bad for your health if you need it. :'(
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If it's always the last round in the magazine that fails...I would suspect the mag and not the gun. I would check the lip for burrs and have a look at the follower. If you have multiple magazines...I would mark them to see if the problem follows a particular magazine.
Just my 2 1/5 cents worth. :)
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If it's always the last round in the magazine that fails...I would suspect the mag and not the gun. I would check the lip for burrs and have a look at the follower. If you have multiple magazines...I would mark them to see if the problem follows a particular magazine.
Just my 2 1/5 cents worth. :)
I agree.
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If it's always the last round in the magazine that fails...I would suspect the mag and not the gun. I would check the lip for burrs and have a look at the follower. If you have multiple magazines...I would mark them to see if the problem follows a particular magazine.
Just my 2 1/5 cents worth. :)
Bullseye!
However, doesnt it seem like everyone on here is having problems with those LCPs? I think I would wait another year or two before I bought one.
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1) Shoot more rounds through the gun first...I always shoot 200 rounds of BALL through any gun before it goes into service (and even then I shoot 50 rounds of the intended carry ammo). Every so often you see a gun that doesn't benefit from a break-in, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
2) You did lube it up before you started firing it, right?
3) If the situation continues, last round failure to fire is in general a magazine issue or a weak grip (anticipating the end of the string, the shooter loosens his/her grip, which will stall a lightweight pocket pistol).
4) "Everybody is having trouble with LCPs..." Really? Considering I've shot more rounds through more different LCPs than anyone else in the country who DOESN'T work at the Ruger factory, it's news to me. And to the people I talk to on a regular basis, who are some of the top instructors in the country.
And let me reiterate my basic mantra...while forums — including this one — are entertaining and interesting, they often do not provide a truly useful, or even fair, view of a gun. Here at DOWN RANGE we try to point you in a direction, but you are going to have to go there yourself.
I have discovered about a million ways to make a gun malfunction...nothing to do with the gun part of the system, but a failure on the human part of the system...which is nonetheless a part of the system. In any gun failure, the first thing I try to do is eliminate my own actions as a contributing factor to the stoppage. Then I try to make the gun repeat the stoppage (and, generally, if it won't repeat the stoppage, it means I may have discovered a million and one ways to jam a gun!).
If it is a repeating failure — the last round never chambers — and it is a new gun, I send it back and ask that it be made right. Every single manufacturer will make it right, because they need customers to stay in business. If the factory gunsmith can't make the error repeat in the shop — and believe me, it does happen...a lot — then I will step them through how the gun failed for me, including ammo, weather/environmental conditions (hot/cold; wet/dry; blowing dust/no wind), status of the gun (clean/dirty; just lubed/lubed once in 1984; brand new/owned a month; whatever); my own experience as a shooter; any anomalies I noticed prior to or during the gun's failure (Did the gun's recoil feel the same or different? Did the gun's noise seem different? Was there anything at all different about how the gun felt when it jammed?); how did the gun respond to basic remedial actions (disassembly-clean-relube-reshoot, the equivalent of rebooting a stalled computer)...
...I have gone through this process on some enormously complicated gun problems...a 9mm Kimber that I considered melting into a paperweight; a custom Colt/Caspian racegun that flatly refused to race; the Commander From Hell; but eventually we debugged the guns (These were not new guns! If I have a problem with a new gun, just like you guys I send it back...that's why God made warranties).
The problem with racing to the Internet and announcing you have a "5% failure rate" is that by tomorrow morning the forums will be baying that everybody knows "LCPs are suffering a 5% failure rate," which is not true. What is true is that one gun had 2 failures, both different in nature, in 40 rounds, and in the absence of additional information, we can only speculate what caused the stoppages.
I suppose in an ideal world, all guns would be 100% 100% of the time...unfortunately, machines are made by humans, and humans make mistakes.
Michael B
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I haven't had any troubles with mine either, with about 350 rounds, so far.
The problem with these forums is most people, who don't have any problems, do not post. While everybody, who does have a problem, posts the same issue on every forum they can find, looking for sympathy or solutions.
This isn't a bad thing, but you have to take this into account when doing your own research.
Anyway, good luck getting your issue resolved.
Does anyone have a source for extra mags? I wouldn't mind picking up a few extras. One just ain't cuttin' it.
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I bought my LCP on April 5th and it is already back at Ruger.
No issues with the last round loading but this thing eats brass for dinner. Every ejected casing was bent and the extractor was tearing a gash through every rim. I tried Magtech, Win. and CorBon with the exact same results.
The first shot case they include was the exact same way also.
Other than the fact that I was able to get this thing for $270 + tax I wish I would have passed.
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No issues with the last round loading but this thing eats brass for dinner. Every ejected casing was bent and the extractor was tearing a gash through every rim. I tried Magtech, Win. and CorBon with the exact same results.
