The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Ksail101 on April 27, 2008, 10:13:15 AM
-
I know this topic may be beat to death, but I want some opions cause I may have a different situation than others.
First off this is kinda a continuation for a Handgun topic which I asked about what revolver would be good for Cowbay action. I love the Ruger Vaquero, but I have never shot it. I got a couple great ideas about buying a used one and sending it to a smith and make it a 100% gun. So I would get the most bang for the buck in that respect. So now here is my problem with buying my first rifle. I have a glock and Kimber Desert Warrior and my collection is going to take a turn into a couple guns that I have wanted since I was knee high to a grasshopper. Cowboy Guns. But when it comes to Rifle\Carbine I have a few issues. So chime in. Let me know what you think.
On top of all this, I am not rich, nor do I really have any money, lol, but what I got I can make do, i have been wanting, or should I say, thinking about an AR-15, But I think I would be happier with a lever gun, for an all around good time. I dont know though But with the Lever gun I will just feel more fullfilled I think. I can do cowboy action, like I want. Regular 3 gun would be fun with the AR, but Cowboy shooting just seems like its a lot more laid back and just more about fun. What I want rightnow. Also I am such a cowboy at heart that the old lever gun would just be sooo cool. (I sit in my cowboy boots with my Kimber on my hip and watch westerns over and over) I cant believe I just copped to doing that.) I want to own land and have family that are all cowboys. I was just stuck being born in the city. (I think that makes me more cowboy that the movie reference,) ;D I have shot so many M-4's and 16's all that in Iraq and through my run in the Army. So I know I am really good with one, but I want to have fun and want to be able to look at my rifle and not have bad memories or what I have done with it, or one simalar should I say.
But what would you get the lever gun chambered in? I want bigger than .22. I would like to be able to have some power. I like .30-30 but you cant shoot that in Cowboy Action can you? dont they require a rifle in a handgun Cartridge or did I just make myself show how inexpienced I am and that is consider a handgun round.
Well thank you for reading this book. Give me your experience and knowledge.
-
Do not be uncomfortable about not knowing about a particular subject. I know absolutly NOTHING about competition, (except that it's better to hit THE TARGET ;D ) In YOUR particular situation I would get a Lever rifle chambered for the same caliber as the pistols, say for example .38/357 mag. That way you can use .38's for plinking and competition, and .357 for short range hunting. The terrain you hunt in and Cowboy action rules, may dictate some other caliber but that is the general way I would go. You want these guns for fun and nostalgia as well as practicle use, and for now your mind will connect an AR with "work" so go with the "cowboy gun" and enjoy.
From an "Old Marine" to a young Soldier, Thanks for taking care of business in Iraq.
-
If money is tight and you are worried about the availability of an AR, get a lower reciever for around $150. This is the serialized part so you can build it up from there if you ever feel the need. And go get that damn ol' lever gun already ;D
-
My advise is to buy both..... its the only way you will be truly happy with the decision.
-
Hey thats is a great idea about the .357. Earlier in the thread I posted before this about the revolver I asked that question if I would be backing myself into a cornor by getting a these firearms chamber in .45LC. Price and not having th option to use the .38 like I would with the .357 is a problem that I would foresee. But the ,45LC is all about cowboy.
Thank you so far those are good suggestions. The more input I have the easier it is for me. And the more I learn. So all the advice I can get I open to.
-
+1 to Tom's suggestion. Not bad if ya' had both either!
I went out to get an AR last year but almost pulled the trigger on a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun to compliment my Winchester Trapper and my 9422. Ended up getting an M1A Scout instead. Still want an AR and the Marlin!
-
Get both-- you can not have too many rifles!
Good Luck--remember the front sight is one in focus...
-
I suggest going to your local pawn shop and finding an old deer rifle. The pawn shops generally loan 10-25%. so offering 50% of the blue book should seal the deal. I recently went to Murfreesboro, TN for a friend's wedding and found a Marlin .44 and talked the guy down to $150!!! After shipping to an FFL in my home state, a new BSA scope, and sling I'm still under $250. I recommend you check out rangerguns.com for an AR. I built one 2 months ago for $560 that I used for comp. I am currently selling it on gunbroker.com for $1100 and already have a buyer. It will pay for my Marlin. In stead of looking just for what you want, sometimes it pays to shop around. Every gun in my safe has been paid for by a gun I knew I wouldn't keep.
