The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: billt on October 04, 2012, 11:10:34 AM
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I have been using Mobil 1 20W-50 grade motor oil almost exclusively for most all of my gun lubrication and rust proofing requirements for quite some time now where oil is required. About the only supplemental oil I use along with it is ATF, (Automatic Transmission Fluid), and Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lube, where I require a little more viscosity.
I have also been using the Mobil1 Synthetic Grease. It comes in a one pound tub and is an excellent product. The only negative I’ve found is that it doesn’t have the “tackiness” I like when you apply it. You more or less have to “work it in”, then it works very well. I decided to experiment with other greases that are readily available in an attempt to perhaps find something a little more suitable for firearms lubrication purposes. There is an old saying in general lubrication that says, “If it rotates oil it, if it slides grease it.” I don’t follow that to the letter, but it does have some merit.
Over the last couple of months I picked up several different greases from various auto parts stores. These products are not very expensive, and come in a very wide range of different types of lubricant content. Most come in a large enough size that if someone only used them for lubricating firearms, one purchase would last several years. The products I decided on were as follows.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/GunGreases001.jpg)
1.) CRC White Lithium Aerosol Grease
2.) CRC Industrial Aerosol Red Grease
3.) LPS “Red & Redi” Aerosol grease
4.) Lucas Oil “Red-N-Tacky” #2
5.) Super Tech Moly Lithium Grease
6.) Super Lube Synthetic Grease With Teflon, (PTFE)
7.) Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease
8.) Rig Grease
CRC White Lithium Aerosol
& CRC Red Aerosol Grease
Both the CRC White Lithium and Red Aerosol Greases were unique in the fact they were aerosol products. I found out about these from the maintenance guys that I work with in our company. Because they are an aerosol product they were the easiest to apply, and allowed for a very non messy application. The small application tube reaches into hard to get at places, and being careful you could dispense as little, or as much as you wanted.
Another plus these aerosol greases offer is as they are dispensed they come out very thin. Almost like a motorcycle chain lube product. Then after several seconds the dispersant evaporates, and the product becomes very thick and tacky like regular grease.
Both of these greases were extremely good for auto pistol slides and frames, as well as AR-15 bolts and bolt carriers because of this. On AR-15 bolt carriers you could “lay a bead” of this product along the 4 areas of contact, then smear it around with your finger very easily. In about one minute it will thicken up and really stay put. The White Lithium Aerosol was the easiest to see on blue or black firearms, so you know exactly where you’ve applied it, as well as knowing when you might need to reapply it.
LPS “Red & Redi” Aerosol Grease
The LPS “Red & Redi” Aerosol Grease was very much like the CRC Red Aerosol Grease. In fact I couldn’t detect much, if any difference between the two, except I thought the CRC product had a better smell to it. Other than that I would call them pretty much identical.
Lucas Oil Red-N-Tacky
The Lucas Oil “Red-N-Tacky” is by far the stickiest grease of all the ones I tested. It certainly was correctly named. This grease stays put the best of all. It is easy to apply with your fingers, or else one of those stamped metal handled “acid brushes”. I found this product to last the longest of any grease I tested. One application should last an entire range session for all but the most demanding high round count shooters. It also remained the thickest on hot parts like AR-15 and AK-47 bolts.
Super Tech Moly Lithium Grease
The Super Tech Moly Lithium Grease is black in color, and not as tacky as any of the above products except for the Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease. It is also the messiest if you should get any on your clothes, gun case lining, etc. It does however, have excellent lubricating qualities, as most Moly type greases do. It also lasted very long once applied.
Super Lube Synthetic Teflon Grease
The Super Lube Synthetic Grease With Teflon, (PTFE), comes in a tube, and is transparent in color much like Vaseline. The tube makes it vary easy to apply. It helps to have some toothpicks handy in your gun cleaning supplies to move this stuff around the area you want it. In fact it’s not a bad idea to have some toothpicks in your gun cleaning kit for applying most any of these greases. This grease really adhered well. The one thing I did notice with this grease is after you apply it with your fingers, it is very difficult to wipe completely off. Even after washing my hands with soap and water, water would still bead up and roll off my skin where it made contact.
I think this grease would be excellent for applications where rain or wetness of any kind would be encountered. Some of it lightly rubbed on to the external metal areas of a firearm would really help in preventing any long term rusting issues in humid, rainy climates. The fact it’s clear in color is also a plus for this type of application. It wouldn’t stain the inside of a gun case like the black Moly Grease will.
Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease
This product I’ve been using for some time now with excellent results. This grease is the least “tacky” of any that I tried. Once applied however, it does provide excellent lubrication. It does not seem to last as long as several of the other products tested, which is why I decided to test other products to see how they would compare to the Mobil 1 product. I think a lot of this is due to the fact it isn’t as “tacky”, and because of that it doesn’t adhere quite as well to the surfaces it’s applied to.
Rig Grease
This product has been around longer than most of the people reading this, including myself. Rig is a very oily grease that provided excellent protection. It almost has properties a lot like Cosmoline in that regard. I’ve found it’s best applied with a Q-Tip. When you open the jar there is usually a small puddle of oil sitting on top that you can easily blend in with a toothpick before you apply it. This will occur if the product sits too long, or is stored in a warm environment.
I’ve read several articles that state this grease is one of the best for use with Stainless Steel firearms, because it has properties that greatly reduce the chance of galling. Galling is a problem with Stainless Steel because it’s “gummy” because of the Nickel content of the metal. When like stainless Steel surfaces wear against one another, (like the frame and slide of a Stainless Steel 1911), Galling can result if the surfaces are not well lubricated. Rig is one of the best products for this. The original company that produced Rig went out of business not too long ago, but it was purchased by another company, and fortunately this product is back on the market.
It was a lot of fun doing this test, and I enjoyed the time I spent evaluating these products. While none of these products could be considered unsatisfactory, some were better than others. The aerosol greases were quite unique. They are not an easy product to find, as CRC is more of an industrial supplier. They can be purchased from W.W. Grainger Co., who is a major industrial supplier that sells to the general public as well. They were the most expensive of the products I tested, running around $11.00 a can. Again, one can would last the average shooter for years, if not a lifetime.
All the other products I tested are available from most any of the better known auto parts franchise stores. Pep Boys, O’Reilly, Auto Zone, etc. all stock them. And none cost more than a few bucks each. All are a much better value than these super expensive “gun greases” that can cost over $10.00 an ounce. You can purchase a hypo type applicator for any of these products at any drug store. They are easily filled with your finger, and are much handier to keep in your shooting kit when you go to the range, or clean afterwards.
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Last night my youngest was over at my house cleaning his black powder rifle after checking the zero. He couldn't find the grease that came with it for lubing the breech plug. Since they were headed to wal-mart later I just told him to grab a tube of wheel bearing grease or synthetic grease and that it's do the same thing.
I don't use much in the way of advertised 'gun-specific lubes' either.
I have at times and still use any of the following:
Kroil
PB B'Laster
3-in-1 oil
ATF
Syntec
Synthetic rear-end gear dope
Wheel bearing grease
White lithium grease
Silicone spray lube
The only 'gun' stuff I use is Hoppe's, Rig, and JB Bore Bright.
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I still swear by 3-in-1 oil for all my lubrication needs!
Never a hiccup yet in 30 years! ;)
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What is the drawback to lubes, oils and greases that are designed for firearms? Is it the cost? I guess I'm from a world of proper lubes for the application with Mills, lathes, automation, cars and bicycles there are specific needs that are addressed. I am a tinkerer by nature and understand the desire to find a better way of doing something but this is one area I have a hard time coloring outside the lines.
To each his own I just like knowing I am not experimenting with my life saving device.
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What is the drawback to lubes, oils and greases that are designed for firearms? Is it the cost? I guess I'm from a world of proper lubes for the application with Mills, lathes, automation, cars and bicycles there are specific needs that are addressed. I am a tinkerer by nature and understand the desire to find a better way of doing something but this is one area I have a hard time coloring outside the lines.
To each his own I just like knowing I am not experimenting with my life saving device.
