The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: santahog on October 03, 2012, 11:59:26 AM
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Why is this so hard for folks to understand....
It protects us all!!
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"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
For me, that just about says it all. The big idea here doesn't hinge on political slant, race, religion, gender, wealth, or position. The big idea here is liberty... freedom... the right to protect what we hold dear from the injuries of both men and government. It's nice when you can listen to a politician that understands.
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"Those that give up liberty for more security deserve neither liberty or security."
Ben Franklin
On another board someone's signature says "Ignore your liberties they'll go away..."
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For me, that just about says it all. The big idea here doesn't hinge on political slant, race, religion, gender, wealth, or position. The big idea here is liberty... freedom... the right to protect what we hold dear from the injuries of both men and government. It's nice when you can listen to a politician that understands.
It hinges entirely on political slant.
The left is all about control, what you can say, and what is "hate speech, what you can eat, how big a soda you're allowed to drink,
and who is allowed to use violence .
Look at England where a man went to prison for using a golf club on the home invaders who had tied up his family.
He went to prison, they had the charges dropped.
That is what a "Labour" govt has brought England to, our democrats are the same creatures with the same socialist , one world agenda.
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It hinges entirely on political slant.
I don't know, maybe I should have said 'party affiliation'. Anyway, what I mean is that the 2A isn't just for Republicans, or Democrats, or the Name-Your-Party party. The 2A transcends these boundaries and definitions. The God-given right that the 2A acknowledges is bigger than the politics of man.
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I don't know, maybe I should have said 'party affiliation'. Anyway, what I mean is that the 2A isn't just for Republicans, or Democrats, or the Name-Your-Party party. The 2A transcends these boundaries and definitions. The God-given right that the 2A acknowledges is bigger than the politics of man.
The principle does, the belief in the principle is very much defined by party affiliation.
I copied this from the NYT because the version on Democrat dot org was a PDF and I did not want to bother downloading it.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/09/04/us/politics/20120904-DNC-platform.html (page 23 lower half )
We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation. We understand the terrible consequences of gun violence; it serves as a reminder that life is fragile, and our time here is limited and precious. We believe in an honest, open national conversation about firearms. We can focus on effective enforcement of existing laws, especially strengthening our background check system, and we can work together to enact commonsense improvements - like reinstating the "America's metro areas - cities and assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole -
What part of "Shall not be infringed do they not understand ?
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What part of "Shall not be infringed do they not understand ?
All of it.
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What part of "Shall not be infringed do they not understand ?
Look what the current administration is doing to the 1st Amendment while these useful idiots sit idly by and say nothing about the very thing that they live for!
I'm reminded of a minister in Germany during the Holocaust that said, and I'm paraphrasing, "we said nothing when they came for the Jews, or the Pols, or the political prisoners and before long there was no one left to defend us."
::)
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Martin Niemoller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller
First they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
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A German's view on Islam - worth reading. This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.
'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'
We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.
The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant.. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.
And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.
Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts--the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on!�� Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.
Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into New York City public schools, Toronto and other public schools in Ontario, and, yes, in Ottawa too while The Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?). The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in. And we are silent.......
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Reminds me of another post I read here....about a man being invited to dinner with Obama. Obama gave one of the staff his bread and proceeded to give away the rest of his meal....
When the man tole Obama to stop, BHO's answer was... You should have stopped me when I gave away your bread.
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MY GOOGLE - FU IS STRONG !! ;D
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=7736.0
I don't know the author, but I see the dark and foreboding truth in this brilliant parable.
"Dinner with Obama"
Once upon a time, I was invited to the White House for a private dinner with the President. I am a respected businessman, with a factory that produces memory chips for computers and portable electronics. There was some talk that my industry was being scrutinized by the administration, but I paid it no mind. I live in a free country. There's nothing that the government can do to me if I've broken no laws. My wealth was earned honestly, and an invitation to dinner with an American President is an honor.
I checked my coat, was greeted by the Chief of Staff, and joined the President in a yellow dining room. We sat across from each other at a table draped in white linen. The Great Seal was embossed on the china. Uniformed staff served our dinner. The meal was served, and I was startled when my waiter suddenly reached out, plucked a dinner roll off my plate, and began nibbling it as he walked back to the kitchen. "Sorry about that," said the President. "Andrew is very hungry."
"I don't appreciate..." I began, but as I looked into the calm brown eyes across from me, I felt immediately guilty and petty.. It was just a dinner roll. "Of course," I concluded, and reached for my glass. Before I could, however, another waiter reached forward, took the glass away and swallowed the wine in a single gulp.
"And his brother Eric is very thirsty." said the President.
I didn't say anything. The President is testing my compassion, I thought. I will play along. I don't want to seem unkind. My plate was whisked away before I had tasted a bite.
"Eric's children are also quite hungry."
With a lurch, I crashed to the floor. My chair had been pulled out from under me. I stood,brushing myself off angrily, and watched as it was carried from the room.
"And their grandmother can't stand for long."
