The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: GeorgeCook on November 14, 2012, 09:36:05 PM
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Please take some time to listen. I don't think it will change any minds about him, but I hope you all will think about what he is saying.
Thanks!
-G
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Well said and well posted. Though Ron Paul was a failed candidate, it wasn't because of lack of trying. He simply spoke from his deep belief's and didn't pander to the masses.
He is the ideal of what we want our public officials to be on paper. We will miss you, Ron.
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Well said and well posted. Though Ron Paul was a failed candidate, it wasn't because of lack of trying. He simply spoke from his deep belief's and didn't pander to the masses.
He is the ideal of what we want our public officials to be on paper. We will miss you, Ron.
Dude, not "pandering to the masses" is why he was a failed candidate.
Only a phony would call him self a candidate and then alienate as many people as possible.
If he can't get votes it doesn't matter what he thinks.
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Congress isn't a government service one aspires to. It is a DESTINATION feeding trough of wealth, privilege, and arrogance that is worth anything to reach.
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Dude, not "pandering to the masses" is why he was a failed candidate.....
....If he can't get votes it doesn't matter what he thinks.
Tom,
I agree with the first sentence, but disagree, somewhat, with the last sentence to the extent the ideas he espouses matter. But I understand what you are saying that if a candidate can't get votes it doesn't matter how "right" they are- they can't get into office to put them into action.
I also think it says something about the electorate too. Sometimes the majority gets it wrong, really wrong. I am reminded what Goebbels is reported to have said when he was confronted with the death and suffering of the German people in the last days of WWII. Paraphrasing him he said, "I don't give a sh!t about them. They put us into power, no one forced them. Now they are getting their throats cut and they are getting what they voted for."
But it doesn't matter now. I hope the ideas he believes in is picked up by another candidate who is a more viable candidate.
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Dude, not "pandering to the masses" is why he was a failed candidate.
Only a phony would call him self a candidate and then alienate as many people as possible.
If he can't get votes it doesn't matter what he thinks.
I think your last statement is where I draw a point of contest. Getting "votes" means nothing in this system. If nothing can be learned by our political system it's that the masses vote how they " think" others will vote.
What "he" actually thinks and his willingness to say it is what I respect. He knows the game yet still speaks how he believes.
I am not suggesting his words aren't structured in such a way to gather positive views, as he speaks to an empty congressional floor, with fellow constitutionalists.
Aristotle had to speak to the walking masses ignoring him before 1 person stopped. Then 2 were stopped, then 3 etc.
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Dude, not "pandering to the masses" is why he was a failed candidate.
Only a phony would call him self a candidate and then alienate as many people as possible.
If he can't get votes it doesn't matter what he thinks.
The converse is depressingly and devastatingly true also.
If he CAN get votes, what he thinks is of critical importance...far to many times it is too late by the time we find out.
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No matter what the message, a politician has to deal with three perspectives in this country: the Democrats', the Republicans' and the fourth estate's. Ron Paul received the disapproval of all three. That is a non-starter. A politician is supposed to be someone who gets things done. By that definition we have very few politicians left! I'm sorry to see Ron Paul depart the scene, but depart he must. If one cannot "take over" either party, then his efforts, and those of the voters behind him, are futile. So being right, unfortunately, is no guarantee of success. We already see what happens when the Democrats and the fourth estate are united. No Republican (save a Petraeus) stands a chance in that environment. And we see how they deal with the Petraeus' of this world.
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That's only because Republicans and libertarians are a bunch of deluded assholes.
They have the stupid idea that politics is about "morals", "Principals" and other irrelevant crap.
It's about POWER.
And until the Conservatives learn that they will continue to be losers.
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That's only because Republicans and libertarians are a bunch of deluded assholes.
They have the stupid idea that politics is about "morals", "Principals" and other irrelevant crap.
It's about POWER.
And until the Conservatives learn that they will continue to be losers.
I won't surrender that part. I won't remake the party to look like the "winners" look. It's already one party.. What "we" don't do is communicate what we believe, and more importantly, WHY we believe it.
One further note is that I believe, vote fraud or not, we have lost the nation. We didn't fight, or simply make a new education system.. We have two generations now who've had their brains washed, rinsed and dried..
(Begin rant..
The few who had any sense, were home schooled or private schooled joined the military after 9/11.. Served with the gang bangers and have been through the sausage grinder under inept leadership in the White House who didn't know how to finish the damn job ever since..
End rant..)