-
Can understand the mystic of a good lever gun because I went out and got a Winchester when they closed the New Haven plant, but with a certain element threating an AWB it may not be a bad thing to get an AR-15 first. Because I doubt anything would happen to the lever guns.
The shops around here allow layaways. It always helps when a person doesn't have to throw down a ton of money all at once for a firearm.
If you're thinking for SASS I'd go with the .38/.357. Again I can understand the alure of a good .45, but ammo prices being what ammo prices are if you are trying to be cost effective it may be the way to. But that's just my plug nickle
-
I think I'm going to come down on the side of the lever gun for now...I think everybody in America needs an AR, if for no other reason than to make President Barack "God DAMN America!" Obama's job that much harder when he decides to confiscate them all. But for what you've outlined, a .38/.357 lever gun will work for self-defense, small game and cowboy action shooting. Hot shot cowboy competitors are using tricked out 1873 Winchester clones, but I really really like the classic 1892 Winchesters. I have an old Navy Arms/Puma .38/.357 that has been my go-to cowboy gun for years. An alternative is the Legacy 1892...reasonably prices...or the beautiful (and pricier) Chiappa guns imported by Cimarron. There's also the Marlin option, which I would choose if hunting were a primary consideration. The Marlins are tanks, and they excel with the heavy-bullet hot loads from people like Buffalo Bore Ammo and Cor-Bon Hunters. Used Marlin Cowboys in .38/.357 are out there at good prices; be careful you don't end up with one of their Cowboy Competitions that were .38 Special only.
I'm talking .38/.357 for lower ammo costs. My preference is the .44 Special/.44 Magnum guns — I have a Legacy carbine and a Marlin lever guns in that caliber. But you're talking about a substantial bump in ammo/component costs and a significant disadvantage in cowboy action shooting. Last big cowboy match I shot, I used .44 Special cowboy loads from Winchester — loads I routinely use in my Charter .44 snub — and several people mentioned that I was clearly shooting a CANNON! Go figure.
I've never been a big .45 Colt guy...to me, the caliber was always a less versatile .44...so I'm probably not the person to address that subject.
Michael B
-
Thanks I am working toward the lever gun for sure. From everyone here and people I have talked to I would be happier. I will get the AR as well and I may need to get it sooner than expected, but for this summer it will be all about the lever gun. Havent decided on the model so I could always go for the advice. I really like the .357\.38 idea and will most likely go with that this time. I would like a carbine length but if this is not smart please say so. I am not really going to do much long distance so 100\150yrd range is all I really will need. Well maybe I might be wrong dont know exactly how far they shoot out to in cowboy action. So your thoughts on brand and model are all great if you have more please continue.
I will in the future love a .44 mag 16" barrel carbine lever gun tho. So thanks Mr. Bane for saying something. I think I read an article from Sheriff Jim Wilson who talked about carrying one like this as his carbine on the job. I wish I could remember the article and will look for it and give the details about it. So yes that is my dream lever. But I am looking for quality, one time buy gun, and keeping cost down on bullets so I can shoot it now. Maybe in a couple years when i have a little more money, hopefully , I will look to this. But for now the .357 will do.
-
Ksail, You can't go wrong with a 92 replica lever gun in .357 You might want to check out The "Race Ready " rifles that Nate Kiowa Jones sells, They have already been slicked up and will work EVERY time. Check out his website I think You'll be happy with one of his rifles
http://stevesgunz.com/
-
Pump action rifles are neat to just to complicate things.
-
Get the one that gives you the biggest woodie. Every time I go gun shopping with a couple of things in mind that really light me up, but I come home with something that I "logically" decided would be good, I'm always a little sorry I didn't get the one that made me giggle.
Get the one that excites you the most.