I excused myself, smiling outwardly, but inside feeling like a fool. Obviously I had been invited to the White House to be sport for some game. I reached for my coat, to find that it had been taken. I turned back to the President. "Their grandfather doesn't like the cold."
I wanted to shout - that was my coat! But again, I looked at the placid smiling face of my host and decided I was being a poor sport. I spread my hands helplessly and chuckled. Then I felt my hip pocket and realized my wallet was gone. I excused myself and walked to a phone on an elegant side table. I learned shortly that my credit cards had been maxed out, my bank accounts emptied, my retirement and equity portfolios had vanished, and my wife had been thrown out of our home. Apparently, the waiters and their families were moving in. The President hadn't moved or spoken as I learned all this, but finally I lowered the phone into its cradle and turned to face him.
"Andrew's whole family has made bad financial decisions. They haven't planned for retirement, and they need a house. They recently defaulted on a subprime mortgage. I told them they could have your home. They need it more than you do."
My hands were shaking. I felt faint. I stumbled back to the table and knelt on the floor. The President cheerfully cut his meat, ate his steak and drank his wine. I lowered my eyes and stared at the small grey circles on the tablecloth that were water drops. "By the way," He added, "I have just signed an Executive Order nationalizing your factories. I'm firing you as head of your business. I'll be operating the firm now for the benefit of all mankind. There's a whole bunch of Erics and Andrews out there and they can't come to you for jobs groveling like beggars."
I looked up. The President dropped his spoon into the empty ramekin which had been his creme brulee. He drained the last drops of his wine.
As the table was cleared, he lit a cigarette and leaned back in his chair. He stared at me. I clung to the edge of the table as if were a ledge and I were a man hanging over an abyss.. I thought of the years behind me, of the life I had lived. The life I had earned with a lifetime of work, risk and struggle. Why was I punished? How had I allowed it to be taken? What game had I played and lost? I looked across the table and noticed with some surprise that there was no game board between us. What had I done wrong?
As if answering the unspoken thought, the President suddenly cocked his head, locked his empty eyes to mine, and bared a million teeth, chuckling wryly as he folded his hands.
"You should have stopped me at the dinner roll," he said.
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There is a series of books, 13 in all, that have that theme at it's heart. It is not evident till later in the series, but it is strong.
The series is the Sword Of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Truth
The series is a LONG read and, in many aspects, will remind you of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series...not to say that if you like one you will like the other nor that if you dislike one you will dislike the other...there are just parallels.
The first book in the series is The Wizards First Rule. It is available on Kindle.
http://www.amazon.com/Wizards-First-Rule-Sword-Truth/dp/0765362643
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Never liked Goodkind read the first couple "Shanara" stories, they seemed like commercial rip offs of a bunch of other books .
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The principle does, the belief in the principle is very much defined by party affiliation.
I copied this from the NYT because the version on Democrat dot org was a PDF and I did not want to bother downloading it.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/09/04/us/politics/20120904-DNC-platform.html (page 23 lower half )
We believe in an honest, open national conversation about firearms.
I believe in honest, open conversation too...
My firearm rights - F#%K WITH THEM AT YOUR OWN RISK!
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Don't be uncharitable. They can have my guns, all of them, free of charge. They'll just get them empty. ;)
FQ13
PS I will again reccomend "An Enemy of the state" by F. Paul Wilson. Its Boook 1 of the La nague Chronicles and the ultimate libertarian sci-fi out there. It beats Heinlien all hollow for todays climate. I think the trilogy is availible in one volume. If you have a kindle or something order it. You won't be sorry.
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I enjoyed the video, Col. West certainly can read the text of history as well as any southern preacher. I enjoy most of what I have seen of this man. I do hope that as time marches forward we all see more of him but I do hope that his fervor for the 2nd includes the rest of the amendments. I grow weary of people supporting only the parts they like...
As for the German letter thing...
I'm sure I don't have to point out that Germany's economy was in toilet after the great war. Not to mention the treaty of Versailles which helped cripple a country. Oh yeah and it also forbade them from firearms or other implements of war, and they had to give up large portions of their country, and pay the the countries that were attacked sums of money still thought to be unattainable. (440 Billion give or take) I don't think it would be hard to get anyone to buy into your greater scheme if it meant having your country, your rights, or your freedoms and liberty restored.
Why is it no one can see trends? Why can't we as a race of mostly sophisticated homo-sapiens remember what happens when refuse our brethren rights that we claim to hold so dear.
"Now the trumpet summons us again—not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need; not as a call to battle, though embattled we are—but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation"—a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself."
~ John F. Kennedy
We cannot hold our liberties to ourselves, we can never claim something to be a god given right and than refuse others. These people are not fighting for religion.
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I enjoyed the video, Col. West certainly can read the text of history as well as any southern preacher. I enjoy most of what I have seen of this man. I do hope that as time marches forward we all see more of him but I do hope that his fervor for the 2nd includes the rest of the amendments. I grow weary of people supporting only the parts they like...