The first shot case they include was the exact same way also.
I hear that. The extractor does do a little number on the case rim. This does not effect the operation of the pistol, though. It just sucks if you want to reload the brass. I like to view these SC pistols as carry a lot, shoot a little.
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I bought my LCP on April 5th and it is already back at Ruger.
No issues with the last round loading but this thing eats brass for dinner. Every ejected casing was bent and the extractor was tearing a gash through every rim. I tried Magtech, Win. and CorBon with the exact same results.
The first shot case they include was the exact same way also.
Other than the fact that I was able to get this thing for $270 + tax I wish I would have passed.
First thing I completly agrre with MB, Second I a must say that I am surprized that they sent this pistol out with that case being ripped as it was hat should show them that somthing is not quite right and maybe needs a little tweaking.
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+1 gunman1911...no excuse, and I will bring the post to the attention of the brass...not the ejected brass, but the brass that runs the ocmpany!
mb
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Could the feed ramp be an issue with the last couple of rounds not having enough spring pressure from the mag? I'm just asking because I like the initial reviews and may get one, but as with new models, I like to read reviews from those that put em' through the paces to work out any issues.
I know ammo and mags are factors, but as always I like to read the "real deal" from this forum and get an honest assessment.
I have a Springfield 1911 that shot FMJ all day, But, Hollowpoints would not feed up the ramp everytime until I had it polished and given a more generous angle.
Just my 2 cents before taxes, .0002 cents net.
Thank you.
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With mine it fed every round just fine just like I have come to expect from a Ruger.
Lik emy 10/22 and SR9 it would spit bullets as fast as I pulled the trigger but each ejected case was desroyed.
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Lik emy 10/22 and SR9 it would spit bullets as fast as I pulled the trigger but each ejected case was desroyed.
I found a thread on the Ruger forum, which explains the damaged brass. Ruger has addressed the issue by machining out a small area on the frame and this modification is included on all of the guns leaving the factory, now. I took a file to mine.
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I had to admit that I never even looked at the cases, since I don't reload .380s (I once tried reloading .32 ACPs and ultimately decided life was too short). Next time I fire the gun, I'll take a look!
Michael B
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I had to admit that I never even looked at the cases, since I don't reload .380s (I once tried reloading .32 ACPs and ultimately decided life was too short). Next time I fire the gun, I'll take a look!
Michael B
The one time I got to shoot my LCP so far (a) I was trying to focus on holding onto the Noisy Cricket, and (b) the shooter next to me had to move because I was pinging casings 8-10 feet. I looked, but it sure didn't say CETME on the side of the LCP! ;D
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Based on my years of experience, many “failure” are shooter caused. There are some that are related to the weapon but most can be corrected by the shooter being familiar with the firearm.
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Hi cody6.0,
I bought my LCP on April 5th and it is already back at Ruger.
Other than the fact that I was able to get this thing for $270 + tax I wish I would have passed.
No worries. Ruger will take care of you.
Wish I had LCP with a low ser.#.
Mine works great! Your will too.
Fun little gun.
GS
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I just hope I get it back before I send in my SR9.
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You made many good points Michael. I have seen many a forum say what junk Kimbers are! All I know is my Ultra Carry 2 has been one heck of a gun for me!
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Thank you Michael what you said needed to be said by someone that people actually listen to. I have said what you said on alot of forums about all the "Kimber Problems" My Desert Warrior has not had one problem in many thousand rounds yet if you read some of these posts you would think Kimber is just about done. So the 10 different people that post their guns have problems don't speak for the 1000's that dont post and "don't need" to cause their guns run great. And then after those ten say they have a problem everyone who has a bad mag, primer, extractor, grip, or havent ever cleaned their guns, now have one of the horrible guns. Imperfections are made at times, but not every problem is all the company or the guns fault. I know that I just said everything you said again, I feel better thank you. BTW when do we get to see pics of your S&W Gunsite with the "Answer" on it.
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My opinion?
Well, let me start off by saying that I am far from a handgun expert... Or at least a self-proclaimed expert like many others on most forums. But.
My wife, with less than one month's experience shooting handguns, ended up with an LCP on what was essentially an impulse purchase. Four weekends and 1,000 rounds later she has had exactly zero faliure to feeds or failure to ejects. The ONLY misfire of any kind was one round of Prvi ammo that didn't fire in hers or two other 380's. She also has no sign of bulged casings or casing damage from the ejector.
In my experience with guns (as well as many other things in life), most people find it easier and more convenient to blame the object rather than the operator. I wonder if this is one of those scenarios?
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Believe none of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see. I carry a PT140 remember the bad press about them ? I also carry a RIA , cheap knock off of the colt , yeah right, the Kel-Tec is a great little pistol. Great customer service. I hope Ruger is as good.
