The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: sledgemeister on September 12, 2012, 08:36:15 AM
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Sorry did I say invade I meant to say blow the living shit out of - my bad
http://www.news.com.au/world/us-ambassador-killed-in-libya/story-fndir2ev-1226472933508
(http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/09/12/1226472/936623-j-chrisopher-stevens.jpg)
THE American ambassador to Libya, J. Christopher Stevens, and three officials were killed when a mob attacked the US consulate in the eastern city of Benghazi, the interior ministry says.
"The ambassador was killed along with three other officials,'' said Wanis al-Sharif, the deputy minister of the interior.
Stevens's death was confirmed in a tweet by Mustafa Abu Shagur, the deputy prime minister.
Stevens, a career officer with the US foreign service, had been in the country for less than four months after taking up his post in the capital Tripoli in May.
Fawzi Wanis, who heads the High Security Commission in Benghazi, confirmed that Stevens was at the consulate when it was attacked.
The envoy died when an armed mob protesting against a film deemed offensive to Islam attacked the US mission, just hours after Islamists also stormed Washington's embassy in the Egyptian capital Cairo.
Stevens was reportedly killed when he and a group of embassy employees went to the consulate to try to evacuate staff.
The protesters were said to be firing guns and rocket propelled grenades.
The film at the centre of the anti-US protests was made by an Israeli-American who describes Islam as a "cancer'' and depicts the Prophet Mohammed sleeping with women, the Wall Street Journal reported.
Before confirmation of Stevens's death, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced that a State Department official had been killed in the attack on the consulate, saying: "We are heartbroken by this terrible loss.''
Abdelmonoem al-Horr, spokesman for the Libyan interior ministry's security commission, earlier said rocket-propelled grenades were fired at the consulate from a nearby farm.
(http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/09/12/1226472/272825-us-embassy-protest-cairo.jpg)
Witnesses said the attackers ripped up a US flag, then looted the consulate before setting it on fire on the 11th anniversary of the September 11 attacks.
"Dozens of demonstrators attacked the consulate and set fire to it,'' said a Benghazi resident, who only gave his name as Omar, adding that he had seen the flames and heard shots in the vicinity.
Another Libyan witness said armed men, including ultra-conservative Salafists, had closed the streets leading up to the consulate.
The violent protest was strongly condemned by Libya's General National Congress, which in a statement expressed "outrage at the unfortunate attack against the American consulate in Benghazi''.
The Libyan incident came after thousands of Egyptian demonstrators on Tuesday tore down the Stars and Stripes at the US embassy in Cairo and replaced it with a black Islamic flag, similar to one adopted by several militant groups.
Egyptian protesters chant anti US slogans in front of the US embassy in Cairo in protest against a film deemed offensive of Islam.
Nearly 3000 demonstrators, most of them hardline Islamist supporters of the Salafist movement, gathered at the embassy in protest over the film, which was produced in the United States.
A dozen men scaled the embassy walls and one of them tore down the US flag, replacing it with a black one inscribed with the Muslim profession of faith: "There is no God but God and Mohammed is the prophet of God.''
Egyptian police intervened without resort to force and persuaded the trespassers to come down. The crowd then largely dispersed leaving just a few hundred protesters outside the US mission, an AFP correspondent reported.
An Egyptian security official said on Wednesday that security has been stepped up in the area around the US embassy in Cairo following the protests.
"There is an increased security presence in central Cairo, particularly around the American embassy,'' the official told AFP, adding that no arrests had been made during Tuesday's demonstration.
Egyptian riot police stand guard as protesters climb down from the wall of the US embassy in Cairo on September 11.
Coptic activists said they would stage a vigil on Wednesday in protest against the film.
The Maspero Youth Union (MYU) and the Coalition of Coptic Egypt condemned "all sorts of contempt or disdain against any religion, as well as to the sowing of sedition between people who embrace different religions'', the statement said.
The movie, Innocence of Muslims, was directed and produced by Sam Bacile, a 52-year-old real-estate developer from southern California.
"Islam is a cancer,'' Bacile told the Wall Street Journal of his crudely-produced film, which depicts the Prophet Mohammed variously sleeping with women, talking about killing children and referring to a donkey as ``the first Muslim animal''.
In Washington, Clinton said she had spoken with Libyan leader Mohamed al-Megaryef to coordinate extra support to help protect Americans working in Libya, and he had pledged his full cooperation.
"In light of the events of today, the United States government is working with partner countries around the world to protect our personnel, our missions, and American citizens worldwide,'' Clinton said.
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We won't invade just like we didn't invade Iran under that other Dem POS carter.
Why would Obama go against the Muslim terrorists he helped put in power ?
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I think we're kind of busy right now Sledge. If we invaded every muslim country that hated us, well, that would be all of them. :P We need energy independence ASAP. And are either of the major parties talking seriously about it? No. So we put up with this BS.
FQ13
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Like I said in another thread about an interview with a "spokesman". They don't like us talking about Mohammed and say we, "should not make the people mad. They will kill".