-
Ksail,
Here are my two cents after shooting Cowboy for about six years and owning a Marlin, Model 92 and a model 66. I would choose the Marlin in .357 magnum in a rifle not a carbine. The Marlin is quick and can be slicked up nicely. The 92 can be slicked up but it is hard to run it fast in a cowboy match no matter how well it is slicked up. The model 66's and 73's are typically the fastest but about $1000 dollars or a little more when slicked up and race ready and not the best choice for a gun for hunting compared to the Marlin with a modern safety and a much safer bolt locking mechanism for heavy hunting loads. Also be careful if you buy a Marlin .357 to load .357 cases for it if you handload. You can load them down a little for cowboy shooting, but if you try to shoot .38 specials in it thy tend to have feeding issues because the cases are shorter. I definitely agree to get the rifle and revolvers in the same caliber, as this makes your life much easier at the loading table. Also be sure and get the lever cam rounded so as not to fall victim to the dreaded Marlin jam (been there done that!) The Marlin cam on the lever is sharp and over time it will wear a groove in the lifter (or carrier) in the action of the gun and eventually it sticks in the groove it created when you are shooting, and jams the gun. This is easily fixed by simply removing the lever and slightly rounding the cam with a stone to avoid this issue. If the gun is new do this or have it done before you shoot the gun. Also if you are a little hesitant to buy an AR for cost and memory reasons consider a Ruger Mini 14 as they are cheaper and still fun to shoot. Now before everyone drops a bomb on me I am not comparing an AR to a Mini-14, I know the accuracy and quality are very different but it is an acceptable alternative that may allow you to afford both and not have to worry about the bad memories associated with the AR. Also it gets you a dreaded "Black" rifle before the rapidly liberalizing govt. tries to take them away. By the way thank you for your service to our country. God Bless you for putting on the uniform, picking up a rifle and standing between us citizens and the terrorists who threaten our land and way of life. Thank you. Good luck with your decision! Hope some of this helped!
Wheelgun
-
Darn, Wheelgun...I wish you were wrong! All of us are sweating the November Apocalypse...that's why I'm backing McCain...as Kim du Toit said, "I love my country more than I hate McCain..."
That said, Jay says it best...they're all good...get the one you like. And I'd like to come down 100% on having Steve's Gunz slick up your lever gun. Steve Young is a master of the lever gun. I shot one of Steve's '92s in cowboy competition, and yes, it's not as fast as some of the trick guns, but I like it. Steve also did my Legacy .44 for the upcoming Wild Bunch match...you can see photos on my blog.
Michael B
-
My recommendation would be to purchase the AR and it's based solely on the potential political climate.
If any type of restrictions or ban goes into effect, Lever actions rifles will most likely be left out of any legislation. You will most likely still be able to purchase a Lever action rifle for a reasonable price regardless of the political climate.
AR rifles on the other hand are one of the primary targets for anti-gun legislation. I would run out today and start looking for one. As the election gets closer, there will be a lot of panic buying that will drive up the prices and if Obama does win the election, the panic will continue regardless of whether or not there is any real potential for anti-gun legislation to be enacted.
I would buy a rifle now and work to buy another couple of stripped receivers to put in the safe for a "rainy" day. Even if you need to sell the rifle in the future for financial reasons, you'll most likely get your money out of the rifle and quite possibly get more than you paid, but only if you purchase now before the panic starts.
Along with that, I would also recommend that you start laying in a good supply of hi-cap magazines. Prices are dirt cheap right now, but that can/will change quickly. My philosophy is quite simple....but the mags, the gun will come. I have bunches of magazines for guns I don't even own, but, have considered purchasing sometime in the future. Anybody remember the days of $150 for a glock mag? (currently running about $19 per mag.) I do, and I'm not going to get caught like that again.
