The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: tstand on October 24, 2012, 01:23:46 PM
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I'm considering the purchase of a handgun for my wife. It would not be concealed carry, but probably stored safely in a quick access safe at home. We would use it for target shooting and also a gun she could access if necessary. I already have a 12 gauge mossberg and a 9mm high point carbine and I am comfortable with both of them but she is not. I want her to be absolutely comfortable with whatever we get and enjoy shooting it and build experience level.
After looking around and considering possible uses, I think it would be good to have a 22 since she is not an experienced shooter. We have both fired a Browning Buckmark and liked it a lot. it has absolutely no recoil and a wonderful grip. However, I would prefer to get something that could be accessorized with a laser sight now, and a suppressor possibly later. It does not look like the Buckmark can be easily setup for either a laser or suppressor. However, there is a Ruger Mark III variant that comes with a threaded barrel and the new S&W M&P 22 can be adapted for a suppressor, and both can be fitted with a Crimson Trace laser grip. The M&P 22 is also nice because it can serve as a trainer for a 9mm later.
I can rent a Ruger at several ranges, but I can't rent an M&P 22 anywhere near me. I've fired the M&P 9mm and like the grip well enough.
First question, am I missing anything in my considerations of a first handgun for my wife?
Second, I'm wondering if anyone has fired a M&P 22 and could compare the experience to a Buckmark or Ruger?
Thanks! :D
Terry
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Tactical Solutions is the place to go for everything BuckMark.
http://www.tacticalsol.com/tshome/trail-lite-barrel-upgrade-for-the-browning-buck-mark-pistol
One thing to be aware of, with the BuckMark you can buy just the barrel, with the Ruger the Barrel is part of the upper reciever, which is the serial numbered part, so replacing a barrel is the same paperwork as buying another gun.
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If you get your wife a .38 or even .357 (shoots 38s too) revolver- the recoil is only a little more than a .22 and it's a much bigger round for the whole self-defense thing. If she's new and maybe won't shoot that much a revolver would be easier for her to handle.
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Jay, I think he posted before that his wife has medical problems that rule out heavier calibers.
Might try an FN 5.7 though.
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The Ruger 22/45 with a composite frame is lighter than the steel framed guns. It comes in a threaded barrel version and a lightweight too, and it has a nice grip angle. http://www.ruger.com/products/2245ThreadedBarrel/models.html I like the one without rails.
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Oops...sorry...I saw that before and forgot who had started that conversation. Knowing that your wife might have difficulty with a revolver, I'm thinking that your idea about the M&P 22 is good. Never had a .22, but my M&P9 is one of the nicer shooting and easy operating 9s I've handled, so starting with the 22 and possibly transitioning to the 9 makes sense.
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Something else to think, she may have a hard tine racking a slide. some of those springs are stiff. if she can handle a rifle, a 22 rifle is much better choice then a 22 pistol.
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Really good points, folks. I'm now thinking of the 22/45 vs the M&P 22.
Hadn't thought about how hard it is to pull/rack the slide. We'll need to make a trip to a range to try that part of it.
Also open to a rifle (my personal preference), but thought my wife might like a pistol better. We can fire a couple of rifles, too, such as the sig 522 which everyone seems to love. Our local range does not have the M&P variant but they are probably good, too.
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Oops...sorry...I saw that before and forgot who had started that conversation. Knowing that your wife might have difficulty with a revolver, I'm thinking that your idea about the M&P 22 is good. Never had a .22, but my M&P9 is one of the nicer shooting and easy operating 9s I've handled, so starting with the 22 and possibly transitioning to the 9 makes sense.
I've shot the M&P 9mm several times and like it. Probably the only thing I like better so far is the Ruger SR9, but both are great.
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For ease of operation a .22 revolver wouldn't require racking a slide. While most of the better revolvers would be heavier, they also can fire a variety of ammo from CBs to HVs. Back on the down side, good ones are a lot more expensive than most autoloaders.
The Contour version of the Buckmark does have a "rail" on top. Not where most would mount a laser but it does allow easy mounting of optics.
Have you looked at the Beretta Neos? If your wife has smallish hands I think you'll find the Neos easier to grip. It too has lots of variations so don't just look at the rental one at the range.
Now my lecture on quality. Plinking and target shooting (heck any shooting) is a lot more fun if the gun will shoot to point of aim. Nothing is more frustrating for a shooter to do everything correctly and still miss. See if you can find accuracy tests on the various models before you buy. Gun Blast might be a good source.
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Really good points, folks. I'm now thinking of the 22/45 vs the M&P 22.
Hadn't thought about how hard it is to pull/rack the slide. We'll need to make a trip to a range to try that part of it.
Also open to a rifle (my personal preference), but thought my wife might like a pistol better. We can fire a couple of rifles, too, such as the sig 522 which everyone seems to love. Our local range does not have the M&P variant but they are probably good, too.