I've got news for you ignorant, goat-loving vermin, you don't want to piss US off. We're a lot better and a lot more efficient at killing than you are, and we can do it from our LaZ Boy chairs, so shut up and eat your sand patties. If they don't like it, they can eat their crude oil.
FQ is right. We need to put our energy needs first, become self sufficient, then we can put a fence around the middle east and let them hack each other's heads off over their goats and camels.
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"Islam is a cancer,'' Bacile told the Wall Street Journal of his crudely-produced film, which depicts the Prophet Mohammed variously sleeping with women, talking about killing children and referring to a donkey as the first Muslim animal''.
It appears muslims hate the truth as much as Hussein.
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marines on the roof top..... That and a bunch of ammo. Its our soil anyways. who gives a f..k what other countrys think. if they say one word about it, we should pack up and leave, cutting them off from all us money.
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We need to incorporate either Claymores or big blocks of C4 into our embassy walls. The last man out lights the fuze. ;D
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Like TAB points out, we used to give the Marine Embassy guards live ammo. The Govt didn't learn a damned thing from Iran in 79.
If The US Govt had any guts or pride at all it would have been like Peking in 1900 when US Marine Dan Daly earned his first Congressional Medal of Honor by manning a Gatling gun all night and piling up heaps of dead attackers.
If a modern Marine did that the Democrats would scream for his trial by the "world court" and the media would go bughouse over what a monster he was.
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I'm just praying for as much collateral damage as possible.
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Like TAB points out, we used to give the Marine Embassy guards live ammo. The Govt didn't learn a damned thing from Iran in 79.
If The US Govt had any guts or pride at all it would have been like Peking in 1900 when US Marine Dan Daly earned his first Congressional Medal of Honor by manning a Gatling gun all night and piling up heaps of dead attackers.
If a modern Marine did that the Democrats would scream for his trial by the "world court" and the media would go bughouse over what a monster he was.
I'd buy him a beer. And speaking of Peking, here's a little refresher, complete with theme music and Charelton Heston. One day we'll put on big boy pants. Not to dis Reagan, but at least BO allowed our guys to load their mags. Maybe Mitt will authorize them to shoot horizontally, rather than in the air.(Not holding my breath, because its bad for business).
FQ13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BujhFOoXxWQ
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Nothing is going to happen since obama apologized to them again and he won't do a thing to his Muslim brothers in my opinion :'( :-X
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I'd buy him a beer. And speaking of Peking, here's a little refresher, complete with theme music and Charelton Heston. One day we'll put on big boy pants. Not to dis Reagan, but at least BO allowed our guys to load their mags. Maybe Mitt will authorize them to shoot horizontally, rather than in the air.(Not holding my breath, because its bad for business).
FQ13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BujhFOoXxWQ
It wasn't Reagan, it was that azzhole carter.
Little jimmah, the Southern fried McGovern who forced the Panamanians to take over our canal, got a Wal Mart Peace Prize for letting Arafat and Begin share a room gave us the oil embargo, and has never met a dictator he wouldn't suck up to.
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It wasn't Reagan, it was that azzhole carter.
Little jimmah, the Southern fried McGovern who forced the Panamanians to take over our canal, got a Wal Mart Peace Prize for letting Arafat and Begin share a room gave us the oil embargo, and has never met a dictator he wouldn't suck up to.
You're forgetting Beirut. Marines without ammo unable to stop a truck bomb that killed 230. The Gipper screwed the pooch on that one, and shortly afterwards we abandoned the city.
FQ13
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And the USS Cole. Empty mags there too. The officer that approved that should be Court Marshaled.
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You're forgetting Beirut. Marines without ammo unable to stop a truck bomb that killed 230. The Gipper screwed the pooch on that one, and shortly afterwards we abandoned the city.
FQ13
They were also without transmitters to set off *remote control bombs because it might cause injury outside the compound.
Apparently its much better to have injuries and deaths INSIDE the compound. ::)
*they use backup remote in case Ahknod loses his nerve or is snuffed before he can blow it.
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Just cut off the damn foreign aid.....We know BHO won't do sh**...
Pray BHO loses the election. It was a coordinated assault. In Islam, there are no coincidences, and it wasn't some stupid unknown movie.
It was 9/11... They were sending a message, and announced it in late Aug. Now Tunisia, Algeria, Sudan, etc,.....
BHO is sending "50" Marines,...."50",...to Libya. I think it should be more, but alas,...BHO doesn't believe in consequences for his fellow Islamic "buds"...
Oh, and snub Bebe to fund raise with Beyonce and Jay Z, and David Letterman,....
Class Act this one,....
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You're forgetting Beirut. Marines without ammo unable to stop a truck bomb that killed 230. The Gipper screwed the pooch on that one, and shortly afterwards we abandoned the city.
FQ13
They guys in Beirut were under the same rules as Stateside guard duty, they had ammo, but it was in their mag pouches, not in the rifle.
The reason we "abandoned the city" was pretty simple, carter's budget policies left us in a situation where we had just enough troops to maintain our treaty responsibilities, with no reserve. when the 24th MEU was rendered ineffective, (the Maint. platoon was in a room directly over the blast) they had to be pulled out.