USSA-1
-
Upon the eve of great disruption of the two things I hold close and fought for (this country and our right to bare arms), I have chose to buy an AR before November. I am going with a Rock River product most likely. I have not decided upon a model but I am looking at an "m- forgery." That is what I trained with and what I am used to. As to the memories it may bring up upon looking at it, will be something for me to tackle and try and work through. It is not so much all the bad memories, as it is the loss of the camaraderie and love I felt from my brethren that I have not ever felt again since. I wish at times that all men\women would be forced, at the age of 18, to enlist for two years serving our country. Weather that means Military, Police force (of some kind), or a community service. I wish all could feel that feeling of being with your boys when you got no-one else and all the petty things of the world don't matter, such as politics, drama, and always famous, one man is better than the other somehow problem the world seems to have. No I am talking about all that mattering is life and making it back to somewhere that you love and willing to do whatever to help the person next to you cause you know he is doing the same. It is hard for me rightnow in this country that I fought for. No job worth a damn, everyone here where I live seems to be divided weather it is the Prez. campaign or on down to the color of your skin, in some cases. There is no cohesion. Along with these thoughts I will have a whole lot of fun with friends and family wasting rounds down range, and possibly saving my life. And yes for me, a rifle can bring upon all these thoughts. And yet I may be denied in a year or less to purchase one. So as for my cowboy action dreams and my thoughts of being called some cool name as "Lead Dispenser" or " Two Guns Sailand," as I so may be named, must be put on hold till a later date. This summers blood, sweat, and tears will be towards that High Tech Rifle of my dreams. I am not down at all, in fact I am excited to finally have a decision, I just wish I could have had more of a say in it, but times are going to get tough as I believe along with everyone else so this is what I must do. I thank everyone's input into all this and it has all been great. I now know the type of lever gun and wheel gun I will buy someday and now know what my next firearm will be. So while I am throwin' brass all over in my semi auto I will be thinking about our country and the Men I fought with. Thank you all.
-
My recommendation would be to purchase the AR and it's based solely on the potential political climate.............
This is where I come down. If it disturbs you, leave it in the box a while; as it seems from your thread you are bravely coming to grips with the past loss in your life. You've said a lot and I appreciate your sacrifice.
I'm going to say you are an honest man and go the extra mile. Private message me your name and address and come this weekend I'll put up the first $100 towards that lever you want in the mail.
-
Hey Rastus- I wrote you on the PM. Thank you that truely means alot, but there is no way I could ever accept that from you. Although it is one of the nicest gestures anyone has put forth to me, I just would never feel right taking someone elses money. I will work for it. Though it may take me till next year, I will get it. I dont need the rifle, I want it. There are other things in this world that could warrent your 100 dollars. Its your personal money. Thank you, and like I wrote to you in your PM these words I write in no way express my gratitude and really shows that people in this lifestyle truely are worth fighting for. -Ksail
-
Guys, I say this man is worthy and has earned more than he knows.
-
Guys, I say this man is worthy and has earned more than he knows.
He needs a lever in .44 mag with a good Ruger to go with it.
-
He needs a lever in .44 mag with a good Ruger to go with it.
Haz and I are in $$$. Anybody else want to help this young warrior get his heart's desire? I say we need to pitch in so he can have one by the 4th of July. What say you?
-
Really guys its ok. I will get one in due time. I appreciate it more than you know. But it will all work out in the end.
-
Really guys its ok. I will get one in due time. I appreciate it more than you know. But it will all work out in the end.
You've more than earned it just by not killing an MSM reporter.
-
Waiting periods. They just aren't right. Are they? ;)
-
Waiting periods. They just aren't right. Are they? ;)
NH hasn't had one since NICS went into effect, But I lived in CA 98-2000 , Yes, waiting stinks.
-
No waiting period in Florida with a Concealed Carry License. 5 days without on all firearms purchases (Palm Beach County)
-
Currie it is by county here in FL.
Actually I don't know how P Beach gets away with 5 days. I know the State law says 3 for handguns and none for long guns BUT allows the counties to decide on long guns. I did think it capped waiting periods at three though.
Here is the law. Actually the state does not require a wait period on any fire arm but gives the option for 3 days to the counties.
790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.--
(1) PREEMPTION.--Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.