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I had bought a M&P that was at the time the new wonder pistol and had problems. (Granted I was shooting re-loads with a book O/L on them) Went to the range expecting great things. That's what "they" were saying in the gun mags and tv shows. Had issues with the mags so I numbered them. Made a note when the stopages occured, and with what mag. It was a systematic search for a solution to the problem. I ended up making my O/L on my re-loads .002 longer and fieldstriping the pistol and lubeing the rails with plasticote. What a big diffrance ! Stoppages went away, the FTF went away. I'm well past 1K now with that gun having shot only reloads through it and probley only shoot factory loads in it only for daily carry. But I lerned a lot about the gun and what a little "brake in" would do. Don't get cought up in the hipe on tv or the mags about man made products that change the world. Sometimes you need to figure it out from scatch. :)
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My opinion?
Well, let me start off by saying that I am far from a handgun expert... Or at least a self-proclaimed expert like many others on most forums. But.
My wife, with less than one month's experience shooting handguns, ended up with an LCP on what was essentially an impulse purchase. Four weekends and 1,000 rounds later she has had exactly zero faliure to feeds or failure to ejects. The ONLY misfire of any kind was one round of Prvi ammo that didn't fire in hers or two other 380's. She also has no sign of bulged casings or casing damage from the ejector.
In my experience with guns (as well as many other things in life), most people find it easier and more convenient to blame the object rather than the operator. I wonder if this is one of those scenarios?
The rim being torn like paper and the case smashed into an egg shape is far from operator error.
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The rim being torn like paper and the case smashed into an egg shape is far from operator error.
Thank you for stating the obvious. Perhaps if you had spent as much time inspecting the supplied ballistic test case before making the purchase as you did responding to my post, you wouldn't be in the position you're in now.
There is no doubt in my mind that you have a mechanical problem with your LCP that needs to be repaired. And according to your own post, the pistol has shot perfectly for you. While my previous post could have been worded better, I stand by the jist of it. Most shooting problems are shooter related, not firearm related.
Have a great day.
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Thank you for stating the obvious. Perhaps if you had spent as much time inspecting the supplied ballistic test case before making the purchase as you did responding to my post, you wouldn't be in the position you're in now.
There is no doubt in my mind that you have a mechanical problem with your LCP that needs to be repaired. And according to your own post, the pistol has shot perfectly for you. While my previous post could have been worded better, I stand by the jist of it. Most shooting problems are shooter related, not firearm related.
Have a great day.
BE NICE!
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BE NICE!
I'm sorry, I thought this was a gun related forum. When did being nice become more important than being honest?
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NICE & HONEST what a concept
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NICE & HONEST what a concept
Not only that but 'not nice' will bring the wrath (http://www.mazeguy.net/angry/punch.gif) (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/waffen/violent-smiley-046.gif)of M'ette (http://www.mazeguy.net/employed/cowgirl.gif)down on your head!(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-060.gif)
And I do NOT(http://www.mazeguy.net/angry/talktothehand.gif) want a good looking woman(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-022.gif) that can shoot(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/waffen/violent-smiley-044.gif) mad at me!
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I'm sorry, I thought this was a gun related forum. When did being nice become more important than being honest?
An armed society is a polite society!
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+10
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An armed society is a polite society!
Amen, brother!
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An armed society is a polite society!
Robert Heinlein
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NICE & HONEST what a concept
Frequently these two are mutualy exclusive ;D
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Not only that but 'not nice' will bring the wrath (http://www.mazeguy.net/angry/punch.gif) (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/waffen/violent-smiley-046.gif)of M'ette (http://www.mazeguy.net/employed/cowgirl.gif)down on your head!(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-060.gif)
And I do NOT(http://www.mazeguy.net/angry/talktothehand.gif) want a good looking woman(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-022.gif) that can shoot(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/waffen/violent-smiley-044.gif) mad at me!
You may hate bill gates , but I see you got your smilies back ;D
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And I do miss occasionally..
But not often.. LOL
And why would you scare a newcomer with my "wrath" Haz?
You all know that I am sweet as sugar.
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/kiss2.gif)
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And I do miss occasionally..
But not often.. LOL
And why would you scare a newcomer with my "wrath" Haz?
You all know that I am sweet as sugar.
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/kiss2.gif)
You need to stop counting the "warning shots".
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M'ette,
It's called "fair warning". ;D
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I bought yesterday a brand new Ruger LCP. When i saw it the very first time i was doubtful about its reliability and effectiveness. This morning i fired 50 rounds (Fiocchi Top Target, 100 grs bullet), with the target at 25 meters. The result was amazing (for a poor shooter like me). No jam, no ammo stuck in the magazine, almost 50% of the bullet hit the target. The recoil is acceptable, the accuracy is very good. The LCP worth all the money that i spent.
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25 meters is far beyond what the LCP was designed for,.... yes it can hit it, but as a pocket pistol, look at the parameters of its design.
try it up close and personal out to 7 yds. and I'm sure you will be even more impressed...