There simply was no one to send in to replace them until their scheduled replacement (26th MEU) could speed up their deployment.
at that stage of the cycle the members of the 26th were either training at 29 Palms or they were dispersed on pre deployment leaves.
As a side note I will say that my hatred of Muslims stems from the fact that in 1978 I served with the 24th MEU in the Maint. platoon.
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A little up date in case you missed it on the news the Embassy was not guarded by Marines but a private security force that was not named. So I would presume it was made up of local nationals that where not properly vetted and they just retreated when the trouble began. Just like in Afghanistan as long as we rely on others for our security we will continue to die at there hands in the name of appeasement.
Mike Mc
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A little up date in case you missed it on the news the Embassy was not guarded by Marines but a private security force that was not named. So I would presume it was made up of local nationals that where not properly vetted and they just retreated when the trouble began. Just like in Afghanistan as long as we rely on others for our security we will continue to die at there hands in the name of appeasement.
Mike Mc
Not necessarily... I know someone recently in Afghanistan who said they had contractors working right alongside GIs.
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Jaybet I have nothing against the private security in Afghanistan. They where more trust worthy than the ANA or ANP. The Point is we should provide our own security and not rely on others for our safety. Especially in hostile Muslim nations.
Mike Mc
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Not necessarily... I know someone recently in Afghanistan who said they had contractors working right alongside GIs.
I"LL bet my next SS check the contractors in Libya were not the same as in Afghanistan.
a
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I"LL bet my next SS check the contractors in Libya were not the same as in Afghanistan.
a
Not the same company, but the same standards, or lack of. They are contracted through the State Department.
Ran across this earlier.
It's my understanding that Marines have not been responsible for Embassy protection for a few years now.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/12/Where-Were-the-Marines?utm_source=e_breitbart_com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Breitbart+News+Roundup%2C+September+12%2C+2012&utm_campaign=20120912_m113482363_Breitbart+News+Roundup%2C+September+12%2C+2012&utm_term=More
Early reports of the militant attacks on the American consulate in Benghazi, Libya that killed our Ambassador, Chris Stevens, and three other Americans offer a confusing picture of the facts surrounding these murders.
CBS News is reporting that Ambassador Stevens suffocated to death while two Marines and an embassy staffer were shot to death. CBS also reported that more Marines were being sent to Libya. But these reports raise more questions than they answer:
Military officials told CBS News an anti-terrorism team of U.S. Marines was being deployed to Libya to help secure U.S. interests following the attack. The State Department said, however, that no Americans were remaining at the facility in Benghazi. State officials would not confirm how many Americans were evacuated, or to where....
Stevens died of suffocation, while two U.S. Marines sent to Benghazi when the clash erupted were shot and killed by well-armed protesters. It was not immediately clear whether the Marines were part of Stevens' security detail. The American whose death was confirmed on Tuesday also died of a gunshot wound. He was identified by the State Department on Wednesday as Foreign Service Information Management Officer Sean Smith.
Security at the consulate was apparently provided by Libyan nationals hired by the United States. While security for American embassies is typically provided by our own Marines, the two Marines reported killed in yesterday's attacks appear not to have been stationed at the embassy, but were sent there from another unknown location as the violence erupted. There is also no indication if these two Marines were the only American military personnel on site at the time of Ambassador Stevens's death.
All reports indicate that the security forces at the consulate were overwhelmed by the size of the militant crowds and offered no resistance as they stormed the building, looted it, and killed the four Americans.
As the facts surrounding the destruction of the American consulate and death of Ambassador Stevens become known, investigators will focus on these questions: Did the State Department provide adequate security for our embassy staff there? If not, why not?
And finally, the most important question of all: Where were the Marines?
Found this as well.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/09/12/Exclusive-Obama-Skipped-Intel-Briefings-Week-Before-Embassy-Attacks?utm_source=e_breitbart_com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Breitbart+News+Roundup%2C+September+12%2C+2012&utm_campaign=20120912_m113482363_Breitbart+News+Roundup%2C+September+12%2C+2012&utm_term=More
According to the White House calendar, there is no public record of President Barack Obama attending his daily intelligence briefing--known as the Presidential Daily Brief (PDB)--in the week leading up to the attacks on the U.S. embassy in Cairo and the murder of U.S. Libyan Ambassador Chris Stevens and three American members of his staff:
9/6/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-06
9/7/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-07
9/8/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-08
9/9/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-09
9/10/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-10
9/11/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-11
The last time prior to the slayings that the White House calendar publicly confirms Mr. Obama attending his daily intelligence briefing was September 5th. (The White House did not provide an official public calendar for September 8-10.) Mr. Obama and Vice President Joe Biden met with Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta at 5:00 p.m. yesterday.
According to a recent study by the Government Accountability Institute, Mr. Obama has only attended 43.8 percent of his Presidential Daily Briefs in the first 1,225 days of his Administration.
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All agreed. Our embassy is our soil. We should have ARMED guards who can shoot anyone who is presenting a threat to the occupants. Anything less is a LOT less than what we offer every other country in the US.