Here ya go Magoo,
http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html
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Here ya go Magoo,
http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html
Sure bust out a fellow Oregonian to burst my bubble ;D
But seriously, I used Hoppes, RemOil and what ever readily available "gun oil" I lay my hands on and have wondered, but not bought any, of the $30 a bottle/gar of the "tactical special" oil or grease. Although the Bacon Scented has tempted me ;D
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Damn, are deer attracted to bacon aromas? I've been spending all my spare cash to get rid of all human odors on me, my clothes, my teeth/mouth when I go deer hunting. And using all the known attractants, doe estrous, apple, buck urine liquids, drips, gels...you name it...to hide my smell. Now, if all I need to do is use bacon grease on my guns, clothes and eat bacon before I leave the house I'll be in seventh heaven. Eh, think I'll stick with the tried and true...same for the guns. I'd still have my first rifle (Schmidt-Rubin .30cal) if my Dad hadn't sold it...and didn't use engine oil with contaminants either. There must be a reason they say to throw out engine oil that is 6 months old even if you haven't driven 3,000 miles! And note you are using synthetic oils like Mobil One...wonder why they were invented? Ever try transmission fluid in your car's engine? The reverse? No?
Each lubricant has a specific purpose, good for some things not others. I think I'll just play it safe and spend a few extra bucks to make sure that the few guns that I have last me through the next disaster and I can pass them down to my son for him to do the same.
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Eliminate your odor by smoke with a smudge of sweetfern, sweetgrass, or cedar.
Don't use Doe estrus directly on your hunting clothes, put it on a strip of rag and insert in in you boot laces so that you can get rid of it if you need to.
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Damn, are deer attracted to bacon aromas? I've been spending all my spare cash to get rid of all human odors on me, my clothes, my teeth/mouth when I go deer hunting. And using all the known attractants, doe estrous, apple, buck urine liquids, drips, gels...you name it...to hide my smell. Now, if all I need to do is use bacon grease on my guns, clothes and eat bacon before I leave the house I'll be in seventh heaven. Eh, think I'll stick with the tried and true...same for the guns. I'd still have my first rifle (Schmidt-Rubin .30cal) if my Dad hadn't sold it...and didn't use engine oil with contaminants either. There must be a reason they say to throw out engine oil that is 6 months old even if you haven't driven 3,000 miles! And note you are using synthetic oils like Mobil One...wonder why they were invented? Ever try transmission fluid in your car's engine? The reverse? No?
Each lubricant has a specific purpose, good for some things not others. I think I'll just play it safe and spend a few extra bucks to make sure that the few guns that I have last me through the next disaster and I can pass them down to my son for him to do the same.
*As a side note*
One of my teachers in HS did.....once a year. He drained the oil from his 1976 Datsun pick-up and replaced it with ATF. He then cranked it and let it idle for 1/2 hour. He said the cleaning properties of the ATF kept build-up out of the engine. He then drained and refilled with regular non-detergent motor oil, ran it for a few minuted and then drained and refilled again. He said the extra cost of the oil once per year saved money in the long run. Might have been something to it....... He drove 120 miles round-trip every day to school and when I graduated, he was crowding 400,000 miles and had never had to crack open the engine for service work.
We had a fork-lift mechanic where I worked for many years that did the same thing with the fork-lifts and his own vehicles.
The biggest thing with lubricants is the proper application at the proper time and location based on usage/storage .........more than the oil itself.
JMHO,FWIW
http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/AmericanHandgunner/AHMA11/?page=36
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Pegleg,
Actually, never have put doe estrous on my clothes, but have on the soles of my boots! A strip of cloth with estrous in the boot laces sounds a bit dangerous to me. I can picture a raging buck in the rut goring my groin trying to get at my boots! But my point really was with oil. Engine oil has additives (even recycled oil) that may be injurious to gun metal (especially the muzzle loaders I normally hunt with). Each type of oil uses different additives specific to the purpose intended, or so they claim anyway. So why do we think that ATF was used to clean a car engine? Why wasn't that engine kept clean with engine oil? Oil breakdown? As an aside, I had a 91 Honda Civic bought new and used as commute car (120 miles per day r/t) and donated it to Purple Heart after 11 years, still running (they drove it off) with regular oil changes every 7,000 miles. It had 346K miles on it and I attribute it to regular maintenance and quality construction. I will never use engine oil on my Sako Finnbear...never. Not even on my CVA Bobcat!
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To each his own..... everyone's mileage will vary........please don't take any of my previous comments as argumentative, as I am not picking at you..... just pointing out my own observations from 30 years of owning and shooting guns.
My late uncle who passed away in 2010 had a Remington 1100 16ga that he owned since the late 60's. He cleaned it with Hoppe's and lubed it with 30W motor oil. My son has it now and it still shoots fine, shows no noticeable wear, and still has the original rings and seals.