Congrats on the new LCP.
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I bought yesterday a brand new Ruger LCP. When i saw it the very first time i was doubtful about its reliability and effectiveness. This morning i fired 50 rounds (Fiocchi Top Target, 100 grs bullet), with the target at 25 meters. The result was amazing (for a poor shooter like me). No jam, no ammo stuck in the magazine, almost 50% of the bullet hit the target. The recoil is acceptable, the accuracy is very good. The LCP worth all the money that i spent.
Good report, thanks. The Elsie Pea is a fun little gun, I call mine the Noisy Cricket for the way it jumps in my hand when it goes bang. I like mine too, in fact it is in my pocket in a nice Desantis Nemesis holster. With extenders on the magazines too.
Stop by the new member forum, asanti611, let us harass welcome you properly. ;D
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25 meters is far beyond what the LCP was designed for,.... yes it can hit it, but as a pocket pistol, look at the parameters of its design.
try it up close and personal out to 7 yds. and I'm sure you will be even more impressed...
Congrats on the new LCP.
I know that 25 meters are far beyond what the LCP was designed for, but in the rifle range of my town we can shoot only at 25 meters (no closer distance), so i had no choice. Nevertheless i was impressed by the LCP. Now i carry it always in my pocket.
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I know that 25 meters are far beyond what the LCP was designed for, but in the rifle range of my town we can shoot only at 25 meters (no closer distance), so i had no choice. Nevertheless i was impressed by the LCP. Now i carry it always in my pocket.
Thanks for the report Asanti611 and welcome to the forum. I look forward to your future posts. Ciao.
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I hope this doesn't get too far of the subject. I purchased two Ruger LCP's: one for me and one for my wife. One gun was new old stock manufactured in 2008. The second gun was manufactured in Jan 2011. Shot both on the range. Both guns shoot 6-8 inches low at 10 yards. I'm not flinching. After I zeroed in the laser sights, using the laser spot, I can make little 3 inch groups at 30 feet by resting my hands on the bench. Projecting the laser on a wall 30 feet away, the laser spot being 7-8 inches below the level of the iron sights confirms the inaccuracy of the barrel aim being way off on the horizontal. Perfectly centered on the vertical. I e-mailed the factory to report the problem. After inspecting the gun, it appears that the only reason causing this inaccuracy is that the top of the inside of the slide was milled a bit too thin. That allows the breech of the barrel to sit too high and thus pointing the barrel too low. The only cure that I can imagine is to add some material to the top of the slide at the ejection port by TIG welding and then milling that weld down to approximately .006" thickness thicker than the original surface. Trial and error. That would bring the barrel aim back to a more accurate position. Who knows, I may decide to do this if the factory doesn't reply.
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Best solution is repair/replacement by the factory because TiG welding will potentially create heat treatment issues on the slide. Welding may cause the slide to be annealed and soften, requiring re-heat treatment.
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Hello CropdusterDoug, welcome to DRTV, Based on your post, Can the laser be adjusted to match point of impact? If the differentiation between point of natural aim, and point of impact is as far off as described, than Ruger will make it right.
A simple call, email, should get you an RMA and they will fix it.
Please keep us informed as to the progress before the TIG welder comes out.
tw
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DEFINITELY, return the gun, Crop Duster! Companies will make a gun right! And welcome to the forums!
Michael B
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I know that 25 meters are far beyond what the LCP was designed for, but in the rifle range of my town we can shoot only at 25 meters (no closer distance), so i had no choice. Nevertheless i was impressed by the LCP. Now i carry it always in my pocket.
It may be too far for 2-legged varmints, but for little 4 legged ones it is good to know you can hit them if you need to.
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Got my LCP a few months ago, 275 rounds so far without a single FTF for any reason. I had problems with Hornady's FTX bullets being dented as they were chambered (by the gun, if I cycled them through by hand they looked fine). More can be read about that in the handguns section. I'd started a thread on it. What I found out in the end is that the LCP wouldn't dent the bullets up if the gun was held REALLY loose wristed (My 16 year old daughter helped discover this!). Anytime I held the gun normally / firmly, it dents those particular bullets chambering them (their brass is papar thin!). I've tried four other types of ammo, and not a single problem with any of them. I've been using 3 different factory magazines in the gun without a problem between them.
BUT, I dismantle all new guns and magazines for thurough cleaning and lubrication before firing them. And have never put more than 25 rounds through this gun without cleaning it. It doesn't shoot dirty or anything. I just don't see the reason to make a machine / gun opperate dirty... :-\
You've got at least one happy customer Ruger! THANKS for a great little gun! Even if it is a "refined clone" ;). Haven't most Ruger products been exactly that throughout history???
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C T Laserguard & LCP like Rum&Coke +1