Perhaps what we should now do is go kill all of the occupants of the Egyptian embassy in the US. What? Doesn't make sense? Our people were killed ... that was an insult!!!!! It works when you insult Mohammad.
Killling innocents is never justified. NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm in favor of teaching them about the term, "retribution". Buyt only because I am so upset about the embassy killings. There is just NO justification.
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Nothing is gonna happen, until maybe January or later, if Mittens is elected. Big maybe..
My suggestion is to start by waiting for the celebration in the Consulate and vaporizing it. It's ours anyway.. We won't be doing any real business for awhile there anyway..
At the same time, announce "1000 for 1", no more. Then level a city of about 4000. Come back on television and ask if they want to pursue this line of reasoning. End..
Each following death responded to by another 1000. No more talk. No press releases. Just do it ans shut up about it..
If we fight over there, we need to set up a beach head where the first Marines are buried. They pissed all over that one months ago now.. (And nothing from Obama, the hero of SEAL TEAM 6 and the Bin Laden raid..)
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So I read where our Ambassador snuck into Libya on a freighter and intefaced with the "freedom fighters" and supported them while the whole Quadaffi thing was going down. This islamist radical thing was destined to bite the hand that helped feed them. Why can otherwise rational people not see that? They cannot see for lots of reasons...unmerited loyalty to a political party or cause, they think sticking their head in the sand will protect them and it will go away or they are just not mentally/emotionally capable to be responsible adults.
Why would islam not bite the hand that fed it??????islam is based on overthrow and death to all who oppose. I say that because if you have a retort to, "Why would islam not bite the hand that fed it?" as in why would islamist not bite the hand that feeds them, then you are erroneously applying our values and principles upon the islamist that they do not share with you....listen up here...they do not share our values and they want to kill us if we will not bow down and be subjugated. It's a pretty simple concept with scads of examples.
Apparently the recent history (for some of us) of the fall of Iran at the hands of these people meant nothing towards most Americans in the context of the Iranian event being an educational tool to be able to clearly see what the end game is. That ongoing total lack of discernment on our countrymen's part is worse than just being a bad sign...it's not a sign it's our future and those who can discern a threat will suffer at the same hands who dish out suffering to those who cannot discern a threat when we have a nation lead by people who either lack discernment or who would rather have our nation changed to reflect the values of islam.
Col. Quadaffi was a bad guy no doubt, but what happened to the "Why can't we all just get along?" theme of the leftists progressives when we picked sides on a guy who was the obvious best choice to stay in power vs. the islamist and who (Col. Quadaffi) had turned around and acceded to our demands? So we also turned our back on the Egyptian leaders. I guess the progessive's misplaced altar of foolish ideals trumps reality.......and I wonder if the Syrian thing is not the Russians drawing a line we should have drawn?
I guess our sheep countrymen will be like the Lebanese who didn't get it for a generation until the horror that they were being wiped out was knocking on kicking down their door. Same thing in Lebanon then that we have here now....bowing down at the damned altar of tolerance and being self-engrossed in having an inflated and foolish pride on open borders. After that, then there was death if you would not subject yourself to islam....by the time the "Christians" formed militias to protect themselves Lebanon was lost. Now when the news media talked about the Lebanese "Christians" that actually meant all people who did not agree to islam taking over. I think that we are following the Lebanese model.
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Another point that's being glossed over or ignored , the media reports that the Embassies were over run and looted.
They do not mention that that includes the CIA stations.
Every US asset in those countries, at least, many world wide, is now compromised.
The embassies includes the code rooms, America now has no truly secure cypher system for classified information.
Even if the staff destroyed equipment, there is no way to be sure what was destroyed and protected, and what the islamists can piece together from whats left.
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Good point about the intelligence compromise.
I am resigned to the fact that instead of holding off this hoard we will capitulate to the point where we lose an American city or two...or perhaps cave in totally to blackmail of losing a city.
So...I guess instead of action that down the road we are facing war or being wiped from the face of the earth.
It's looking like we're going to go down without really firing another shot...as it were. I'm thinking BHO wins re-election and it continues to get worse politically, economically and with foreign relations.
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Lets do keep a little perspective here. The Libyan government (for what's worth, probably about as much as Kharzi in Afghanistan) is pro-western. The great majority of the people don't give a shat, and just want to get on with their lives. However, the revolution wasn't organized around a set of ideals, it was just anti-Gaddafi. They took all comers, including the jihadis. Now that the dust has settled, they're jockeying for power. I think this attack was aimed at the government in Tripoli as much as it was at us. Ditto in Egypt, Yemen and Tunisia. This is an Al Queda play. The Islamascists want to discredit these new regimes and alienate them from western support, so they can gain power in the chaos. By dropping bombs we play into their hands. I think we need to use an icepick rather than a sledge hammer here.
FQ13
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That response really confirms we are doomed.
The Iranian government, for what it's worth is about as pro-western as...it's ideals were to get rid of the Shah who was a bad guy...the people love us, they really do.....that fits as good here for Iran then as Libya now....blah, blah, blah.....
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That response really confirms we are doomed.
The Iranian government, for what it's worth is about as pro-western as...it's ideals were to get rid of the Shah who was a bad guy...the people love us, they really do.....that fits as good here for Iran then as Libya now....blah, blah, blah.....