Rugers dont need to be too heavy, I lightened mine substantially by changing the barrel over to a tac sol sone
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I would go with the S&W 22 to bolster transition/training with the M&P 9. I have a Ruger, S&W, Buckmark, Walther, and Sig Mosquito 22 handguns. The S&W has a much better trigger than Walther or Sig side by side...no comparison.
The S&W has controls like and feels like a centerfire handgun more than a Ruger or Buckmark. You will need to decide if you want a primary plinker/hunter or a training gun. Thw S&W will not be able to support scopes and upgrades like the Ruger and Buckmark to enhance plinking/hunting. I would choose the Ruger for a hunter and Buckmark more as a plinker. However, I have used the Buckmark successfully for hunting as the #2 hunting choice.....the S&W would trail as #3 though you may put a dot sight on the rear and enhance it. The dot sight would also enahance personal defense use/training especially if your centerfire defense weapon has a dot sight.
If you want something to train with and to save money with when training and that will absolutely transition to the M&P 9 or other centefire handguns (I carry a Ruger SR9 and M&P 9 or 45) then it must be the S&W M&P 22.
Just my 2 cents. Can't even by a Fireball for 2 cents these days.....
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tstand,
I'm considering the 22-45 Lite for both me and my wife, but Tom's suggestion re the FNH five-seven is spot on! If you can find one, try it out. But, be warned, on the FN: ammo is not cheap and some gun clubs (like mine) won't let you fire the five-seven pistol at the range (even though they'll let me fire the five-seven carbine...go figure).
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My range won't allow the FN five-seven. The reason is that the round penetrates our backstop...goes right through some hefty steel. If you're thinking of it for HD it might not be that great of a choice. It'll go right through walls.
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Any thing will go right thru a wall. from a 22 short cb cap to a 50 bmg.
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Depends on the wall TAB.
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Sure anything will go through a wall, but most calibers have rounds like frang or expanding that will mitigate some of that. The five-seven is such a high velocity, needle-like little thing, I'm not sure they have much in the way of "slow it down" ammo.
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Look at the box of truth and their high volicty light wiegth rounds vs sheet rock. long story short then tend to go way off track.
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I would go with the S&W 22 to bolster transition/training with the M&P 9. I have a Ruger, S&W, Buckmark, Walther, and Sig Mosquito 22 handguns. The S&W has a much better trigger than Walther or Sig side by side...no comparison.
The S&W has controls like and feels like a centerfire handgun more than a Ruger or Buckmark. You will need to decide if you want a primary plinker/hunter or a training gun. Thw S&W will not be able to support scopes and upgrades like the Ruger and Buckmark to enhance plinking/hunting. I would choose the Ruger for a hunter and Buckmark more as a plinker. However, I have used the Buckmark successfully for hunting as the #2 hunting choice.....the S&W would trail as #3 though you may put a dot sight on the rear and enhance it. The dot sight would also enahance personal defense use/training especially if your centerfire defense weapon has a dot sight.
If you want something to train with and to save money with when training and that will absolutely transition to the M&P 9 or other centefire handguns (I carry a Ruger SR9 and M&P 9 or 45) then it must be the S&W M&P 22.
Just my 2 cents. Can't even by a Fireball for 2 cents these days.....
I don't think I can fire the S&W M&P 22 before purchase (maybe if I am serious they will let us try). Can you tell me what the experience is like firing the S&W versus the Buckmark?
Speaking for my myself, when I fire the buckmark, the recoil is so little I can hardly feel anything at all. The S&W is lighter, so I'm wondering what it is like. The only light 22 pistol I have fired is the Walter P22 and I hate it. The grip is tiny and it shakes a lot probably because it is so light (15 oz).
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tstand,
I'm considering the 22-45 Lite for both me and my wife, but Tom's suggestion re the FNH five-seven is spot on! If you can find one, try it out. But, be warned, on the FN: ammo is not cheap and some gun clubs (like mine) won't let you fire the five-seven pistol at the range (even though they'll let me fire the five-seven carbine...go figure).
The 5-7 is so expensive I would probably just spend more and get the P90 before the handgun. Budget is an issue so I would like to keep the pistol at $500 or less.
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I don't think I can fire the S&W M&P 22 before purchase (maybe if I am serious they will let us try). Can you tell me what the experience is like firing the S&W versus the Buckmark?
Speaking for my myself, when I fire the buckmark, the recoil is so little I can hardly feel anything at all. The S&W is lighter, so I'm wondering what it is like. The only light 22 pistol I have fired is the Walter P22 and I hate it. The grip is tiny and it shakes a lot probably because it is so light (15 oz).
I can't speak from experience with the S&W; I've only shot a P22 and a S&W revolver. However, I'm going to base my answer on my theoretical physics. The lighter the gun, the more recoil there will be given the same projectile, powder, etc. I believe the S&W, similar to the Walther, will be a little more. The target type pistols you're thinking about don't have whole slides that move. The Walther and S&W have slides that move like centerfire handguns. To me, this will lead to an increase in muzzle rise/felt recoil. That's good if you're wanting a training replicator for a larger gun. It's not good if you want to put all bullets through as little a whole as possible. Make sense? Hopefully, someone with real world experience can chime in.