As for the German letter thing...
I'm sure I don't have to point out that Germany's economy was in toilet after the great war. Not to mention the treaty of Versailles which helped cripple a country. Oh yeah and it also forbade them from firearms or other implements of war, and they had to give up large portions of their country, and pay the the countries that were attacked sums of money still thought to be unattainable. (440 Billion give or take) I don't think it would be hard to get anyone to buy into your greater scheme if it meant having your country, your rights, or your freedoms and liberty restored.
Why is it no one can see trends? Why can't we as a race of mostly sophisticated homo-sapiens remember what happens when refuse our brethren rights that we claim to hold so dear.
"Now the trumpet summons us again—not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need; not as a call to battle, though embattled we are—but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation"—a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself."
~ John F. Kennedy
We cannot hold our liberties to ourselves, we can never claim something to be a god given right and than refuse others. These people are not fighting for religion.
I need to pick a nit here.
The Treaty of Versailles did not prohibit the German people from owning firearms, it did not even prohibit the German Govt. from manufacturing arms.
What it did prohibit was offensive military weaponry, and limited the number of troops and heavier weaponry.
The purpose of the treaty was to place such restrictions and financial burdens on Germany that they could not again threaten the peace of Europe, much the same way we today place "sanctions" on various rogue states.
It failed miserably.
As early as 1923 Chief of the General Staff Hans Von Seekt was making deals with the Soviets to experiment with armored vehicles, and train Tankers, Pilots, and artillerists on Russian soil in exchange for tank factories and help with design work.
Troops in Russia were not counted against the strength of the Bundswehr, which was supposedly limited to 100,000 men.
Young men were trained to fly in Glider clubs that were unrestricted by the treaty but instilled the basic concepts of flight that allowed the Luftwaffe to seemingly spring up full grown .
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Part V of the treaty begins with the preamble, "In order to render possible the initiation of a general limitation of the armaments of all nations, Germany undertakes strictly to observe the military, naval and air clauses which follow."[12]
German armed forces will number no more than 100,000 troops, and conscription will be abolished.
Enlisted men will be retained for at least 12 years; officers to be retained for at least 25 years.
German naval forces will be limited to 15,000 men, six battleships (no more than 10,000 tons displacement each), six cruisers (no more than 6,000 tons displacement each), 12 destroyers (no more than 800 tons displacement each) and 12 torpedo boats (no more than 200 tons displacement each). No submarines are to be included.[clarification needed]
The import and export of weapons is prohibited.
Poison gas, armed aircraft, tanks and armoured cars are prohibited.
Blockades on ships are prohibited.
Restrictions on the manufacture of machine guns (e.g. the Maxim machine gun) and rifles (e.g. Gewehr 98 rifles).
This may not spell out a complete ban but limit the number of firearms available to be made and prohibit the import of firearms and you have what amounts to a ban. Again small peanuts compared to the financial sanctions placed on the country. Americans would not tolerate this and yet we expect everyone else to abide?
The German's are a proud culture of people, with an abundant history of innovation and ingenuity. They felt oppressed, they felt as if they were under the thumb of the League of Nations and they took every loop hole they could to train and equip themselves to get out of it. They were misled by a party offering them social and economic freedoms. The Nazi's brought Germany very far from the hardships they endured after the great war and to this day I am sure there are those that are at least happy that the treaty was abandoned.
Again I ask why are we surprised that whole nations of people oppressed by the same ridiculous notions that have failed time and time again rise up and fight?
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JdePietro, you are missing a major detail here. the harshness of the treaty was justified by the fact it was in response to Germany's 2nd aggressive war in 2 generations, one of the suggested clauses after the 3rd one was the deindustrialization of Germany.
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So if a nation continually takes over other countries by force or economic might, if a nation pushes its military superiority or continually is involved in conflict outside of its boarders that enhances the countries economic resources that country should have crippling sanctions brought onto it in order to suppress its capability? :o I think we are in a whole heap of trouble...
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So if a nation continually takes over other countries by force or economic might, if a nation pushes its military superiority or continually is involved in conflict outside of its boarders that enhances the countries economic resources that country should have crippling sanctions brought onto it in order to suppress its capability? :o I think we are in a whole heap of trouble...
Nice parry, but unlike Germany we usually win.
And the one outright loss was to a country no one gave a crap about. ;D
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Nice parry, but unlike Germany we usually win.
Unless we can reclaim and educate the last two generations (provided the O gets his walking papers) our winning may also be at an end, militarily, economically, socially...
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Unless we can reclaim and educate the last two generations (provided the O gets his walking papers) our winning may also be at an end, militarily, economically, socially...
All our losses and draws have been purely the fault of politicians, if the military forces are given a clear mission, like, "get rid of Saddam", and then left alone to do the job we will always win.
If politicians interfere with their "justifications" such as bringing democracy to people who don't want it, or applying crippling "Rules of engagement" then we are condemned to seeing our troops killed in endless , pointless stupidity like Afghanistan and Korea.
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