You're close
I think this attack was aimed at the government in Tripoli as much as it was at us. Ditto in Egypt, Yemen and Tunisia. This is an Al Queda Iranian Republican Guard Corps play. The Islamascists want to discredit these new regimes and alienate them from western support, so they can gain power in the chaos. By dropping bombs we play into their hands. I think we need to use an icepick rather than a sledge hammer here.
FQ13
The Iranian government has a stated goal to unite the world under Arab rule, and the IRGCis teh "Foriegn Office" of the government with units stationed abroad to incite Arab revloution. Hello?? Arab Spring??? Coincidence?
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That response really confirms we are doomed.
The Iranian government, for what it's worth is about as pro-western as...it's ideals were to get rid of the Shah who was a bad guy...the people love us, they really do.....that fits as good here for Iran then as Libya now....blah, blah, blah.....
Again you miss the boat Rastus. Iran is exactly why we should be surgical in our response (note I still intend a lethal response, just a targeted one). We screwed the pooch in our response in 1979, lets not do it again. Our enemies want a clash of civilizations. Why give it to them, when most Arabs don't care about politics more than most Americans unless you give them a reason to get pissed off? Yeah, they don't like us, so what? Its a long way from that to strapping on a suicide vest. Think of Libya like the Russian Revolution. Only in this scenario we backed the Mensheviks. They're in power now. The Bolsheviks (here the jihadis) aren't happy and want to see the Mensheviks gone. So, they stir up trouble to try to get us to do something rash that will discredit the government with us, and cause us to act rashly creating civilian deaths and outrage, and cast the Bolsheviks as the legitimate defenders of the people. Its a play as old as history. Just because someone dangles a baited hook in your face Rastus, it doesn't mean you have to swallow it.
FQ13
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You're close
The Iranian government has a stated goal to unite the world under Arab rule, and the IRGCis teh "Foriegn Office" of the government with units stationed abroad to incite Arab revloution. Hello?? Arab Spring??? Coincidence?
Actually, the Iranians aren't Arabs, they're Persians, and will kick yoiur ass if you suggest otherwise. Also, they're Shiites, and they get along with Sunnis about as well as Lutherens and Catholics in the 1600s (which would be an advance for both of them). About the only thing the Iranians and Sunni Arabs agree on is that they hate us. But their internal divisions make them weak.
FQ13
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FQ, glad to see your time in the FL wastelands didn't dull your stupidity. It is abundantly clear that these were coordinated para military attacks using staged "protests" as cover. The second Benghazi attack specifically targeted the "safe house" annex.
And it turns out the US Ambassador in Egypt had denied the Marines guarding the embassy any ammo. Oh, yeah, she was also conveniently in DC during the Cairo attacks.
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FQ, glad to see your time in the FL wastelands didn't dull your stupidity. It is abundantly clear that these were coordinated para military attacks using staged "protests" as cover. The second Benghazi attack specifically targeted the "safe house" annex.
And it turns out the US Ambassador in Egypt had denied the Marines guarding the embassy any ammo. Oh, yeah, she was also conveniently in DC during the Cairo attacks.
That's my point Path. It was a coordinated attack designed to get us so pissed off we drop bombs and alienate the people from the governments that "support" us and put the radicals in charge. This isn't about a movie, and it isn't about us, its about Al Queda taking control in these countries. Why dance to their tune? What part of this do you fail to grasp? If you ever want to play poker for money, I'll bring the chips and dip, because God knows between you and Rastus, I'll be walking away a lot richer if you're this easily bluffed.
FQ13
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FQ, your last several posts show that you have not been paying attention.
You therefore don't know what you are talking about.
I'll give you credit for having had other priorities and run it down for you.
The Muslim Brotherhood has been a terrorist group since at least the 1930's, they were the driving force behind the Arab spring, and their candidates won elections in Libya and Egypt.
There were also large scale MB uprisings in Yemen and Tunisia
Flashback to when the Lockerbie bomber was released from prison, Qaddafi pretty much ignored his return, it was the people, who would later comprise the Muslim brotherhood's rebellion who formed the crowds welcomed him home.
The fact that he, a Libyan intelligence officer, was surrendered in the first place shows that Col. Q had turned away from his old policies.
The Muslim Brother hood is connected to the "Haqqani network", Sec State Clinton's senior aid has connections to HN, Obama honored her at a Ramadan dinner last month. Last week HN was added to the list of organizations supporting terrorism.
Now our Embassies are attacked in Egypt, Libya, Yemen, and Tunisia.
As for Iran, yes they are Persians, not Arabs, they are Shiites, not Sunni's.
That has absolutely no bearing on the FACT that the "Quds Force" (The special Ops arm of the Republican Guard ) has been cooperating with, and advising any Muslim terror group in the world at least since the early 80's when they formed Hezbollah, and advised the Sunni group that attacked the Marine Barracks, and blew up the US Embassy, (twice ).
Remember the reports of contacts between Iran and Bin Laden ?