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........................... Can you tell me what the experience is like firing the S&W versus the Buckmark?
Speaking for my myself, when I fire the buckmark, the recoil is so little I can hardly feel anything at all. The S&W is lighter, so I'm wondering what it is like. ..........................
There's no recoil to speak of because it's a 22LR. If there is more recoil, it is more than soaked up with the superior ergonomics of the S&W M&P grip. I would not factor that into my purchase at all...it's a non-factor.
The S&W has an honest to goodness trigger reset like a centerfire and a grip that mimics centerfires...the Buckmark is thinner and does not provide as good a grip. The Buckmark is harder to rack the "slide" on and has more failures to feed and jams...I have a Buckmark and a Challenger II (pre-cursor of better quality). I have not run them side by side to see if but I doubt the Buckmark trigger can ever keep up with the S&W M&P 22. I do know my Sig Mosquitoes and Walther trigger/action is terrible compared to the S&W for what that's worth. Again, I don't think the Buckmark trigger can keep up with the S&W...maybe it is as good as the S&W in lbs of trigger pull, but without the reset feel and I really don't think it can run as fast (to mimic centerfire).
I saw a post about the Five Seven from FNH. I have one of those too. It is the primary defense pistol at home for my wife because the polymer tip bullet has far less penetration through walls than ball 9MM, 40 or 45 (.223/5.56 55 grain is overall from tests seen safer than ball in the primary pistol rounds on the basis of overpenetration potential and the 5.7 is the same, but lighter and slower by 60% or so bullet). The 5.7 round is also effective on target. A woman can easily rack the slide on the Five Seven and put multiple shots downrange quickly with the 5.7 round. Regardless of caliber, you want to be able to put multiple accurate shots downrange so long as there is a threat because even though the threat may go away with one shot it might be after you are dead. Since if threatened you will put multiple shots downrange then I think the 5.7 is fine. If you have children at home the 5.7, in my opinion, is the self-defense round to have.....I want to minimize penetration to lessen the potential of exposure of family members to a self-defense response.
The 5.7 trigger is poor compared to other centerfires and clearly worse than the S&W 22LR. The safety is forward for the trigger finger rest to flip and go straight to the trigger....a feature I really like (but you have to train using the safety to keep from falling back to searching for the safety with your thumb). They generally go for $925 to $1,100 depending....about $600 to $750 overpriced for what you get but no one else builds a pistol in 5.7 that I know of. The 22LR cannot compete with the 5.7 as a self-defense round, as I see it, because of the energy the 5.7 delivers.
The 5.7 will not penetrate steel unless it is black tip AP ammo and I have not had the 28 grain aluminum core from FN penetrate steel either. The club I shoot at "bans" 5.7x28 from steel for everyone they don't know because of the AP. There is an irrational fear or failure to put brain in gear that excludes the 5.7 pistol range from .223/5.56 AR targets even though the 5.7 is the same diamter, lighter and far slower. Problem is that the AP is only available to LEO and they've been the ones caught doing what they know they should not have been doing....go figure...when they show up for training classes and bring the Five Seven they invariably bring AP ammo. If I could get AP I wouldn't use it for self defense because it will laser right through like the "ball" ammo it is which will have less effect on the threat.
I think, from your posts, that you might want to consider sitting down and writing down just exactly what your primary usage and expectations are. That may objectively help you get a clearer picture on what you need.
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Another idea, marlin years ago made a gun, that was called something like " camp rifle" anyways it came in 2 flavors 9mm that took speacil mags and 45 that took 1911 mags. they were fairly light wieght and did not kick. I have no idea what they are selling for now, but its an idea. my wifes goto def gun is a 30 carbine. Plenty of stoping power, lots of rounds and ez reload. she still does not like hand guns bigger then 22s. But the 30 carbine she can shoot like a champ.
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Tab, The 9mm Camp Carbine used the older S&W 69XX series magazines
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Hey TAB. You need to change that prologue thingey or whatever it's called. Your avatar isn't stuffing anything.
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Another idea, marlin years ago made a gun, that was called something like " camp rifle" anyways it came in 2 flavors 9mm that took speacil mags and 45 that took 1911 mags. they were fairly light wieght and did not kick. I have no idea what they are selling for now, but its an idea. my wifes goto def gun is a 30 carbine. Plenty of stoping power, lots of rounds and ez reload. she still does not like hand guns bigger then 22s. But the 30 carbine she can shoot like a champ.
I saw a pair of them in the local gun store about 3 years ago for $450
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That sounds like a steal tom.
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Any comments on the Sig/GSG 1911 22, compared with other models we are discussing?