I'm not advocating that everyone run out and buy all the things on Bill's list for gun maintenance...... just saying that many "magic gun oils" are merely the same old tried and true lubes in fancier packaging with a higher price tag.
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Pegleg,
I take no offense and I don't think badly of those that use motor oil for their guns. I use Hoppes and RemOil for my centerfires, T/C water and BoreButter for my muzzle loaders (which are the sidelocks with older, softer barrels). And I don't feel the need to buy the latest and greatest formulae that is milspec, etc., because I don't believe they are necessary. I just don't feel comfortable using materials designed for other purposes on my precious few guns. Remember, here in the People's Republic of Maryland purchasing guns is not just a matter of having the money so keeping what you have is an imperative. Conservative? Yup! Obstreperous? Yup, so I apologize for that!
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Obstreperous?
Then you fit in just fine.......right here with most of the rest of us. ;D ;D ;D
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Obstreperous? Yup, so I apologize for that!
Never apologize, obfuscate! ;D
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I like fp10 as my go to lube and preservative, then at automotive stores, sylglide, a silicone based lube, for heavy applications, like AR buffers, M1 rollers, and Brownells action magic, a molybednum derivative, very slick. I like Kroil, as a cleaner, preservative and 1st or 2nd cleaner for the bore. If your gun gets wet, Kroil is killer as a quick wipe to prevent rust.
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The biggest thing with lubricants is the proper application at the proper time and location based on usage/storage .........more than the oil itself.
JMHO,FWIW.
I agree 100%. I think far too much is made of the type of lubricant, rather than how, when, where, and how much is applied. A gun isn't that difficult of a piece of machinery to keep lubricated. Look at how many times a V-8 automobile engine revolves in it's lifetime. The number is staggering, especially when compared to say how many times an AR-15 rife cycles at over .30 cents a round.
Also when comparing the 2, look at the temperature and load factor the engine is under. The lubricant has to perform from Winter start ups that can be as low as below zero, and in 10 minutes that same engine is running at almost the boiling point. A firearm comes nowhere near to those extreme operational parameters. Yes, automobile engines have a pressure oiling system built into them where a gun does not. But in all of my years involved in the shooting sports, I can never recall shooting a properly lubricated weapon until it was "dry".
I think the biggest drawback to these "gun oils", is two fold. One is cost, and the other is the so called added benefits that are received from those costs. If you do a volume VS. cost comparision on some of these products, you'll be astonished at the price mark up on them. For example, some of these "gun greases" that come in these fancy hypo type applicators with a gold foil label can run as much as $10.00 for a 1/4 ounce tube. If you price that out to a 5 gallon pail, it would run well over $10,000.00 dollars! I highly doubt one would receive that much added benefit from their use.
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I have used Lubraplate for years and never looked back. Tried the "Designer" stuff and works well but costs way more than what I prefer.
FWIW
Richard
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Good article on lubes.
In the chemicals industry we used a lot of high tech stuff for severe duties but teflon seemed to always answer for corrosion resistance and temperature extremes. Like the void filling idea with Teflon beads and if you can get them to adhere to the surface it is a poor mans duracoat in theory. So I tried the Tetra lubes with Teflon since they had them at my local gun store. They were OK but not special IMO. I do not believe that teflon, even though contains chlorine, is a cause of stress crack corrosion. Let me know if someone has data on that.
Since then I have tried the Wilson grease and the Brian Enos Slide Glide. I like the slide glide the best as it reminds me of the red lube I used as a kid on my HO race cars! The smell takes me back. Could actually be the same stuff. It is tacky and stays put with a nice film. Does give better slippery feel to the operation.
I am not excited about the cost thing as I have about $20 bucks into lube even with testing things and it will last me for years. Not disagreeing with the other options. I am still using some 20 year old Hoppes gun oil as general lube in my shop.
I agree with the point that over lubing is the biggest issue. I have learned to apply generously and then wipe most off after cycling the action. I use a Qtip to push it down into the crevases and get most excess out. I tend try a new gun with too much lube and look for where it actually needs to be lubed.
I don't tend to clean my guns within an inch of their lives like some with the aggressive solvents as this pulls off any film I have laid on. Mostly use CLP and resort to brake cleaner if I really need to scrub a gun for maintenance.
Real impressed with Butchs bore solvent for getting copper fouling out about twice a year. Don't see as much fouling if I do it more often and don't think it improves function all that much as I am to a benchrest OCD type.
Regards,
Joe