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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: sledgemeister on August 30, 2012, 10:09:54 AM

Title: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: sledgemeister on August 30, 2012, 10:09:54 AM
I found this in my old mans workshop last year while cleaning it out.
He has no idea how it got there, nor does he remember anyone that would have had access to such an item.
It is approx 1 3/4" accross and 2 1/8th" high.
I have pictured it next to a lighter to give you a idea of scale.
Do I know what it is, yes I do   (there is markings on the bottom but that would give it away)
I will give you a hint their is a date scratched into the bottom - 11-6-1951

Goodluck!

PS if no one has worked it out in a few days I will post another pic showing the bottom of the case a lot clearer!
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: mkm on August 30, 2012, 10:14:13 AM
I will give you a hint their is a date scratched into the bottom - 11-6-1951

I don't have a clue about the shell, but do have a quick question for clarificiation.

Is the date month/day/year USA style or day/month/year everybody else style?
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: sledgemeister on August 30, 2012, 10:17:03 AM
I don't have a clue about the shell, but do have a quick question for clarificiation.

Is the date month/day/year USA style or day/month/year everybody else style?

Unsure, thats the way its etched on the bottom. (year probably being the most important aspect)
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 30, 2012, 10:56:02 AM
40MM
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: sledgemeister on August 30, 2012, 10:59:27 AM
40MM

Sorry Tom - no  :-X
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Solus on August 30, 2012, 12:02:54 PM
Well, 1951 points to the Korean War period....

1.75 in converts to 44.44999 mm...so  45 mm maybe

2.125 in converts to 53.9749 mm ...  so 54 mm maybe

Google-fu is not hot for this one...

My first impression when I saw the case was that is was some type of signal gun or flare gun cartridge.  It just does not look up to handling a high pressure charge.

There appears to be a not fully expanded crimp around the mouth of the case which might indicate it contained a projectile less than the full inside diameter of the case...or maybe a non-solid projectile.

There also appears to be a very slight rim at the base of the case.

Case walls look pretty thin also.
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 30, 2012, 12:33:05 PM
Flare guns were generally around 37MM.
What diameter were the Coast Guard line throwing guns ?
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Grizzle_Bear on August 30, 2012, 01:15:14 PM
Is it an aircraft engine starter cartridge?

Rob
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Solus on August 30, 2012, 01:28:50 PM
Is it an aircraft engine starter cartridge?

Rob


Ahhh..sounds like a great guess to me!



A great movie too.
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: MikeBjerum on August 30, 2012, 01:33:49 PM
Grizzle made me say you betcha, so I did a search on them based on what I knew from the past and antique engines at our local threshing bee.  Everything I find says the engine starting cartridges are 12 ga.  This doesn't mean there wasn't a variation knowing how the military works, but that is what I know so far.
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Solus on August 30, 2012, 01:47:32 PM
I've seen references to 16g and I found this on eBay.  A bit longer than this one, but similar

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAF-Canberra-Hunter-jet-engine-starter-cartridge-brass-case-trench-art-No-10-Mk3-/200811414516?pt=UK_CPV_Aviation_SM&hash=item2ec14b03f4

Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Magoo541 on August 30, 2012, 02:19:43 PM
Too big for small arms, not big enough for artillery, a mine maybe?  That would be one hell of a toe popper! :o

My second guess would be some sort of grenade launcher...

OR it could be the base of a 45mm Anti tank gun cut off for an ashtray ;)
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 30, 2012, 02:52:34 PM
I've seen references to 16g and I found this on eBay.  A bit longer than this one, but similar

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAF-Canberra-Hunter-jet-engine-starter-cartridge-brass-case-trench-art-No-10-Mk3-/200811414516?pt=UK_CPV_Aviation_SM&hash=item2ec14b03f4

I'm betting Solus is correct.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_B-57_Canberra

The Martin B-57 Canberra was a United States-built, twin jet engine tactical bomber and reconnaissance aircraft, which entered service with the United States Air Force (USAF) in 1953. The B-57 was initially a version of the English Electric Canberra built under licence. However, the Glenn L. Martin Company significantly modified the design and produced several unique variants.

The retirement in 1983 of the B-57 ended the era of the tactical bomber that had its beginning with the World War I De Havilland DH-4
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Solus on August 30, 2012, 03:15:44 PM
I'm betting Solus is correct.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_B-57_Canberra

The Martin B-57 Canberra was a United States-built, twin jet engine tactical bomber and reconnaissance aircraft, which entered service with the United States Air Force (USAF) in 1953. The B-57 was initially a version of the English Electric Canberra built under licence. However, the Glenn L. Martin Company significantly modified the design and produced several unique variants.

The retirement in 1983 of the B-57 ended the era of the tactical bomber that had its beginning with the World War I De Havilland DH-4


I'm Solus and I approve of this message.....

Even though Grizzle came up with it and put me on the hunt   :D :D
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: sledgemeister on August 30, 2012, 05:56:34 PM
Sorry to say you are all wrong.

But grizzle bear is the warmest  ;D

its not used to start an engine either btw!
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: SpectreA19 on August 30, 2012, 07:21:04 PM
Is it part of a shell from a 37mm AA gun, either the Soviet 61-K or the German 3.7cm FlaK 18/36/37/43?  Or any other 37mm?
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 30, 2012, 10:10:01 PM
It's not shaped right to be a Rail Road signal.
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: sledgemeister on August 31, 2012, 06:07:18 AM
Is it part of a shell from a 37mm AA gun, either the Soviet 61-K or the German 3.7cm FlaK 18/36/37/43?  Or any other 37mm?