How about the Quds Force instructors advising Iraqi SUNNI bomb makers, remember those new style IED's with the explosively formed perpetrators to counter the armored Humvees ?
There was a report in the MSM just a couple weeks ago, The Iraqi Govt bitching about Iranian agents still stirring up trouble and inciting bombings.
95+% of current Mid East and South Asian unrest could be completely cured by nuking Tehran.
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And Libyans are not Arabs. Call them and Arab and they will kick your ass. They are North African traders and fancy themselves as quite sophisticated traders having been an outlet across the Sahara in bygone times to ship goods north to Europe.
The Arabs in Libya are the ones who came in and overthrew Quadaffi and did not leave. They seem to be running things for now. And yes they are aligned with Iran...like no kiddin'...shazam...bazinga...wow....light bulb...hmmm.....how do you fix that....golly...wow...
Jnevis I keep hoping the simple minded here in the US can connect the dots and at least use their head 10 or 15 minutes a day. You are exactly right and in posts earlier in the year my concerns about Iranian satellite states (Tunisia, Libya and Egypt) were scoffed at. Syria is not being destabilized without Iranian help either. If Syria goes to the muslim brotherhood then we'll see the noose tighten up in Saudi, Qatar, and, eventually Turkey before really picking up steam.
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You didn't hear any scoffing from me Rastus, you may like that little FN pop gun instead of a 1911, but we absolutely agree on foreign affairs.
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And Libyans are not Arabs. Call them and Arab and they will kick your ass. They are North African traders and fancy themselves as quite sophisticated traders having been an outlet across the Sahara in bygone times to ship goods north to Europe.
The Arabs in Libya are the ones who came in and overthrew Quadaffi and did not leave. They seem to be running things for now. And yes they are aligned with Iran...like no kiddin'...shazam...bazinga...wow....light bulb...hmmm.....how do you fix that....golly...wow...
Jnevis I keep hoping the simple minded here in the US can connect the dots and at least use their head 10 or 15 minutes a day. You are exactly right and in posts earlier in the year my concerns about Iranian satellite states (Tunisia, Libya and Egypt) were scoffed at. Syria is not being destabilized without Iranian help either. If Syria goes to the muslim brotherhood then we'll see the noose tighten up in Saudi, Qatar, and, eventually Turkey before really picking up steam.
Here, shockingly, I agree with Rastus. The Iranians have had their hands in Syria (via Lebanon, through their support of Hezbollah). Its why they want to see Assad fall, or at least be crippled, as the Syrians are the only ones who can tell their Hezbollah puppets, "No". They also have ambitions on the Gulf. Its what the Iran Iraq war was over, and why Bush senior was smarter than his idiot son. HW Bush realized that Iraq was a buffer state between Iran and the Gulf. He also realized that if a majority Shiite regime was formed in Iraq, it would potentially ally with Iran, so Saadam, bastard though he was, was useful as he led a Sunni government. Junior didn't get this. So now we see Iran aiming at the Gulf, but understand that it will be a hostile takeover, as the average Sunni fanatic would as soon kill a Shiite as a Christian. Not saying they can't make an entente, but they still hate each other. It is a point of weakness. We need to act surgically to get rid of the guys coordinating this, not level whole cities, or we will play into their hands. I have little faith in BO, but now is the time to fight smart and quitely, to eliminate the AQ and Iranian threats, and let the rest sort it out.
FQ13
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" Iraq was a buffer state between Iran and the Gulf."
Have you been drinking ? Or maybe dropping a little acid ?
FQ, now, right this minute, go to a map and take a REALLY good look at the Persian Gulf.
Come back and tell me what you see along the entire right side of it.
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The only time a marine should not have ammo is on the way home from a mission. if they can't use/handle thier weapon safely. They should not be a marine.
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the real question is.. can the US afford to though.... not cheep to run..
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The only time a marine should not have ammo is on the way home from a mission. if they can't use/handle thier weapon safely. They should not be a marine.
I have to Chastise you TAB.
I agree with you ,but Marine is supposed to be capitalized.
Thing is, there weren't any Marines there until trouble started and they were flown in.
This has to be something the State Dept came up with, it's to f*cking stupid to originate anywhere else.
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Its a Marines job to protect said facilitys ( i forget if its in thier charter or just tradtion.) there is no reason what so ever to leave that to a private contractor.
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" Iraq was a buffer state between Iran and the Gulf."
Have you been drinking ? Or maybe dropping a little acid ?
FQ, now, right this minute, go to a map and take a REALLY good look at the Persian Gulf.
Come back and tell me what you see along the entire right side of it.
Don't be a pedant. You know damn well what I'm talking about. :P
FQ13
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Its a Marines job to protect said facilitys ( i forget if its in thier charter or just tradtion.) there is no reason what so ever to leave that to a private contractor.
When I was in protecting embassies and Naval facilities were part of the Marine Corps mission statement as specified under the Nation Defense act of 1947 (might have been 49 ).
Both Missions have been shifted to other groups .
In the late 80's or early 90's Security at Naval facilities, (Stateside I'm sure, overseas, I'm not sure )was shifted to "Federal police agencies" later , within the last 10 years, Embassy security also was turned over to local security personnel.