If we want what we all say we want, we're gonna have to start over again from scratch, while there are still a few of us who still have half a lick of sense, and start educating our kids (or grandkids) in a school system that we make and pay for ourselves.. We don't need permission to do that.. We can start a school with $10 a month (while we still pay for the idiot mill) for every kid in attendance and teach it in a barn.
Much of what Paul said what correct.. He put "normal" conservatives to opposing him by sounding like he'd sell 3/4 of the Fleet because we don't need it to defend CONUS.. (Oh, sorry "NORTHCOM" now..) That and sounding like he didn't care who came across the borders, or from what direction..
One thing I'll give Paul credit for in this run is that he brought folks into the idea that participation in the process wouldn't be a bad idea..
(Begin rant..
I'm not thrilled that they were all potheads who didn't realize that he wasn't going to give out gold to everybody from his personal fortune, and they would have to earn it for themselves, the same way he did, but he did manage to open up some THC incrusted minds to the idea that it matters what happens up there.. Nor am I thrilled that these same folks both didn't realize that Paul will be just fine, no matter what happens, and that he wasn't offering them a safety net to keep on doing what they are doing in collecting welfare and smoking pot, simply because Paul wasn't adverse to legalizing pot..
(Not necessarily a "thinking" bunch..)
End rant..)
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There is no way I could listen to that guy for 48 minutes. I've heard too much from him already. The Republican Party is full of losers. He's one of the biggest.
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Congress isn't a government service one aspires to. It is a DESTINATION feeding trough of wealth, privilege, and arrogance that is worth anything to reach.
A great observation.
That's only because Republicans and libertarians are a bunch of deluded assholes.
They have the stupid idea that politics is about "morals", "Principals" and other irrelevant crap.
It's about POWER.
And until the Conservatives learn that they will continue to be losers.
I disagree with part concerning morals & principals, but I think maybe we're saying the same thing, that politics in a free and responsible nation really is about morals, principals, etc. However, preaching morals and principals will not get someone elected and we can all agree/disagree about why that is largely true today. But I do believe in a nation that we would love and in fact parts of which some of us do remember from our youth, morals and principals were an important part.
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A great observation.
I disagree with part concerning morals & principals, but I think maybe we're saying the same thing, that politics in a free and responsible nation really is about morals, principals, etc. However, preaching morals and principals will not get someone elected and we can all agree/disagree about why that is largely true today. But I do believe in a nation that we would love and in fact parts of which some of us do remember from our youth, morals and principals were an important part.
The basic mechanics of exercising power as laid out by Saul Alinsky will work regardless of spiritual belief, or lack there of.
"God" has no more place place in governing a nation than he does in repairing a car.
Principals also have no place in a purely mechanistic exercise of power beyond framing the objective .
Is your aim the benefit of the nation, or the enrichment of you and your cronies.
Until the "Right" wakes up to the fact that "politics" is no different than any other form of engineering, answering to specific rules and formula they will not even deserve to win.
The asinine belief in an "educated, thinking electorate" is as stupid as a civil engineer believing that bridges and buildings stay up because they want to.
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I have to go along with Tom here. He's right down to the bone. The Republicans have to let abortion and religion, among other things, out of their platform. They are going to have to learn from their mistakes of pushing pro life, like the Democrats did about pushing gun control. It's all risk and no reward. Neither has a place in a political platform unless you want to lose elections directly because of it. They need to stop trying to set a moral tone and let people decide for themselves.
Once you try to take choice off the table, it is going to work against you politically. Regardless if it's the choice of owning a gun, or the choice of getting an abortion. The Republicans need to realize that. It took the Democrats up until they had it shoved down their throats after the 1994 elections, and lost both Houses due to reaction by people after the passing of the Assault Weapons Ban by just 2 votes, before they relaxed their unwinnable position on gun control.
The Republicans have now lost 2 major Presidential elections to the biggest idiot ever elected in Presidential history. The dems did it by demonizing the Republicans, and creating a fictitious "War On Women", and make wealth evil and the people who possess it "out of touch" with "normal people". All the Republicans did was feed them all the ammo they needed. Once you convince women that someone is picking on them, regardless if it's imagined or not, you're done for. Romney didn't help with his "47%" remark either. The electorate has shifted in favor of government dependence, rather than self reliance. You will never be able to convince someone to work for something they think they're entitled to. Again, regardless if it's bull$h!t or not. They believe it, and that's all that matters. The Republicans have a lot of work to do. If it wasn't for the self reliant rural counties in this country, they would have lost the House as well.
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Neither party should have a "social policy".
That is not their job and none of their business.
The party that comes out and says "We don't give a crap what you do, our job is making sure the country is employment friendly and defended." will be the party that will start winning elections.