Good guess but no.

and tom no its not.

as I said Grizzle is the closest, however its got nothing to do with starting engines or jets.
Cmon fellas, dont tell me this little ol aussie redneck has ya stumped  ;D
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Timothy on August 31, 2012, 06:11:41 AM
It's one of those crocodile suppositories by crikey!

 ;D
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: MikeBjerum on August 31, 2012, 10:11:20 AM
Canberra engine starter (jet engine)
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: usmcdadx2 on August 31, 2012, 10:12:49 AM
OK Griz is closest but it is not an engine starter or has anything to do with aircraft...I'm thinking ignition cap/cartridge for a mortar round or illuminator(WL/IR) munition.
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: sledgemeister on August 31, 2012, 10:15:24 AM
Canberra engine starter (jet engine)

No but good guess

It's one of those crocodile suppositories by crikey!

 ;D

way too small!  :P

Obama would be the perfect size and for once he would be useful, he may as well give a croc the shits as well as everyone else!
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: sledgemeister on August 31, 2012, 10:17:02 AM
OK Griz is closest but it is not an engine starter or has anything to do with aircraft...I'm thinking ignition cap/cartridge for a mortar round or illuminator(WL/IR) munition.

Incorrect.
I didnt say it had nothing to do with aircraft!  ;)

I said nothing to do with starting engines or jets (jet engines)
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: usmcdadx2 on August 31, 2012, 10:21:20 AM
Reading comprehension is such an over-rated skill!
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: MikeBjerum on August 31, 2012, 10:25:30 AM
I'm at a loss at this point.  Your clue sends me deeper down the path of engine starters.  My experience is that there are many engines both piston and turbine, modern cycle both four stroke and two stroke, hit and miss antiques, small single horsepower to massive, small turbines to huge stationary turbine power units.

My only other direction, and your clue concerning Grizzle lead me away from it, was that it was part of an artillery load (projectile, powder packages, igniter).

I will sit back and watch.
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: MikeBjerum on August 31, 2012, 10:28:08 AM
OK, I just can't take it, so one more stab in the .... light of day:

Chaff deployment
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Jrlobo on August 31, 2012, 10:28:48 AM
Is it a 40mm shell from the 40mm cannon on the old Hawker Hurricane?
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: usmcdadx2 on August 31, 2012, 10:37:47 AM
OK sticking with a theam here...primer for an AA round such as the Bofors???
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: usmcdadx2 on August 31, 2012, 10:38:28 AM
And it seems I can spell either!
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 31, 2012, 10:40:27 AM
Ejection seat charge.
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Solus on August 31, 2012, 10:46:38 AM
Doesn't appear to be robust enough for heavy duty explosives...and, without seeing how they are designed, looks to fragile to be trusted as a primer for an artillery shell...a good bump with about anything might set it off.

I'm thinking of something lower power...m58's Chaff Deployment might be the right range for it.

Might be a way to start a heater without having to fumble with matches or what ever ....something like that.

Might be the charge for an emergency flare gun in a survival kit.


And just because the rotten slime ball said he didn't say it had nothing to do with aircraft doesn't mean it does.

Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 31, 2012, 10:51:09 AM
Doesn't appear to be robust enough for heavy duty explosives...and, without seeing how they are designed, looks to fragile to be trusted as a primer for an artillery shell...a good bump with about anything might set it off.

I'm thinking of something lower power...m58's Chaff Deployment might be the right range for it.

Might be a way to start a heater without having to fumble with matches or what ever ....something like that.

Might be the charge for an emergency flare gun in a survival kit.


And just because the rotten slime ball said he didn't say it had nothing to do with aircraft doesn't mean it does.

That would be a "wanker" in this case.    ;D
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: usmcdadx2 on August 31, 2012, 10:57:20 AM
Seems like a pretty flimsy case but I stuck with the AA primer because my Uncle had a demil'ed German AA round(Flak18 I think) when I was a kid and the spent primer on that thing didn't seem like much more than copper foil. Now we just get to see how long the "wanker" lets us all twist in the breeze.
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Solus on August 31, 2012, 11:02:19 AM
That would be a "wanker" in this case.    ;D

Dang..and I have my English/Australian Dictionary here, I just forgot to check
 
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: sledgemeister on August 31, 2012, 11:07:54 AM
Ejection seat charge.

Bingo Tom, see even you can get it after enough hints  :-*

its a No1 Mk 1 Martin Baker Ejection Seat Charge

see the below pic for the wording on the base of it
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: sledgemeister on August 31, 2012, 11:11:39 AM
Dang..and I have my English/Australian Dictionary here, I just forgot to check
 

You can just call me a bastard if its easier! lol
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 31, 2012, 01:20:28 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin-Baker
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: Grizzle_Bear on August 31, 2012, 02:07:11 PM
Okay....I may be wrong, but I think that most U.S. ejection seats used a rocket rather than a propellant charge.

And if it's not U.S.G.I. I probably wouldn't know what it was anyway!

GB
Title: Re: A bit of fun - identify this shell
Post by: twyacht on August 31, 2012, 06:28:46 PM
At some point the ejection also worked with "explosive bolts". Also used in the early NASA programs?

One blast to "unbolt the seat", and one to "launch" the seat..... Ass on fire comes to mind.... ::)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrotechnic_fastener