Personally I think it's absolute stupidity.
Don't be a pedant. You know damn well what I'm talking about. :P
FQ13
If you meant Saudi Arabia and the Emirates your argument still falls apart since it was Iraq that invaded both, you may remember, it even made CNN back in the day.
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Remember Saudi has their very own oppressed minority Shiite population. Their worst nightmare is an Iran Iraq alliance casting covetous eyes on their oilfields and stirring up sectarian dissent.
FQ13
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Remember Saudi has their very own oppressed minority Shiite population. Their worst nightmare is an Iran Iraq alliance casting covetous eyes on their oilfields and stirring up sectarian dissent.
FQ13
SA Also is the home of the radical Wahabi's.
But of far greater concern to the House of Saud is simple numbers .
In area they are on par with Iran, population wise they are about even with Rhode Island.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran
Area 636,372 sq mi
Population 75,149,669
Density 124/sq mi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia
Area 870,000 sq mi
Population 28,376,355
Density 31/sq mi
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" Iraq was a buffer state between Iran and the Gulf."
Have you been drinking ? Or maybe dropping a little acid ?
FQ, now, right this minute, go to a map and take a REALLY good look at the Persian Gulf.
Come back and tell me what you see along the entire right side of it.
Hate to say it Tom, but in this case FQ is basically right. Saddam was seen as a "stabilizing" influence in the Gulf for a number of years. He, through Iraq, kept Iran in balance with the other nations, similar to the US and USSR in the "Cold War." Just enough force on both sides to have them look long and hard at making a push. Sure we had to pop him in the nose periodically to stay in line, with inspections and keeping things within the Parallels, but it really wasn't a big deal and was great training. ;) With Iraq destabilized Iran doesn't have any reason to remain covert about it's desires to rule. The US and Russia aren't going to do anything about it. Israel is the only ones that have anything to loose, and they aren't getting any support from us.
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Hate to say it Tom, but in this case FQ is basically right. Saddam was seen as a "stabilizing" influence in the Gulf for a number of years. He, through Iraq, kept Iran in balance with the other nations, similar to the US and USSR in the "Cold War." Just enough force on both sides to have them look long and hard at making a push. Sure we had to pop him in the nose periodically to stay in line, with inspections and keeping things within the Parallels, but it really wasn't a big deal and was great training. ;) With Iraq destabilized Iran doesn't have any reason to remain covert about it's desires to rule. The US and Russia aren't going to do anything about it. Israel is the only ones that have anything to loose, and they aren't getting any support from us.
That's part of what I'm getting at, just because he "was seen as" doesn't make it so.
August 1991 proved that the people who did the seeing were dumb asses.
Not to mention that the earlier need to reflag oil tankers proved that the "Iraqi counter" was worthless.
We could eliminate all this trouble if we announced a major policy speech on relations with Iran and fired one missile, IIRC the sub launched MIRVs carry ten warheads, that's one for the location of the Iranian leadership and 9 for their nuke sites.
Problem solved and the whole rest of the world sits back and reevaluates their position, China Russia, and India have their own issues that could benefit from such action ( most being made worse by Iran ), Chechnya, Pakistan, and N Korea for starters. so they may bitch in the UN but they won't DO anything.
As for the rest of the world, they need us a lot more than we need them.
In order to stave off the bleeding hearts I will also point out that while a nuke strike would lead to civilian casualties, history has shown that the results are far less costly than waiting until conventional war is unavoidable.
Because of increased accurracy, and the fact the targets would most likely require ground bursts against bunkers, lets say there are 100,00 killed , military and civilian.
That's 1/10th the losses to just the military in the conventional war with Iraq, and it happens with destroying either nations economy or infrastructure which leads to faster recovery and normalization of daily life.
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Holy crap did this spread.
http://goo.gl/maps/79HvR (http://goo.gl/maps/79HvR)
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/9/14/1347656856953/-460.jpeg
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Holy crap did this spread.
http://goo.gl/maps/79HvR (http://goo.gl/maps/79HvR)
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/9/14/1347656856953/-460.jpeg
Jihad meets the Flashmob.
Wonder if there's any connection with the 3 US universities that got Al Queda related bomb warnings today ?
They should give the riot police flame throwers, the best Muslim is a smoldering Muslim.
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I ain't going to wear one! It just seems like you're begging for a messy death. I mean honestly, you have everyone's undivided attention, and you can't duck and dodge, and one hit on the tanks that causes a spark? I'd rather take a Kel-tec into battle.
FQ13 Who nominates Tom to carry the flame thrower! ;D
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If you can calmly aim at something the size of a SCUBA tank on someone facing you while a 6 ft ball of flame comes at you you are a better man than most Gunga Din.
Google Defies WH.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Google-Muhammad-movie-YouTube/2012/09/14/id/451899?s=al&promo_code=10144-1
Google rejected a request by the White House on Friday to reconsider its decision to keep online a controversial YouTube movie clip that has ignited anti-American protests in the Middle East.
The Internet company said it was censoring the video in India and Indonesia after blocking it on Wednesday in Egypt and Libya, where U.S. embassies have been stormed by protestors enraged over depiction of the Prophet Muhammad as a fraud and philanderer.
