The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: santahog on September 26, 2012, 01:07:09 PM
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http://ammoman.com/p/53/223-penetrator-green-tip-m855-ss109
About .50 a round..
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Ammoman is about an hour-15 from me. I've been there because he can't sell by mail to NJ residents. Instead you make an appointment, go there, and he knocks even more off the price because he's not shipping. Pretty impressive little place, with off-duty LEO working there and lots of COOL STUFF in the warehouse.
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This is good ammo for plinking, but it sucks for anything important.
Troops in Mogadishu complained that it just went right through the skinnies with out doing any damage unless it hit a major bone .
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I think the biggest reason for the reported problems (if you give anecdotes credence) with the M4s is too short of a barrel and too heavy of a bullet.
"Must penetrate a helmet at xxx meters" is a dumb way to go about it IMHO.
I wish I still had the receipt for the 1k rds I bought from ammoman years ago...with todays prices it's probably better that I don't.
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No, the problem is that it was designed to penetrate light armor, (the Rangers in Somalia were using M 16 Rifles, not M4 Carbines ) so on soft tissue it over penetrated badly with out dumping much energy.
It basically magnifies the worst features of FMJ.
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No, the problem is that it was designed to penetrate light armor, (the Rangers in Somalia were using M 16 Rifles, not M4 Carbines ) so on soft tissue it over penetrated badly with out dumping much energy.
It basically magnifies the worst features of FMJ.
That's the trade off. Want it to penetrate concrete blocks? It will over penetrate on unarmoured BGs. Want it to deploy all its energy in the target? Use HPs (oops, I didn't say that :o). The solution? Buy a damn AK! And no, I'm not kidding. You put me in the sandbox with my choice of weapons? Hell, if you put me on Mars with my choice of weapons? Its going to be a .45 Glock and an AK.
FQ13
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Hell, if you put me on Mars with my choice of weapons? Its going to be a .45 Glock and an AK.
FQ13
Preach it, Brother!! I'm with you!!
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Some penetrator lying around is OK if you're going to shoot through car windows/doors and such training or for defense. Slightly less effective at penetration but much more effective on soft targets is the Federal 5.56mm MK318 MOD 0.
A friend was in on the devlopment of the round and he uses it deer hunting....I don't know why not a hunting round but whatever because it is cheaper than premium hunting rounds and works for him. What the MK318 lacks a bit in penetration it makes up for in terminal performance and..it's claim to fame is not being deflected so much through, say a car window, when you need it. So if you're stopped inside your car and need your AR to shoot through the window or vice versa to stay alive you'll want that MK318 ammo over green tip. It's what I see Tier 1 operators using when they train at the range...they have stopped carrying green tip. Take that for whatever truth you care for it to carry.
If I had no penetrator at all I'd get some amount of green tip just to be able to shoot back through concealment more effectively and because bad guys are increasingly using body armor when they kick down doors for home invasions.
My go bag has no green tip but it does have some MK318 in it. My home defense AR has MK318 first round or two. It's expensive if you can find it ($15 for a 20 rd box), but you should have a box or two in preference to green tip if you perceive a need.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/rifle-ammunition/223-5-56/federal-5-56mm-mk318-mod-0.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/rifle-ammunition/223-5-56/federal-5-56mm-mk318-mod-0.html)
Natchez Shooters Supply is almost always the lowest cost 5.56 provider of green tip or fmj. www.natchezss.com (http://www.natchezss.com)
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That's the trade off. Want it to penetrate concrete blocks? It will over penetrate on unarmoured BGs. Want it to deploy all its energy in the target? Use HPs (oops, I didn't say that :o). The solution? Buy a damn AK! And no, I'm not kidding. You put me in the sandbox with my choice of weapons? Hell, if you put me on Mars with my choice of weapons? Its going to be a .45 Glock and an AK.
FQ13
Dude, we left you in Fl with your choice of weapons .
Who was it that found a decent deal on AK's at Classic Arms and then bought a Sportical ?
;D
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Dude, we left you in Fl with your choice of weapons .
Who was it that found a decent deal on AK's at Classic Arms and then bought a Sportical ? ;D
LOL!
Although he is trying to sell it.... so he can by another AR! ;D
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Can't resist poking the Quaker, it's low hanging fruit ;D
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I'm going to the range, not to war. Its a great rifle, and there are "battle field pickups" available with the AR that aren't there with the AK if things ever do go to hell. Still, I want an AK.
FQ13
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I'm going to the range, not to war. Its a great rifle, and there are "battle field pickups" available with the AR that aren't there with the AK if things ever do go to hell. Still, I want an AK.
FQ13
Well, I agree...... so far as to say that it is the reason I (always wanted and) finally bought an AR: It can do both.
You can take it out of the box and use it to shoot a SOB, hunt varmints or big game (with proper caliber upgrade) or take it to the range and shoot MOA groups with the right ammo.
With the AK, it is what it is..... Made to shoot SOB's.....period.......... It's kinda like the Mini-14..... shoot it all day long, day in-day out.... it never stops running, needs very little maintenance, but don't expect to do anything much other than plink, train, or shoot SOB's with it because MOIB (minute-of-ironing-board) is about all the accuracy you're gonna get..... unless you spend wads o'cash.
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I'm going to the range, not to war. Its a great rifle, and there are "battle field pickups" available with the AR that aren't there with the AK if things ever do go to hell. Still, I want an AK.
FQ13
Like Peg says the AR is the more versatile platform.
To be honest FQ, every one of your complaints about your Sportical could be eliminated with a carefully selected different upper,
Get one in .300 AAC, or 7.62X 39 and make sure it has rails for sights and a sling swivel.
You'll still have the 5.56 to plink cheap ammo, and you will have a 30 cal carbine with the features you really want.
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Like Peg says the AR is the more versatile platform.
To be honest FQ, every one of your complaints about your Sportical could be eliminated with a carefully selected different upper,
Get one in .300 AAC, or 7.62X 39 and make sure it has rails for sights and a sling swivel.
You'll still have the 5.56 to plink cheap ammo, and you will have a 30 cal carbine with the features you really want.
Agreed. I just don't have the cash to buy one. I need to sell what I have and trade up when I find a sale or live with what I have. I don't mind waiting as mine is a fun range gun. Its a great shooter.
FQ13
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Not saying that's not a good price, but I feel like I've seen it cheaper. It may just be my mind playing tricks.
I'm glad to see a little discussion on the round itself though. I've been thinking about getting some for the truck mags. Now, I'm not sure it's worth it. I also haven't found it recently. Ammo, particularly cheap brass .223, is beginning to dwindle again.
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I agree with you mkm, not a bad price there's a lot higher pricing out there. Right now, the best price I can find on .223/5.56 is $310/1000 for PMC 55gr FMJ 223 at www.jandcsales.com (http://www.jandcsales.com) .
J and C also had 1000 rds of .45 ACP PMC 230 fmj for $350 a week or so ago.
I think the best price I found on 9MM last week was $200/1000 at www.bigdogammo.com (http://www.bigdogammo.com) or ammotogo.com whichever portal you use.
Finally we're seeing the price damn break on polymer tipped 223. Fiocchi is on the market with 50gr and 40 gr and I have a few hundred rounds of American Eagle 50gr. I haven't shot any yet...waiting on some of the Fiocchi to try them side by side with the AE and some premium Winchester Supreme and Hornady rounds.