(2) LIMITED EXCEPTION; COUNTY WAITING-PERIOD ORDINANCES.--
(a) Any county may have the option to adopt a waiting-period ordinance requiring a waiting period of up to, but not to exceed, 3 working days between the purchase and delivery of a handgun. For purposes of this subsection, "purchase" means payment of deposit, payment in full, or notification of intent to purchase. Adoption of a waiting-period ordinance, by any county, shall require a majority vote of the county commission on votes on waiting-period ordinances. This exception is limited solely to individual counties and is limited to the provisions and restrictions contained in this subsection.
-
You guys dont even want me to get started on a waiting periods. I am "waiting" LOL.
If have an anxiety attack and not make it till Wensday bury me with it. (With a box of ammo)
But make sure you get everyone on here to shoot it first. So I can say I shot with you all. ;D ;D ;D
-
You guys dont even want me to get started on a waiting periods. I am "waiting" LOL.
If have an anxiety attack and not make it till Wensday bury me with it. (With a box of ammo)
But make sure you get everyone on here to shoot it first. So I can say I shot with you all. ;D ;D ;D
Bet time hasn't passed so slowly since you were a kid waiting on Christmas! ;D
-
I got it today. i just picked it up. They told me wensday yesterday. I got it!!!!!! Whooohoooo!!! ; ;D ;D ;D
-
I got it today. i just picked it up. They told me wensday yesterday. I got it!!!!!! Whooohoooo!!! ; ;D ;D ;D
Pictures Dude!! We need pictures!!
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Guns/youforgottopostpicturesofyourweapon.jpg)
-
Well Haz I will put pictures up tonight after I call you again. LOL. Cause I dont know how to do that. I dont have a photo bucket account. But I suppose everyone deserves some pics of this beautiful Lever Gun
-
Well Haz I will put pictures up tonight after I call you again. LOL. Cause I dont know how to do that. I dont have a photo bucket account. But I suppose everyone deserves some pics of this beautiful Lever Gun
Heh, heh, heh,....email 'em to Haz...maybe he can put them up. ;)
I can't get pictures posted either...can't expect someone so excited as you to figure it out right now...now can you?
-
You guys dont even want me to get started on a waiting periods. I am "waiting" LOL.
If have an anxiety attack and not make it till Wensday bury me with it. (With a box of ammo)
But make sure you get everyone on here to shoot it first. So I can say I shot with you all. ;D ;D ;D
It would be an honor to shoot with you anytime, anywhere ;D
Heh, heh, heh,....email 'em to Haz...maybe he can put them up. ;)
I can't get pictures posted either...can't expect someone so excited as you to figure it out right now...now can you?
I'm impressed that he can type.
-
Rastus- are you kidding me. I cant put the rifle down to take the pictures. And I was hoping to have Haz put them up when ever I let go of the thing. Its pretty bad that I ate dinner with it at the table with me.
Also I wish I could somehow just get the writing on the paper work for it. It looks like I was driving off-road while trying to sign my name. ;D
-
Rastus- are you kidding me. I cant put the rifle down to take the pictures. And I was hoping to have Haz put them up when ever I let go of the thing. Its pretty bad that I ate dinner with it at the table with me.
Also I wish I could somehow just get the writing on the paper work for it. It looks like I was driving off-road while trying to sign my name. ;D
I know what you are going through, the first few nights I had my StG-2000 before I went to bed I leaned it against the wall so that when my eyes opened it was the first thing I focused on ;D Would have slept with it but I had enough of that in Boot camp ;D
-
Be sure to dry fire her to your hearts content, to mate all those surfaces and slick her up old school, um, a little bit of lube, won't hurt, ;D
-
Just make sure it's unloaded if your going to sleep with it...the gun I mean ;D
-
Congratulations Ksail! I'm sure pics will post when they can,... like ASAP! I'd love to see some lever action porn...
BUT there's still time to build an AR before Nov. 8)
Enjoy your new rifle, I fondled my last new rifle till the wife said STOP, and offered another option ;)
Coastal NC has no waiting period, and with my CCW permit, its like a drive-thru order, pay, walk out with it.