On Tuesday, the U.S. Ambassador to Libya and three other Americans were killed in a fiery siege on the embassy in Benghazi.
Google said was further restricting the clip to comply with local law rather than as a response to political pressure.
"We've restricted access to it in countries where it is illegal such as India and Indonesia, as well as in Libya and Egypt, given the very sensitive situations in these two countries," the company said. "This approach is entirely consistent with principles we first laid out in 2007."
White House officials had asked Google earlier on Friday to reconsider whether the video had violated YouTube's terms of service.
Google said on Wednesday that the video was within its guidelines.
U.S. authorities said on Friday that they were investigating whether the film's producer, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a 55-year old Egyptian Coptic Christian living in Southern California, had violated terms of his prison release. Basseley was convicted in 2010 for bank fraud and released from prison on probation last June.
My question is this, why is it that every story about this guys perfectly legal action has to contain a prejudicial reference to his prior criminal record ? Stories about Roman Polanski seldom mention that he was a fugitive from charges of statutory rape.
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If you can calmly aim at something the size of a SCUBA tank on someone facing you while a 6 ft ball of flame comes at you you are a better man than most Gunga Din.
Who said anything about calmly aiming? I was more thinking of emptying a mag at you. ;D
FQ13
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Who said anything about calmly aiming? I was more thinking of emptying a mag at you. ;D
FQ13
Oh, Spray and pray ? The NYPD method makes me feel that much safer.
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Oh, Spray and pray ? The NYPD method makes me feel that much safer.
Dude, if I'm facing a flamethrower, I am not going to die with unfired rounds. Actually, thats what makes the flame thrower effective, the fear factor.
FQ13
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Does anyone remember Bill Maher's movie Religulous where he reportedly attacked Muslims for the last 25 minutes? Didn't he also give BHO $1 million?
I don't know I never saw it but to pin this all on this guy and have the FBI drag him in for questioning is a straw dog if I ever did see one. BHO and Biden have been spiking the Osama football all summer and somehow that has nothing to do with these "protests". Once is an anomaly, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action.
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Does anyone remember Bill Maher's movie Religulous where he reportedly attacked Muslims for the last 25 minutes? Didn't he also give BHO $1 million?
I don't know I never saw it but to pin this all on this guy and have the FBI drag him in for questioning is a straw dog if I ever did see one. BHO and Biden have been spiking the Osama football all summer and somehow that has nothing to do with these "protests". Once is an anomaly, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action.
Darn, I know I've read that exact line before.
Can't place it though.
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Darn, I know I've read that exact line before.
Can't place it though.
Patton?
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Bond, James Bond. Back when Sean Connery had the role and all was right with the world before that prancing nancy Roger Moore took it over.
FQ13
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I'm sure some of you have spent much more time in embassies and seen more of them than I have, but I have had the opportunity to visit the US embassy in Beijing a couple of times last summer.
The first was for a presentation on what not to do in China and what they could do for us if we did screw up. It seemed like a fairly secure place, but I remember looking for the Marines and never finding them. We had to go through security, but it was only Chinese guards. There were only about 50 or so of us there that time.
The second time was a few weeks later for an Independence Day party. The place was packed with all sorts of international VIPs, and the party was awesome. The only security we went through that time was some Americans making sure our names were on the list and some Chinese security guards. We shut the party down, and one of the guys in our group walked out with a tall can of beer and a piece of melon in one hand and a tall can of beer and a piece of corn-on-the-cob in the other. He made it all the way to the subway station before finishing.
Both times, all electronics were held at the door until we exited.
The place seemed secure enough, but our embassy definitely looked less "fort like" than some of the others (Israel if I recall correctly) on embassy row.
Thankfully, I'm not in the position to make the the decision on the best way to respond to these embassy attacks. However, I feel something needs to be done in response. To me, attacking our embassy is essentially a declaration of war. Do we need to invade these countries? Not in my opinion. I feel we should pull out all people and funding and let them try to make it on their own. If they become hostile and harbor terrorists, bomb them back a couple of decades to the stone age.
What seems to be the greater crime here is the lack of ability to defend the embassy from attack. An attack on a US embassy may be "successful," but those that actually make it in should have to climb over the bodies of the first few waves of attackers to do so.
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Considering that violation of an embassy has been an acceptable cause for war for about 3,000 years, the appropriate action would be to level the cities where our embassies were attacked.
High explosives followed by cluster bombs and Napalm.
When the rubble cools go in and rebuild just our embassy.
The reason this is happening is because the US Govt is a bunch of pussies who will tolerate it .
Diplomacy may be acceptable when dealing with civilized cultures, in that region there aren't any.
Jungle rules apply.
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I think a couple mags of 556 would have stoped all this. use the damn marines, arm them and give them ROE that is makes sense. cowboy diplomancy works very well with people like terrorists/ mobs.
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When dealing with people who only understand violence the "diplomatic" approach is not only ineffective, it is self defeating.
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One of my friends on FB suggested a new Middle Easter resort called: Lake Libya.